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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. I have some friends (that are in another state for anyone looking to take them out, so don't look for them in Utah) who are involved in various "law enforcement" agencies. They will not say exactly how the various so called taps work, other than they have a handful of John and Jane Does that they can fill out as needed. And btw Noah, you are wrong on the locations of the watchers, they are in a heck of a lot more areas and have been for many years, it is just that with the greater success of the monitors, since 911 woke a few upper level suits up, the grunts in the trenches have been allowed to be more effective.
I suspect that because they are more effective is why the various rights groups have been twigged on what is going on.
As far as doing any good, well, we were spending some time at one friends house for a holiday, and they got a call that the 'taps' had picked up something, move it. Never did learn what it was, but they did have to re-clean their weapons the next day.
Unfortunately, the writers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights never had the situation we have today where we can move around the world in day or two, communicate instantly anywhere in the world, and do so much damage so easy, and have an essentially unarmed population. I personally do not think those two documents really say much to the watching of external phone and data lines, but there are court cases that do. And court cases are subject to re-interpretation. I suspect from what I have been seeing/hearing on the news lately, that you will see a lot more tapping and watching at a lower level in the next 4 years. And that is scary because it goes past watching for trouble, and going into control.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
|   KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. You have Friends somewhere with guns. Better hope the day doesn't come when that is considered "Terrorist" behavior, or the monitoring system you seem to support will be used to imprison... you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. said by KrK:You have Friends somewhere with guns. Better hope the day doesn't come when that is considered "Terrorist" behavior, or the monitoring system you seem to support will be used to imprison... you. Shows how little you understand what you read son, I said they were in one of the "Law Enforcement" branches, they are REQUIRED to have weapons as a part of their job. I suppose to you they are terrorists since because of them you can not go out and be what most folks consider anti-social.
Oh, and where I live, most people have guns (yes, plural), and not just the ones who voted for the democrat, but the ones who voted for the socialist. And surprising enough, according to the police department, more murders are committed by knives in this area.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. I read that, but your whole post was "I have friends who.... and everything is ok."
Sorry, I'm afraid I'll have to stick with the EFF on this one.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. said by KrK:I read that, but your whole post was "I have friends who.... and everything is ok." Sorry, I'm afraid I'll have to stick with the EFF on this one. Children.......
Here is the full quote:
"I have some friends (that are in another state for anyone looking to take them out, so don't look for them in Utah) who are involved in various "law enforcement" agencies."
And since you are being dense and you can not seem to read long sentences with qualifiers, here is the quote without the qualifier that they do not live in this state:
"I have some friends who are involved in various "law enforcement" agencies."
And no, I will not tell you what state they live in.
I find this entire main topic humorous since 'private' communication surveillance has been going on since at least the mid 80's when I first saw it, and now children like you decide that it is new and directed at you all because it is now hyped in the media. And the your new sub topic of personal weapons making us peons terrorists that you focused on to derail the fact that the current data gathering has actually did what it was suppose to for a change is even more humorous, in a sad way.
Enjoy your blindness, the ones who started this current wave of surveillance will be back in power shortly.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. I'm not being dense. I read your post. It's just one of those "I have friends who told me this" and the argument is we have nothing to worry about.
"Law enforcement" in no way makes the argument. After all, most oppression and abuses throughout history has been 100% perfectly legal. When the Government wants to infringe on your rights, who are the people that usually do so? "Law Enforcement" agents following those laws.
So, the government wants to violate the constitution, and the police tell you that everything is A-OK. No thanks.
Like I said, I'll stick with the EFF. You can keep the assurances of your buddies that such spying will never ever be abused, and that Government will never tread on the rights of the citizenry.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. Shrug. | |
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Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| said by RayW:Unfortunately, the writers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights never had the situation we have today where we can move around the world in day or two, communicate instantly anywhere in the world, I think that's an important point which cuts both ways. Self-styled freedom fighters talk like we're losing our rights just because government power evolves to meet modern problems (just as the founding generation evolved by abandoning the relatively libertarian Articles of Confederation in favor of a relatively massive Federal Constitutional government). But, what they forget is that those modern problems are a result of increased individual power that the founding generation would have never dreamed of.
We can travel around the world in a day. Talk instantaneously to anyone. Form our opinions from a variety of sources. And, voice our opinions on the web, to millions, without having to buy a Guttenberg press.
These things improve our political and personal power. But, you never hear self-styled freedom fighters count these things. All they count is how government power has increased (in response to misuses of this increased individual power).
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| | | said by RayW: As far as doing any good, well, we were spending some time at one friends house for a holiday, and they got a call that the 'taps' had picked up something, move it. Never did learn what it was, but they did have to re-clean their weapons the next day. And that proves what, exactly? We don't know if they were going after a valid threat, or if it was just someone saying "Bush sucks!"
Sorry, if you "never did learn what it was", then how do you even know it's "doing any good?"
And on a related note, I can't believe Amigo used "that" phrase twice in the same post. Guess he's running out of material.  | |
| | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Sigh..I hate to admit it, but TK is actually sort of right. When you work for the government, certain things are classified. In this case, if the media does not find out, then they can not tell the folks who are doing thing like 911 how they failed so they can change tactics.
I assume you were being facetious with the Bush comment, because if were true, we would have more stories like the acquaintances of the Clinton's who had strange accidents.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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