 Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
4 edits | reply to dvd536
Re: Upverting DVD players vs Blue ray DVD players. Just many feel the cost is not in line with the relative worth.
Sure I'd love a Lamborghini or Ferrari... but not really worth the cost unless you have more money than god and don't know what to do with it. Lots of $50K and under cars come close enough for most people
And a lot of the upconversion lack is the original SD delivery... Straight from DVD (downconverted from a HD source vs old SD master) looks very close to 720p HD unless you put you face right in the screen... most cable and boradcast SD does not, because they bitrate limit it.
Broadcast analog will be going away in Feb, and probably Cable a few years after, as the duplication of channels just won't be worth it anymore, with virtually no sets that can receive them.... just the few die hards with converter boxes, that will still get the digital anyways.
Sort of like when UHF tuners/reception were made manditory, for a few years there were UHF to VHF converter boxes but only for maybe 5 yrs max... by then most had bought a new set, or moved up to color anyways (as the nets went full color a couple of years later), which would have a UHF tuner.
By then all channels will likely be HD, with SD content masked. And maybe a few all SD oldie program stations (like say TVLAND), as ED sub channels. With none distributed in analog... already the case really... except local OTA channels they are all D/A converted to analog for basic cable now. That will not last forever after 2/2009, especially with those 70 channels each taking up the space of several HD channels and like 10 ED channels.
Our PBS channel in Miami now has three ED sub channels. 1080i HD for main PBS, and 3 ED for an All Latino, All kids, and all educational subchannels. All are now on the unencryped "local/Public Affairs" digital cable service ATSC sets can recieve without a box. (along with local gov channels, QVC and some low end all Spanish channels,as well as CSPAN 1 & 2)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | You were a HD DVD fan, huh?  |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | said by dadkins:You were a HD DVD fan, huh? Certainly was more cost effective format... but look who Blue Ray is... SONY PRORIETARY RAPE for every last penny we can get while have to have the best suckers will let us... that phase is over they have all bought in...now reality will set in.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
1 edit | said by Hayward:said by dadkins:You were a HD DVD fan, huh? Certainly was more cost effective format... but look who Blue Ray is... SONY PRORIETARY RAPE for every last penny we can get while have to have the best suckers will let us... that phase is over they have all bought in...now reality will set in. ... and yet HD DVD failed. Hmmm.
It's spelled Blu-ray.
The BDA is MUCH more than just Sony. 
Board Members:
Apple Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation
Thomson SA
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment
Warner Bros. Entertainment, Inc.
Better start pointing that pitchfork at a few more companies... 
Reality is, Blu-ray is the best source for HD video. Period.
I like it so much, I bought a second machine!
Here's a question for you.
Care to guess what company made the BD drives in my machines?
P...
Pa...
Pan...
Pana...
Panasonic...
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:said by dadkins:You were a HD DVD fan, huh? Certainly was more cost effective format... but look who Blue Ray is... SONY PRORIETARY RAPE for every last penny we can get while have to have the best suckers will let us... that phase is over they have all bought in...now reality will set in. Let's analyze that, a bit, shall we? Do you remember what blank DVD media prices were like a few years ago (i.e., when they first started making DVD writers)? It was rather more expensive than today. A large part of that decrease is thanks to economies of scale. But, we'll ignore that...
At any rate, if you want a double-layer blank DVD-R, you're going to be spending about $1 or so for each blank. That works out to nearly 25¢ per Gigabyte.
For a blank, dual-layer BD-R, you're going to be paying about $25-$30. Given the media storage capacity, that works out to 40¢-60¢ per GB.
You could also point out that CD-Rs can be had for about 15¢ each. Then again, a CD-R doesn't even hold 1GB of data. That works out to like 20¢ per GB - still cheaper than both DVD-R and BD-R. Why don't we load up on CD-Rs, since they're the cheapest optical media option?
While the per-gigabyte cost of BD-Rs is currently higher than DVDs, you have to figure in that both products are at radically different phases of the economies of scale lifecycle. You also have to figure in that you need to store 10+ DVDs worth of shelf space for every 1 BD-R's worth of shelf space. If I'm writing data, I can tell you that, even at double the per-GB price, the shelf space consumption more than offsets that differential.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 LBDSLLightning BoltVIP
join:2002-01-07
Auburn Hills, MI | said by nixen:For a blank, dual-layer BD-R, you're going to be paying about $25-$30. Given the media storage capacity, that works out to 40¢-60¢ per GB. and even cheaper for a single layer »www.monoprice.com/products/produ···format=2
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nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | I figured better to compare the more expensive option... 
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to LBDSL
»shop4.frys.com/product/5678631?s···_RSLT_PG
Can be found for even less if you really shop around.
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:said by Hayward:said by dadkins:You were a HD DVD fan, huh? Certainly was more cost effective format... but look who Blue Ray is... SONY PROPRIETARY RAPE for every last penny we can get while have to have the best suckers will let us... that phase is over they have all bought in...now reality will set in. ... and yet HD DVD failed. Hmmm. It's spelled Blu-ray. No its spelled BIG BUCK$
Most money doesn't prove anything.... Micro$oft has certainly proved that... Apple even has held there own against still for big Buck$, but then Linux is going gang busters.
Bigger is not always better.
