nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to ilikeme
Re: Is this breaker panel safe?
Buying your own materials to save money doesn't work for everyone. I hate it. I have 0% markup. They customer pays my wholesale price + taxes + fuel, which almost always ends up being cheaper than home depot or lowe's (plus I'll show up with the RIGHT stuff).
FWIW, most contractors DO NOT like the b.y.o. materials because it is inconvenient and there is ALWAYS something extra required to do the job.
I know there are some contractors out there who have an extensive markup. Weed them out. Don't hire them.
P.S. - Square-D is overpriced junk.
Eaton (Cutler Hammer), Siemens (Murray), or G.E.
Just to chime in on the Stab-Lok panel - many (not all) AHJ's require their removal pre-occupancy or if any new work is done (adding circuits, repairs, etc...). Even if they do not require it, the general consensus is to get rid of them.
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Kibbles
Premium
join:1999-07-31
Mission Viejo, CA
| reply to ilikeme
Check to see if there are any class action lawsuits.
I have been working around those types of breakers for 23+ years and have seen only breaker explode...and it was not a FP breaker.
»www.greatinspector.com/faq-elec-···cif.html
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Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to whizkid3
I'm with whizkid on this one - you may be able to save yourself some money if you find a distributor and buy all the box/breakers yourself and get an electrician to do the install - my local neighbourhood electrician has a habit of charging a low hourly rate but a 100% markup on all equipment they provide. (I won't mention that's a family member).
HD and Lowes sell "contractor pack" type main panels - you can buy a 200A panel with a full complement of 120V and 240V breakers for somewhere around $200 (prices may vary by geography of course). Your existing panel is a 200A panel -- you would probably want to have a new 200A panel as well, even if your main is 125 - simply because if you ever want to upgrade to 200A in the future, the panel is sufficient and wouldn't need to be attended to again.
If you also pick up a roll of 12-2 and 14-2 and have them sitting around handy for the electrician (75' rolls would be plenty) for $30 or $40 ea, you'll have spent around $280 for your equipment, and you should be able to get the wiring guy in to do the 'swap' for around $500 (one day of work - I typically do a full service panel replace in about 4 hours).
If I had to pick a brand I'd send you after QO/SquareD. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
 ·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to ilikeme
said by ilikeme  :I have a feeling that the panel will not pass inspection when the house is sold. I'm probably going to have an electrician come out and at least inspect the panel soon. The panel probably will pass an inspection. There are no code requirements to remove it that I know of. Rather than have an electrician inspect the panel, save your money, and have it replaced. |
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lmacmil
join:2001-01-26
South Bend, IN
| reply to ilikeme
said by ilikeme :The house was built in 1977 and has not been updated much. I took a look at the breaker panels, and found that they are Federal Pacific, which I have heard has had some safety issues. My house was built in 1970, also with a FP panel. When we had our central air unit replaced in 2004, the A/C contractor recommended replacing the panel because it was made by FP. Although we never had an issue (at least never aware of an issue), we had it done a couple months later. The cost was about $750 and the meter did not need to be replaced. |
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ilikeme
I live in a van down by the river.
Premium
join:2002-08-27
Houston, TX
clubs: 
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to nunya
said by nunya :IMPO: No. Stab-Lok panels have a reputation for (1) not tripping (2) arcing + burning the bus due to the breaker attachment configuration. I personally will not service them (add or replace breakers) due to liability issues. I rip them out. I put stab-lok's in the same category as Zinsco (GTE / Sylvania) and Bulldog Push-matic. Dumpster liner. I'm also concerned with the "stuff" on the main breaker. What is that? Has it been wet? 125A is probably more than enough as long as you do not have high draw combination of electric heat, electric range, electric hot water, electric hot tub, etc.. An electrician should do a load calculation before replacing the panel (just to be sure) My question is what the hell kind of air conditioner needs a 60A breaker? That would be approx. a six ton unit! Have the electrician check that when he replaces the panel. I think the main breaker is that way because it is in the back corner of the separate garage and has not been touched in a very long time. I find it odd that it does not have any sort of cover over it.
About the 60A breaker, I thought that seemed kind of high myself. It seems like there are too many high amperage breakers in there judging by whats in the house. The heating is centeral gas, so there are no electric floorboard heaters.
I have a feeling that the panel will not pass inspection when the house is sold. I'm probably going to have an electrician come out and at least inspect the panel soon.
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to nunya
said by nunya :My question is what the hell kind of air conditioner needs a 60A breaker? One with say a 12 or so Kw heatstrip that was scabbed in on a Saturday permit utilizing a single 240 circuit for the a/c unit. 
Wayne
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to ilikeme
IMPO: No.
Stab-Lok panels have a reputation for (1) not tripping
(2) arcing + burning the bus due to the breaker attachment configuration.
