miscDude
@comcast.com
| reply to Greg2600
Re: Digital Transport Adapter Unboxing Photos
said by Greg2600  :Here's my question though, if before you had just basic or expanded analog, not digital, and now get this box, will you get all the non-premium digital channels? Or will you have to be forced into buying expanded digital tier? This box does not de-encrypt so Comcast can't separate those packages anymore, no? My understanding is that these DTAs are designed, and marketed to fill that spot for the "extra" TV's a customer has. The idea is that there are a LOT of customers who have digital cable with a regular STB, but may have multiple TV's in the house plugged in to just straight analog to pick up the analog channels. With the Analog reclaimation projects they were doing, they were pissing off a large number of customers who suddenly would see thier bill increase dramatically for those extra boxes for each TV.
Customers who are currently analog only would be served by existing promotions like the Digital Starter (or new Economy services) that provide a single traditional box free for the year and give them access to VoD and music choice, but there was no such "free box" offers for existing Digital Classic/premier/premuim customers who already get the full service digital packages on a TV but actively used 3 or 4 additional TV's with regular analog cable. These DTA's would provide those TV's with the ability to keep those old "analog" channels as they move to digitial.
This is kind of supported by the pricing I've heard on the DTA's where you can get 1 or 2 free with an existing digital package and only maybe $1 for additional boxes.
If you figure your "average" digital customer only maybe has 1 digital outlet in the living room, but takes advantage of the analog cable in the kitchen, kids bedroom (Don't need to give the kids access to skinamax or PPV after all), or master bedroom, This allows them to continue receiving the same basic services with no increase in overall cost, and still allows the MSO to do the bandwidth reclaimation they want/need to do.
The Analog only customers there has been a steady effort to try and get them to at least an entry level digital service for quite awhile, and I don't see that strategy changing. (And with the recent announcements and launching of the Economy tier which includes a standard box, cheaper than your traditional analog expanded basic, that strategy isn't changing, it's just evolving).
Then you get those people with 8 tv's who complain about the analogs going away because they would need 8 boxes vs. the 2 they may have now. I'd say this is probably easily a minority of cable customers, and while they may have a valid argument with having a $60-$100 increase in monthly cost with traditional boxes, The $1 per extra after 2 boxes, that arguement loses a lot of teeth when you are looking at only an additional $4/mo. (if you can afford 8 tvs, $4 ain't gonna kill ya). |
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miscDude
@comcast.com
| reply to rra
said by rra :It seems that everyone here is confused as to what this device does. Customer's that have cablecard installed on their tv or tivo haven't been able to get SDV (switched digital video) This tuning adapter resolves that. You still have to pay for the channels. It's only purpose is to provide authorized channels a way to be viewed without a cablebox. This makes cablecards and Tivos functional again. Why would this device need any output but coax. It goes between the tv and the wall or between the wall and the tivo. The only reason it has a mac address is prolly for tracking/stocking purposes. You get it for free but I'm sure there's a cost if you lose/damage it. There is a difference between the DTA (Digital Transport/Tuning Adapter) and the TiVO SDV tuning resolver.
One key difference you will notice out of the box....The Tuning resolver for Tivo's isn't going to include a remote because the TiVO will communicate with it directly when it attempts to tune an SDV stream to allow the resolver to handle the SDV request.
Beyond that, I have yet to hear of any Comcast site's actually deploying SDV, so beyond that test market in NJ that was starting to distribute them in anticipation of a SDV trial (and recently received notice that trial was put on hold because of some FCC decisions), I don't know why Comcast would be still handing these out. |
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Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | reply to miscDude
It's not the $1 per box it's the $6 - $7 per box plus the digital cable outlet fee and you should be able to buy the basic boxes not pay forever on a $50 box. |
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miscDude
join:2005-03-24
Hendersonville, NC
| said by Joe12345678 :It's not the $1 per box it's the $6 - $7 per box plus the digital cable outlet fee and you should be able to buy the basic boxes not pay forever on a $50 box. A "Standard" cable box costs much more than just $50. Pricing I've heard says that the cablecard (the decryption components) cost more than $50 alone, and that doesn't include the extra hardware needed in a standard box, plus the monthly guide licensing fees the MSO pays for the guide information on your cablebox. These are the boxes you pay $6-7 per box for (plus digital outlet fees....depending upon market).
The DTA's are the $50 "box's" that they are saying you can get 2 free with a digital package that includes a "standard" box, and then pay $1 per extra. I'm also going to assume that the digital outlet fee isn't going to be in effect for the DTAs since technically it's not a digital outlet in the traditional sense.
