 joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
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kudos:5
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2 edits | [Rant] Florida SunPass What monkey designed this system? This is the 21st century.
Here's a run-down:
1) Everything is done "offline"
2) When you refill your transponder, it needs to "download onto the transponder" (you need to drive through a toll booth) for the balance to reflect on your transponder, yet you call the 800 # (not remotely close to 24/7) and get the current real balance.
3) When you go through a toll it takes at least 24hrs for it to show up online.
4) When the account is refilled, even automatically, again it takes 24hrs to show up.
Today I drove all the way from Miami through the entire Florida Turnpike starting at the Sawgrass Expressway. When I get past Orlando the traffic is horrible, so I decide to get off at Leesburg. At this exit the northbound and southbound exit/entraces are 2 miles apart, so I get off on the first exit, go two miles (where the northbound entrance is) and can see the traffic seems ok so I get back on. The Sunpass beeps when I go to the toll booth but the gate does not open and I ended up having a heated discussion with the toll collector. I ended up squeezing between the gate and the wall.
Now I get home and it says "Balance not known" online when I checked before midnight. After reading dozens of SunPass horror stories I decided to go back and print it out, and here is what I see:
"ACTIVITY STATEMENTS:
No Current Month's Activity [Because it is December already]
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008 "
What happened to November 2008?
Why can't SunPass operate in realtime or near-realtime? I could understand if there is a delay of a few hours processing the scans at the toll booths, but its almost like they copy the days scans to floppy disks and then transfer them to their AS/400 (because they certainly aren't using modern technology).
Oh and as to what monkey designed the system? A bidder on a government project, of course. If VISA, MasterCard and American Express all can, in real time, propagate charges between many entities (you go to a shop and swipe the card, instantly it goes from store (1) to merchant processor (2) to merchant bank (3) to your bank (4) sees if you have available balance, and in realtime sends back a yes or a no.) Just the other night I bought something from Staples.com with my Amex and I refreshed my Amex online and *bam* purchase dedicated from available balance... why can't transactions through a single entity be remotely as efficient??? Same thing with my ING Direct MasterCard... buy something online, refresh the banking page and *bam* it shows the amount and the merchant name under "pending transactions" or if it with the PIN # it is "posted" by the time I can get home and check, but probably at that same instant.)
And I am not even going to say a peep about the SunPass customer service.
On the plus side, due to this horrible system one time I went to pick up my car from the shop and I had someone following me that had taken me to get the car. The other car didn't have SunPass but went through the "SunPass-only" lane. When I got home I called SunPass, added their tag to my account and the toll was deducted from my account without a problem and no fine was issued!
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 N9MDPremium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·PHONE POWER
| My wife and I are back and forth each month between our NJ and FL homes. We don't use the Florida's Tpke with any great frequency ... but seeing the SunPass MiniPass ads along the roads, we thought we'ld look into it. The reference below is just one of many which made us think twice ... we'll just continue to put our spare quarters in the dashboard coin holder and pay as we go.
»www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/···ass.html |
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joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5 | reply to joako
Oh and forgot to add, when I got off on Leesburg the SunPass worked just fine!
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 |
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 Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | reply to joako
This is why I got rid of my SunPass. It was just way more hassle than it's worth.
The sad part is that EVERYTHING Florida trys to do, with any amount of technology, fails.
I remember voting four years ago and doing it on a touch screen. That too failed because this year I was coloring in circles on a paper ballot.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. |
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 RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | reply to joako
I am a Sunpass user and I have zero problems with it. I don't have OCD where my current balance has to be reflected immediately. I have it setup that once my balance is below $10 dollars, for it to automatically refill.
I don't understand your #2 point. How else would the transponder know your balance when you refill it if it doesn't "sync" up with the toll system? It's not wireless, so it can't remotely get the balance.
I love the sunpass. I can jump on the turnpike without worrying if I have cash or change.
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 JahntassaWhat, I can have feathersPremium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
kudos:4 | said by Rob:I don't understand your #2 point. How else would the transponder know your balance when you refill it if it doesn't "sync" up with the toll system? It's not wireless, so it can't remotely get the balance. Does the Sunpass have a display on it? Is it anything more than a 'little box' stuck somewhere in your car? If so, why does it need to 'Sync' at all?
All the bit in your car should need to do is hold your account number. Or even just hold its own serial number, which is tied to an account number somewhere later on. Unless there's a button on the Sunpass itself, what possible reason would there be to hold any data on it?