I personally will not service them (add or replace breakers) due to liability issues. I rip them out. I put stab-lok's in the same category as Zinsco (GTE / Sylvania) and Bulldog Push-matic. Dumpster liner.
I'm also concerned with the "stuff" on the main breaker. What is that? Has it been wet?
125A is probably more than enough as long as you do not have high draw combination of electric heat, electric range, electric hot water, electric hot tub, etc..
An electrician should do a load calculation before replacing the panel (just to be sure)
My question is what the hell kind of air conditioner needs a 60A breaker? That would be approx. a six ton unit! Have the electrician check that when he replaces the panel.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to K Patterson
said by K Patterson :My logic was that you could get away with a panel board change out, but not with an increase in the service amps. One ought to pull a permit and get an inspection for either. Good point ("ought to pull a permit"). We should be discussing the proper way to do things, not what people can 'get away with'. |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | reply to whizkid3
My logic was that you could get away with a panel board change out, but not with an increase in the service amps.
One ought to pull a permit and get an inspection for either. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
3 edits | reply to K Patterson
said by K Patterson :The cost may be a little more than that. The service entry conductors and the meter will need to be changed. In most jurisdictions that means a permit and an inspection by the city or county. That was the 'cost differential'. The meter may or may not have to be changed (same goes for the meter pan which is something you pay for). The permit & inspection fee does not enter into the cost differential, as you most likely need one in almost all jurisdictions, regardless of whether is it just a panelboard swap, or a service upgrade. (Including Houston, Texas.)
The cost differential I quoted is simply a fair range. Yes it could be more. It could be zero. It could be $1000 more. Depends on the contractor's pricing. |
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KirkyInCT
join:2008-11-04
Higganum, CT
1 edit | reply to K Patterson
said by K Patterson :The cost may be a little more than that. The service entry conductors and the meter will need to be changed. In most jurisdictions that means a permit and an inspection by the city or county. In any jurisdiction I've been in ALL electrical work requires a permit and inspection. This goes for something as simple as adding a circuit to a service upgrade and everything in between. In my towns, the only difference is the cost of the permit, which is often based on the total cost of the job and is usually goes up on increments of every $1000 of dollars in the total cost.
In this case, I would get it all done at once, save everyone some time, as whizkid pointed out, it's only a couple hundred more in terms of parts and maybe an hour or two in labor. BUT, 125amps is probably enough.
But you do point out, most people probably wouldn't even pull a permit for something like this. I'm sure it will be part of the estimate(s), but I'm not so sure it would actually get done. |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | reply to whizkid3
The cost may be a little more than that. The service entry conductors and the meter will need to be changed. In most jurisdictions that means a permit and an inspection by the city or county. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to ilikeme
Many Federal Pacific 'Stab-Lok" breaker panels and breakers work fine. However, there has been a much, much higher than normal incidence of these breakers failing to trip overloads, resulting in house fires. For that reason they are considered a fire hazard. I recommend replacement of the panel.
I doubt you'll have a load issue. You don't have any unusual high electric load requirements (i.e. electric heat, hot tub, multiple electric ovens, etc.) On the other hand, if you do replace the panel (and it is recommended), you can consider at that time to increase the size of the service from 125A to perhaps 200A. The cost differential will probably be $200 - $300. |
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zen1
@optonline.net | reply to ilikeme
change it out as soon as possible! there's too great a risk of fire!!. |
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Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
clubs:
·Optimum Online
1 edit | reply to ilikeme
I concur... FPE Panels/Breakers may pose a potential hazard... 
See Here for more info: »www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
-Tursiops_G.
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If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway. |
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to ilikeme
said by ilikeme : What I am wondering is, do I need to worry about it with the higher load that I am going to be using? My friend and I will be using, in addition to what she has used, 2 TV's, computers, large stereo equipment, and more lights. The load is not your problem. FPE breakers are well known for not tripping when a short circuit occurs.
If you ever plug in a defective appliance, or have an accidental short, the house wiring will probably burn up without the breaker tripping.
If that is a problem, consider replacing the panel. |
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ilikeme
I live in a van down by the river.
Premium
join:2002-08-27
Houston, TX
clubs:
·Comcast
|  My Grandmother has moved out of her house, and now I am living in it. The house was built in 1977 and has not been updated much. I took a look at the breaker panels, and found that they are Federal Pacific, which I have heard has had some safety issues. My Grandmother never really used a lot of power at the house, mainly lights, a/c, kitchen appliances, and a TV. What I am wondering is, do I need to worry about it with the higher load that I am going to be using? My friend and I will be using, in addition to what she has used, 2 TV's, computers, large stereo equipment, and more lights. Sorry for the picture quality, my digital camera is in for repair so I had to use my iPhone.
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