Hmmmm... Ya know, I'm thinking someone needs to put together a FAQ that includes some sort of (semi)official terminology to refer to the different box types now. With DTA's, Tuning resolvers, "Legacy boxes" (DCT2000s), standard boxes (Non-dvrs), DVRs, Advanced setop boxes, Tru2way/OCAP devices, TiVo's, etc etc etc.... It may not hurt to try and establish some sort of mutually agreed upon terminology so everybody knows exactly what type of box you are refering too. It could help eliminate some confusion for people. |
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sansri88
Go digtal you analog laggards
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
clubs:  | I'm up for doing that with other people that are more knowledgeable than me (like cypher, cabletool, yourself, etc). |
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miscDude
join:2005-03-24
Hendersonville, NC
| said by sansri88 :I'm up for doing that with other people that are more knowledgeable than me (like cypher, cabletool, yourself, etc). IMHO... someone who isn't as knowledgeable would probably be better to at least start the list. Why? because the goal would be to make it easy to understand, and those of use who know a lot more have a tendency to overthink or make things more complicated then they should be.
Part of the idea is to make it easier for newbies or casual people to know what we are talking about. The last thing we want would be to have more secret techy terms that make it harder for them to understand what's going on. |
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sansri88
Go digtal you analog laggards
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
clubs: | Definitely true. We would want people to understand the boxes, not to be lost in a myriad of unknown cable terms.
Probably should take this discussion to another thread though, we're going a bit off topic with this. |
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ViRGEdx
join:2002-10-25
| reply to ViRGEdx
Alright, Q&A time.
First, just so we're clear (since I thought everyone knew what a DTA is, my bad), a DTA is a scaled down cable box stripped of virtually all functionality other than tuning channels - there's no HD, no On Demand, no music channels, etc.
Comcast is going mostly digital in my area, so they're scrapping the expanded basic analog channels(32-71) as of January 14th, leaving just the limited basic analog channels (2-31, and even then some of that is used for digital today). Although I understand some markets have already been given the same treatment (Chicago?) we're the first widescale DTA deployment, as Comcast wants to try these things out here in Oregon before going national.
Being the Luddite that I am, I'm still on expanded basic cable (I had no need for digital beyond picking up the HD locals with my HDHomeRun) so I'm part of the 15% affected by this. Comcast is moving all of its expanded basic customers to the Digital Starter tier, and giving us 3 devices for free for the transition: the 2 DTAs, and a standard STB (I received a Motorola DCH70). As near as I can tell from Comcast's site, new digital customers still only get the first STB for free, so the free DTAs are only for people Comcast needs to move to digital. Clearly something will change in the future, either Comcast will charge me for the DTAs in a year, or include them for free in all of the digital packages.
Additional DTAs can be ordered from Comcast for $1.99 a month. For reference, I have no clue what additional STBs go for (Comcast doesn't list a price on their site), SD DVRs are $8.95, and HD DVRs are $13.95, and apparently you need to upgrade to Digital Preferred to be able to order the DVRs. Package prices are $55.40 for Digital Starter (the same as expanded basic was), $69.35 for Digital Classic, $70.35 for Preferred, and $119.99 for Premier.
I should also add that in preparation for this, Comcast ceased encrypting all of the Digital Starter channels. I have heard that the DTAs have a security module, but since it's not a separable module the FCC won't allow its use. As it stands it can only pick up unencryped channels, so it can not pick up any premium channels. The whole unencrypted thing is fine by me, since this allows me to continue to use my HDHomeRun on my main TV.
Is there any sort of on screen display? I notice an Info button on the remote. Does it simply tell you the time and channel name? As you can see in the following screenshot, you only get the channel number and the station callsign. The box doesn't appear to keep track of time, and it has no further features (programming guide, etc).
Is the audio from Ch 3/4 RF out still in Mono like current digital boxes, or did they figure out BTSC Stereo encoding like the old analog boxes? I think it's stereo, but the TVs my DTAs are hooked up to are mono, so I have no quick way to test it.
You can receive all the premium channels right? No, only unencrypted Digital Starter channels.
One interesting point that you made: You said the picture quality isn't anything to write home about. You made this comment compared to what? Like, say, were you to plug a S-Video out from a regular digital cable box to the same TV, the picture quality would improve? Compared to being able to use something other than RF.
Hows the channel tune performance. When you quickly push Ch up or down, is it relatively fast? Does it lag or hang up on you? Tuning performance is pretty poor (I'm new to digital so I have no idea how it compares to other devices, but compared to analog it's poor), I measured it at 2 seconds. There is no lag in trying to flip through channels quickly however, if you switch again while it's tuning a previous channel, it simply stops and moves on to the next one. Basically it doesn't start to tune a channel until you stop flipping channels.
Is this something available for purchase from Comcast or do you still have to rent it, and if so, what's the price difference between this and a STB? Rental only. I have no idea what renting a STB costs, so I can't give you a price difference. Sorry.
Beyond that, I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least some sort of simple way to authorize these boxes on the cable plant, ether thru a "keep alive" message or some other indirect way they can shut one down That's more or less on the dot. In spite of only being able to tune unencrypted channels, it did not tune anything until remotely activated. I have no idea what would happen if I tried to move it somewhere else though.
What is Comcast charging/month for the box and what channels does it receive? Beyond the 2 free DTAs, it would be $1.99 for each additional one. It can receive all of the Digital Starter channels.