Again, its to the point that SONY et al, have raped have to have the biggest and best people.... they are going to HAVE to lower prices significantly, to make it MASS, especially with the global economy as it is.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
4 edits | reply to nixen
said by nixen:Let's analyze that, a bit, shall we? Do you remember what blank DVD media prices were like a few years ago (i.e., when they first started making DVD writers)? It was rather more expensive than today. A large part of that decrease is thanks to economies of scale. But, we'll ignore that... That likely will soon happen to Blue Ray... or just remain a high end luxury item)
quote:
At any rate, if you want a double-layer blank DVD-R, you're going to be spending about $1 or so for each blank. That works out to nearly 25¢ per Gigabyte.
For a blank, dual-layer BD-R, you're going to be paying about $25-$30. Given the media storage capacity, that works out to 40¢-60¢ per GB.
You could also point out that CD-Rs can be had for about 15¢ each. Then again, a CD-R doesn't even hold 1GB of data. That works out to like 20¢ per GB - still cheaper than both DVD-R and BD-R. Why don't we load up on CD-Rs, since they're the cheapest optical media option?
While the per-gigabyte cost of BD-Rs is currently higher than DVDs, you have to figure in that both products are at radically different phases of the economies of scale lifecycle.
Life cycle how???
Now a cost per GB that only counts for raw data... as far as movie/video time then then Blue Ray cost goes WAY UP vs standard DVD. Again BOTH hardware and media.
And again SONY as the proprietary rapist leader of the pack (why Betamax failed)... doing it over again.
Hopefully this time they will have more sense, and realize now is the time to make it (BR) main stream vs milking every last proprietary PENNY they can, that cursed BETAMAX.
PS why I have NEVER owned a SONY digi cam.... PROPRIETARY battery and MEMORY.... EVERYONE else using CF or coming on SD... they tried to keep their chewing gum mem stick TOTALLY proprietary... but did finally licence the format to other mem manufactures... facing failure of alone in the world again, like Betamax, as usual thinking they could have the whole pie to themselves.
Still wouldn't buy a SONY.
Last SONY product I bought was a DIGITAL 8 video cam... because I was invested in 8mm, and they were amoung the last still supporting the format.
But now that tape isn't even necessary anymore... the hell with them once again.
Currently 3 CCD (R,G & B sensored separately) Panasonic Full 1080p HD $400 to SD media palmable 10 oz wonder. Bye bye Sony.
They probably have similar but still likely using (no one else does so no inter device swapping) SONY chewing gum mem sticks.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Seriously?
Over time, as technologies gain greater acceptance product - particularly media prices and production prices come down. Do you remember how much it used to cost to buy, say, a 5000CD-run of music versus how much that costs, today? Similar happened with DVDs. That's part of the technology lifecycle. Similar will happen to BluRay. It's inevitable.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to Hayward
Panasonic drive in this Sony laptop... Hmmm. |
said by Hayward: Still wouldn't buy a SONY. So, get a Samsung, or Pioneer, or Mitsubishi, or Panasonic, or...
All this hate for Sony... better never use a CD or DVD drive ever again - Philips and Sony created them!
Stop watching movies or TV friend - Sony is deep in them.
LOL!
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to nixen
said by nixen:Seriously? Over time, as technologies gain greater acceptance product - particularly media prices and production prices come down. Do you remember how much it used to cost to buy, say, a 5000CD-run of music versus how much that costs, today? Similar happened with DVDs. That's part of the technology lifecycle. Similar will happen to BluRay. It's inevitable. Agreed but as just a refinement that time is now... pretty much all the money is no object people have already bought them... everyone else is waiting for that shake out... VS when VCR, CD, and DVD's first came out... as NEW technology.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:said by Hayward: Still wouldn't buy a SONY. So, get a Samsung, or Pioneer, or Mitsubishi, or Panasonic, or... All this hate for Sony... better never use a CD or DVD drive ever again - Philips and Sony created them! Stop watching movies or TV friend - Sony is deep in them. LOL! Duhhh... the movies and standard DVD drives are NOT PROPRITARY.... that was the point.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by Hayward:said by dadkins:said by Hayward: Still wouldn't buy a SONY. So, get a Samsung, or Pioneer, or Mitsubishi, or Panasonic, or... All this hate for Sony... better never use a CD or DVD drive ever again - Philips and Sony created them! Stop watching movies or TV friend - Sony is deep in them. LOL! Duhhh... the movies and standard DVD drives are NOT PROPRITARY.... that was the point. My Sonys use Panasonic drives.
I have movies on DVD *AND* Blu-ray from several different studios - what's your point?
What is proprietary about them?
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
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Key West, FL
kudos:1 | Because SONY owns Blue Ray, and all others license the use... artifically raising prices of media, movies, and hardware, where is regular DBD, is a now open standard format.
This is what SONY did with BETAMAX... unfortunately this time around, the blodgeoned Toshiba out of the market, instead of JVC winning with VHS, they allowed anyone to manufacture, with reasonal licence fees.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by Hayward:Because SONY owns Blue Ray, and all others license the use... artifically raising prices of media, movies, and hardware, where is regular DBD, is a now open standard format. This is what SONY did with BETAMAX... unfortunately this time around, the blodgeoned Toshiba out of the market, instead of JVC winning with VHS, they allowed anyone to manufacture, with reasonal licence fees. ROFL!
BDA - look it up!
As for beating Toshiba... Sony, and the rest of the BDA, beat the snot out of Toshiba with minimal advertising, even though Toshiba was having weekly firesales *AND* paying off studios for exclusing movie rights.
Thanks Hayward!
Please spell it right... Blu-ray.
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