Makes no sense.. And i'm not saying you make no sense, just the system in general. |
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RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
2 edits | said by Jahntassa:said by Rob:I don't understand your #2 point. How else would the transponder know your balance when you refill it if it doesn't "sync" up with the toll system? It's not wireless, so it can't remotely get the balance. Does the Sunpass have a display on it? Is it anything more than a 'little box' stuck somewhere in your car? If so, why does it need to 'Sync' at all? All the bit in your car should need to do is hold your account number. Or even just hold its own serial number, which is tied to an account number somewhere later on. Unless there's a button on the Sunpass itself, what possible reason would there be to hold any data on it? Makes no sense.. And i'm not saying you make no sense, just the system in general. The first generation sunpass transponder had an LCD:
»www.rayvaughan.com/images/projec···686L.JPG
The 2nd and third generation do not:
»www.leeleeandtheo.com/my_weblog/···ront.gif
And now they have the sticker also which just is an RFID tag.
»media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2008/j···pass.jpg
They all have to sync up so the transponder can keep an accurate record. When you pass over the system doing 50-70 mph, the toll system does not have time to check your balance and send a response to the transponder. So instead, the system will "take" your toll and charge your account, and the transponder will beep just to let you know that it was accepted.
The transponder will keep an record of your balance. If the transponder sees your balance is 0 or below the threshold, it will beep to indicate that. |
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 58483323Gurt me
join:2003-06-23
Normal, IL
1 edit | reply to joako
We have I-Pass in IL. And it's a godsend! Open road tolling is so much faster.. no waiting or stopping at all. We also get 1/2 off the tolls.
And after my trips through the tolls I check my online account and all the tolls are accounted for instantly.
Rob, I also have mine setup to add $40 to my account when it reaches $10.. that way I never have to worry about not having enough money.
Here, we buy the transponder for $50 and it automatically includes $40 in tolls... so we're only paying a $10 deposit for the transponder, which we'll get back once we're done using it.
It's a pretty good deal since like I said, we get half off the tolls.. it pays for itself. |
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 Sweet WitchBe the flame, not the moth.Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | reply to joako
In the Northeast we have EZ-Pass and I've never had a problem. It will automatically refresh the balance in the increment of your choice and the site updates within an hour, but we don't get a discount for using it - it's simply for convenience. I'm not sure how far south it goes, but I think the sister program covers NY and NJ.
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"While you can teach an old dog new tricks, you simply can't teach him to be a cat."
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | reply to joako
The SunPass doesn't do you much good convenience-wise. It's just as slow to go through the SunPass lane as it is the cash lanes. Especially in Southwest Florida. Too many elderly people that can't read the signs until the last minute and by then it's too late for them to get out of the SunPass lane.
So your stuck waiting for them to figure things out because Florida doesn't mark the lanes for SunPass until you're at the toll booth.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. |
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RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | said by Wills:So your stuck waiting for them to figure things out because Florida doesn't mark the lanes for SunPass until you're at the toll booth. Not down here. Sunpass lanes are marked at least a mile before the toll booth. There are numerous warnings. |
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58483323Gurt me
join:2003-06-23
Normal, IL | reply to Wills
said by Wills:The SunPass doesn't do you much good convenience-wise. It's just as slow to go through the SunPass lane as it is the cash lanes. That seems pointless... With open road tolling we're able to fly through the tolling lanes at full speeds. That's the main reason why I got it... the savings are nice but the convenience of not having to pull over and stop is worth more than the money saved. |
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RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | said by 58483323:said by Wills:The SunPass doesn't do you much good convenience-wise. It's just as slow to go through the SunPass lane as it is the cash lanes. That seems pointless... With open road tolling we're able to fly through the tolling lanes at full speeds. That's the main reason why I got it... the savings are nice but the convenience of not having to pull over and stop is worth more than the money saved. Initially the sunpass lane was a regular toll booth path but you just didn't stop. But you had to do 25mph or less (nobody did).
In the last year they have really changed the entire system. Most of the toll booths down here like this for the sunpass:
»ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2007/05/31···34-7.jpg
Just keep driving at your 65-70mph. Obviously if there is traffic (like in the morning), you might not be going as fast as usual. |
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58483323Gurt me
join:2003-06-23
Normal, IL | Oh okay...
That makes a lot more sense.
That's how ours are.
Isn't it a lot more convenient that way?  |
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joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5 Reviews:
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1 edit | reply to 58483323
said by 58483323:said by Wills:The SunPass doesn't do you much good convenience-wise. It's just as slow to go through the SunPass lane as it is the cash lanes. That seems pointless... With open road tolling we're able to fly through the tolling lanes at full speeds. That's the main reason why I got it... the savings are nice but the convenience of not having to pull over and stop is worth more than the money saved. Even before open road tolling on the Florida Turnpike... travling during weekends with heavy traffic, there could be 100 cars in line to pay the toll and the SunPass lane was certainly way quicker... you got to "cut off" the people paying with cash basically.