Here's my question though, if before you had just basic or expanded analog, not digital, and now get this box, will you get all the non-premium digital channels? Or will you have to be forced into buying expanded digital tier? This box does not de-encrypt so Comcast can't separate those packages anymore, no? All expanded basic customers are being automatically converted to Digital Starter at the same price. This box can pick up those channels and nothing else (whether the channels that you get with Proffered are "premium" or not, I guess depends on the definition). This box does not currently decrypt anything, so the Digital Starter tier is unencrypted.
Hmmmm... Ya know, I'm thinking someone needs to put together a FAQ that includes some sort of (semi)official terminology to refer to the different box types now. The worst part is that no one (even Comcast) seems to be able to remember what DTA stands for. Apparently it's Digital Transport Adapter, but we'll see how long that lasts. Personally, I'm all for calling them Luddite Boxes and leaving it at that.
Anyhow, any other questions? |
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pennstatejim
join:2007-10-10
Reading, PA | Thanks for the information about the DTAs!! It's a great tool. If they went all-digital here, I would probably only need one in our bedroom, since the main TV has a HD/DVR...
Very cool! Thanks! |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
2 edits | reply to ViRGEdx
Thanks for the answers. It's cool that they at least give you a channel number and call sign in a nice font and contrasting color. Hell, that font's better than Motorola's font you see when typing channel numbers in the top center of the screen!
Now only if we could figure out if there's some sort of diagnostic mode...
Do you get any channels over 100? Like Weatherscan is on 101 here and a few free subchannels like ABC News, ABC Weather, NBC Weather, etc... are in the upper 200's. What about Music Choice? That's unencrypted here. If it does get channels post 100, does it SKIP to them, or do you have to scroll through a bunch of "NOT AUTHORIZED" channels? |
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miscDude
join:2005-03-24
Hendersonville, NC
| Considering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box.
These things are pretty dumb compared to any other modern definition of a settop box, so likely their channel map information is a pretty basic one with just the expanded basic channels.
Honestly, it makes sense since these things don't have an OOB tuner to grab System information like the channel map from the traditional OOB source, So whatever method they choose to deliver the channel map to the box would have to be compact and unobtrusive to avoid causing problems with the classic boxes on the system. |
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neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA | reply to ViRGEdx
So do you buy these things or do they have a monthly charge? if so how much per month? |
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ViRGEdx
join:2002-10-25
2 edits | reply to ViRGEdx
Do you get any channels over 100? Like Weatherscan is on 101 here and a few free subchannels like ABC News, ABC Weather, NBC Weather, etc... are in the upper 200's. What about Music Choice? That's unencrypted here. If it does get channels post 100, does it SKIP to them, or do you have to scroll through a bunch of "NOT AUTHORIZED" channels? It does not get the music channels*, but it does get channels above 100. There's Galavision on 619 for example and Oxygen on 500. I don't have to skip through "Not Authorized" channels and the box won't even let me punch them in; it simply ignores any channel numbers it doesn't get.
onsidering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box. The channel mapping is exactly the same as with a STB. 500 is the same thing on the STB as it is the DTA.
So do you buy these things or do they have a monthly charge? if so how much per month? They're rented items, being rented out for free as part of the termination of expanded basic here. I got 2 for free, further ones would be $1.99.
* I should add that they don't appear in the clear with my HDHomeRun either. AFAIK they're just another channel (with an extremely low video bitrate) so they must still be encrypted. |
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miscDude
join:2005-03-24
Hendersonville, NC
| said by ViRGEdx :onsidering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box. The channel mapping is exactly the same as with a STB. 500 is the same thing on the STB as it is the DTA. I was refering more the the back-end channel mapping. They'd probably keep the channels in the same location because of the channel cards that are printed, and contracts with providers.
The fact that the box acts like it doesn't know anything about those channels you don't get, actually adds to the theory that you have a seperate channel map. |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| reply to ViRGEdx
Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded? Maybe some simple FSK carrier somewhere, or maybe it does work with the traditional Motorola OOB stream?
It has to get it from somewhere, because you activated the thing, and it knows where to go for each channel. |
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cableric
@comcast.net | reply to plat2on1
It's one way addressable. |
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cableric
@comcast.net
 from:
scanpa
| reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream :Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded? It's still authorized via the DAC but all messaging occurs in-band as the box does not contain an OOB tuner.
----------
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.
(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.) |
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cableric
join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
| reply to miscDude
The fact that the box acts like it doesn't know anything about those channels you don't get, actually adds to the theory that you have a seperate channel map.
It's a little bit different than a standard STB, the DTA operates off of a separate source_name_list as opposed to a traditional channel map, but the result is the same.
------------
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.
(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.) |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs: | Are there add ons to the Motorola DAC or Scientific Atlanta DNCS, or is there a new DTA controller installed in the headend to manage the set tops? |
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miscDude
join:2005-03-24
Hendersonville, NC
| reply to cableric
said by cableric :said by cypherstream :Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded? It's still authorized via the DAC but all messaging occurs in-band as the box does not contain an OOB tuner. ---------- Eric Pace Americas, Inc. (The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.) Interesting Eric. Didn't SA/Cisco get away from inband System Information because of bandwidth and other issues? |
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