 koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | reply to Snakeoil
Re: Upverting DVD players vs Blue ray DVD players. For the endless argument:
DVD: 720x480, image aspect ratio of 4:3 or 16:9 (16:9 is anamorphic)
SDTV: 640x480i, pixel aspect ratio of 1:1
EDTV: 640x480p or 720x480p, same ratios as the two above
HDTV: 1280x720 or 1920x1080, both with a pixel aspect ratio of 1:1.
DVDs are nowhere near the resolution of even 720p. DVDs have 576,000 less pixels than 720, or only 38% of the resolution. |
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| So my question is with a 26" 720p LCD should I go upconverting or Blu-ray? |
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 HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | On a smaller set like yours and it being 720p vs 1080i/p, I say just get a "good" upconverting player. I know OPPO players are highly rated units, but they're pricier than your typical player and worse, only available via mail-order.
Another thing to keep in mind is your TV will "upconvert" also and some do better jobs than any DVD player. Be sure to look into that option and keep your receipt just in case.
Here's a thread from AVS on the same subject:
»www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···=1089623
^^ Is that you asking there too ? |
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| No that is not me. I'll have to check out if my TV upconverts first. If not I'll stick with the upconverting dvd player. |
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 NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
 ·Comcast
 ·Callcentric
| reply to slcpd6469
said by slcpd6469:So my question is with a 26" 720p LCD should I go upconverting or Blu-ray? Unless you have a 1080p LCD or Plasma, you should get an upverting DVD player. A standard DVD is still 480 and an upverted DVD will be fine for a 720p set. |
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 Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to nixen
said by nixen: I dunno: video tape technology had been around, in one form or another, since the mid-50s. Granted, that was mostly reel-to-reel technology, but the same vinyl tape with a magnetic coating was at the heart of it. Very Late 50's actually... anda again 20 lbs reels of 2" tape at $50-100 a pop and $50K 500 lbs machine to play them.
Yes there was half inch B&W reel to reel tape before the betamax... but just for camera there was no tuner of timer.
So yest Betamax was VERY much an original technoloty, vs again Blue Ray just being a refinement of along existing one.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | reply to slcpd6469
said by slcpd6469:I'll have to check out if my TV upconverts first. If not I'll stick with the upconverting dvd player. It upconverts, rest assured. LCDs have nativeresolutions that they run at. Whatever resolution you feed it, be it 480i, 480p, 1080i, or 1080p, your display converts it to 720p. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to nixen
said by nixen:Seriously? Over time, as technologies gain greater acceptance product - particularly media prices and production prices come down. Do you remember how much it used to cost to buy, say, a 5000CD-run of music versus how much that costs, today? Similar happened with DVDs. That's part of the technology lifecycle. Similar will happen to BluRay. It's inevitable. Agreed but as just a refinement that time is now... pretty much all the money is no object people have already bought them... everyone else is waiting for that shake out... VS when VCR, CD, and DVD's first came out... as NEW technology.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:said by Hayward: Still wouldn't buy a SONY. So, get a Samsung, or Pioneer, or Mitsubishi, or Panasonic, or... All this hate for Sony... better never use a CD or DVD drive ever again - Philips and Sony created them! Stop watching movies or TV friend - Sony is deep in them.  LOL! Duhhh... the movies and standard DVD drives are NOT PROPRITARY.... that was the point.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to koolman2
said by koolman2:SDTV: 640x480i, pixel aspect ratio of 1:1 EDTV: 640x480p or 720x480p, same ratios as the two above DVDs are nowhere near the resolution of even 720p. DVDs have 576,000 less pixels than 720, or only 38% of the resolution. Sorry but 64x480 is a COMPUTER resolution that APROXIMATES NTSC which is 400 lines(per inch) x 525.5 sacn lines vert.
ED is 720x480 640x480p is just progressive scaned SD.
And maybe just subjective but at typical viewing distance (not face scrunched up against screen hunting pixels) and up comnverted... a standard DVD made for a HD source is damn close to 720p HD. Again vs a DVD made from an old analog SD source. (like old TV shows and movies)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
1 edit | Yes, you are correct that NTSC has 525 scan lines in the US. However, only 486 of those lines are available for video. The rest are used to synchronize the display, contain closed captions, and a few other things. For all intents and purposes, the resolution of an analog NTSC transmission is 640x480, ± a few pixels.
The rest of your post is a matter of opinion, so I'll leave it alone except to say that I respectfully disagree. |
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| So, with a Samsung LN40A530P full HD 1080P 1 year old TV, "HD-Grade 1920 (H) x 1080 (V) pixel
resolution: High resolution pixel density
with built-in image scaler to handle
inputs from a variety of digital and
analog audio/video sources." there would be no advantage to buy an 'upconverting' DVD player - it would be redundant to the capability already built in the TV - right? |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:said by dadkins:said by Hayward: Still wouldn't buy a SONY. So, get a Samsung, or Pioneer, or Mitsubishi, or Panasonic, or... All this hate for Sony... better never use a CD or DVD drive ever again - Philips and Sony created them! Stop watching movies or TV friend - Sony is deep in them. LOL! Duhhh... the movies and standard DVD drives are NOT PROPRITARY.... that was the point. My Sonys use Panasonic drives.