Oh I called SunPass today and they said 1) My balance is $55 currently (I use the auto refill) and 2) my last toll didn't register but they assured me I would be ok. 3) Sunpass.com still does not show November 2008, but I noticed "On-line account statements are available by the 10th of each month." WTF... I can see all the transactions from Nov 2008 up to 30th Nov. at midnight and then its gone for 10 days????
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | reply to joako
Wow, must be nice to have the lanes that clearly marked and even your own lanes. The ones down here aren't like that. The worst ones are the the booths before the Skyway bridge. Those are pretty poorly marked and really aren't marked until you're at the booth.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. |
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 neonhomerKK4BFNPremium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to joako
If I know my technology right, all a Sunpass/E-Pass transponder is supposed to be a big RFID tag. The transponder itself has no idea how much of a balance you have.
IIRC, this is how it works. You drive past the sensor, and the pulls the transponder ID. The system authenticates your ID and checks your balance. If you have funds, it deducts the amount from your account, and sends you a "toll paid" beep and flashes a light. If your account is low, it still deducts the toll, but also informs you that the accounts is low but your toll was paid. If your account is empty, it will signal that. If there is no money in the account, there is no money to pay the toll.
This system is also used to trigger the toll booth lights and gate (if equipped).
I also don't think it is Sunpasses fault for the slow refunding of an account. It takes some time for the credit transaction to clear and post to your account.
As for the the account status... two totally different systems, so the website has to poll the Sunpass system for data for the account status. While this could take place anytime, they might limit the the times when the website polls the Sunpass system to keep from dragging the Sunpass system down. (Website hits plus toll system requests = possible no toll collected.)
--
"I reject your reality and subsitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters
"We're either gonna die or gonna fly...", Jamie Hyneman, Mythbusters
The odds of me voting Republican are about as good as LHC creating a black hole big enough to swallow the Earth! |
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| reply to Sweet Witch
said by Sweet Witch:In the Northeast we have EZ-Pass... we don't get a discount for using it - You get a 25% off-peak discount on the NJ Turnpike. If you have a car that gets at least 45 mpg, you can sign-up for an additional 10% discount. There are also discounts on the PA/NYC bridges and tunnels. It works from Maine to Virginia and out to Illinois. |
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joakoPremium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:5 Reviews:
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| reply to neonhomer
said by neonhomer:If I know my technology right, all a Sunpass/E-Pass transponder is supposed to be a big RFID tag. The transponder itself has no idea how much of a balance you have. Maybe for the new "passive" tags, but look at the picture Rob linked to of the original sunpass transponder: »www.rayvaughan.com/images/projec···686L.JPG
With those you can actually press the button to view the balance even if you are nowhere near a sunpass. If you call sunpass and ask why is the balance shown online diffrent than the "real" balance, they will tell you that you need to drive through a sunpass lane for it to "download."
IIRC, this is how it works. You drive past the sensor, and the pulls the transponder ID. The system authenticates your ID and checks your balance. If you have funds, it deducts the amount from your account, and sends you a "toll paid" beep and flashes a light. If your account is low, it still deducts the toll, but also informs you that the accounts is low but your toll was paid. If your account is empty, it will signal that. If there is no money in the account, there is no money to pay the toll. Thats how it ***SHOULD*** work. But no, this system is ass-backwards. Someone figured out how to sell their 1980's technology to Florida, instead of throwing it away.
I also don't think it is Sunpasses fault for the slow refunding of an account. It takes some time for the credit transaction to clear and post to your account. Bullshit. Credit cards dan be processed in near-realtime.
As for the the account status... two totally different systems, so the website has to poll the Sunpass system for data for the account status. While this could take place anytime, they might limit the the times when the website polls the Sunpass system to keep from dragging the Sunpass system down. (Website hits plus toll system requests = possible no toll collected.)
But up to a 10 day delay? And like I said if I replenish my sunpass account and not go through a sunpass lane with the transponder it will NEVER update online. If I call and ask why is my balance $10, I added $100 three months ago they will tell me that I need to go through a sunpass lane for it to "download."
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neonhomerKK4BFNPremium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| No, a 10 day delay is not acceptable. For that matter, 24 hours is not acceptable either.
I use Sunpass as well. I live in the Daytona Beach area, but work all over the state of Floriduh, so I frequently use it, and I don't have any problems. The new, display-less transponders have no reason to know how much toll you have if they have no display.
The older balance display transponders might be legacy supported, but from the look of that one, it just shows you the toll paid, not balance available. It might actually hold your balance info, but it just looks like a "toll paid" display.
Other than that, I am at a loss....
I travel the 408, 417, and Turnpike a lot, and hardly have any problems. The only problem I have is not hearing the little "BEEP" from the transponder.
--
"I reject your reality and subsitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters
"We're either gonna die or gonna fly...", Jamie Hyneman, Mythbusters
The odds of me voting Republican are about as good as LHC creating a black hole big enough to swallow the Earth! |
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