I have movies on DVD *AND* Blu-ray from several different studios - what's your point? 
What is proprietary about them?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to boaterbob
said by boaterbob:So, with a Samsung LN40A530P full HD 1080P 1 year old TV, "HD-Grade 1920 (H) x 1080 (V) pixel resolution: High resolution pixel density with built-in image scaler to handle inputs from a variety of digital and analog audio/video sources." there would be no advantage to buy an 'upconverting' DVD player - it would be redundant to the capability already built in the TV - right? Yes and no.... personally, I have found my Toshiba DVD recorder does a better job of scaling/converting, than any of three sets, I have has connected to it. (two 720p's and now a 1080p)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to dadkins
Because SONY owns Blue Ray, and all others license the use... artifically raising prices of media, movies, and hardware, where is regular DBD, is a now open standard format.
This is what SONY did with BETAMAX... unfortunately this time around, the blodgeoned Toshiba out of the market, instead of JVC winning with VHS, they allowed anyone to manufacture, with reasonal licence fees.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by Hayward:Because SONY owns Blue Ray, and all others license the use... artifically raising prices of media, movies, and hardware, where is regular DBD, is a now open standard format. This is what SONY did with BETAMAX... unfortunately this time around, the blodgeoned Toshiba out of the market, instead of JVC winning with VHS, they allowed anyone to manufacture, with reasonal licence fees. ROFL!
BDA - look it up!
As for beating Toshiba... Sony, and the rest of the BDA, beat the snot out of Toshiba with minimal advertising, even though Toshiba was having weekly firesales *AND* paying off studios for exclusing movie rights.
Thanks Hayward! 
Please spell it right... Blu-ray.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
4 edits | reply to koolman2
said by koolman2:DVDs are nowhere near the resolution of even 720p. DVDs have 576,000 less pixels than 720, or only 38% of the resolution. UNSTRETCHED ones are if you consider the aspect ratio.
a 4:3 image easly has 500-600 pixels less horizantal coverage, but still 700 lines when from good DVD (not broadcast which is about 400 best)source.
So 1325-550 is 775... reasonably close to a 720p picture cropped that much, and a set that does decent scaling makes up for the vertical 200 line difference pretty well... so yes the comparison of SD from a good DVD source (like HD master) material is resonably close viewed at any distance from not just having you face stuffed in the screen.
Yes narrower picture but res, not all that different.
Certainly much less noticeable than 720p to 1080i/p
In fact 720p is one of the things still keeping me away from HD programing especially at added cost. When it is all at least 1080i, then I may finally go for it.
(And again the SD comparison at true 4:3 aspect ratio not stretched)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | DVDs have a maximum resolution of 720x480. Period. That is to say that they have 480 horizontal lines, like this:
________________________________________________________
720p has 720 lines. 480 != 720
DVDs only have 66% of the vertical resolution compared to 720p.
I have a 32" 720p LCD in my room. I sit 8' away from it. When I watch an HD program, it looks great. When I change the output resolution to 480p, it looks like crap. End of story. If you honestly think that upscaled 480p looks anywhere near 720p, you really, honestly, need to get your eyes checked. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
4 edits | said by koolman2:DVDs have a maximum resolution of 720x480. Period. That is to say that they have 480 horizontal lines, like this: ________________________________________________________ 720p has 720 lines. 480 != 720 DVDs only have 66% of the vertical resolution compared to 720p. No that is a HORIZONTAL you drew which again is 720 pixels wide (about what is cropped from the 1325 of 720p wide picture in the black side bars)
So once again horizontal res is near identical (just not as wide)
Actually true SD is about 501 lines with a 24.5 line vertical blanking interval... total 525.5 lines)
As to they actually clip it to 480 or just terminology convention not positive.
Now I have seen SD programing on HD channels side barred and looks very good... certainly FAR better than SD just converted by a TV. It is still a SD source they are getting to look that good, but then again networks have million dollar equipment budgets to do it.
As I have said before though on this thread and others, I run all my SD (at least S/Video) content through my DVD recorder because of 3 different 720 and 1080 HDTV's its been connected to. it does a BETTER job unpconverting than the sets themselves do....
So maybe its your equipment and not my eyes. Exactly the same NO, but horiz near identical and some good vert scaling darn near.
Again MUCH closer than 720p and 1080i/p are to each other, that is a glarring diference.
And again talking resolution NOT screen width (not stretched to 16:9), and also from HD mastered SD DVD ONLY where yoou are getting the full 720 H res, not any broadcast of cable source were again likely on the order of 400 lines H from an analog source, or bitrate throttling, even if on a digital channel labeled 720x480.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
1 edit | I don't know how else to explain it. Honestly, it's like you read part of my post, then go crazy thinking that I think something entirely different.
720p and 720x480 ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
I'm done here. There is only so much explaining that one guy can do in one thread. Why you brought up a thread 12 days after the last post is beyond me. |
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