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miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
reply to cypherstream

Re: Digital Transport Adapter Unboxing Photos

Considering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box.

These things are pretty dumb compared to any other modern definition of a settop box, so likely their channel map information is a pretty basic one with just the expanded basic channels.

Honestly, it makes sense since these things don't have an OOB tuner to grab System information like the channel map from the traditional OOB source, So whatever method they choose to deliver the channel map to the box would have to be compact and unobtrusive to avoid causing problems with the classic boxes on the system.

neufuse

join:2006-12-06
James Creek, PA
reply to ViRGEdx
So do you buy these things or do they have a monthly charge? if so how much per month?

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25

2 edits
reply to ViRGEdx
Do you get any channels over 100? Like Weatherscan is on 101 here and a few free subchannels like ABC News, ABC Weather, NBC Weather, etc... are in the upper 200's. What about Music Choice? That's unencrypted here. If it does get channels post 100, does it SKIP to them, or do you have to scroll through a bunch of "NOT AUTHORIZED" channels?
It does not get the music channels*, but it does get channels above 100. There's Galavision on 619 for example and Oxygen on 500. I don't have to skip through "Not Authorized" channels and the box won't even let me punch them in; it simply ignores any channel numbers it doesn't get.

onsidering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box.
The channel mapping is exactly the same as with a STB. 500 is the same thing on the STB as it is the DTA.

So do you buy these things or do they have a monthly charge? if so how much per month?
They're rented items, being rented out for free as part of the termination of expanded basic here. I got 2 for free, further ones would be $1.99.

* I should add that they don't appear in the clear with my HDHomeRun either. AFAIK they're just another channel (with an extremely low video bitrate) so they must still be encrypted.

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
said by ViRGEdx:

onsidering the boxes don't have Iguide, I'd be kind of shocked if they used the same channel map as a regular box.
The channel mapping is exactly the same as with a STB. 500 is the same thing on the STB as it is the DTA.

I was refering more the the back-end channel mapping. They'd probably keep the channels in the same location because of the channel cards that are printed, and contracts with providers.

The fact that the box acts like it doesn't know anything about those channels you don't get, actually adds to the theory that you have a seperate channel map.


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·ProLog
reply to ViRGEdx
Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded? Maybe some simple FSK carrier somewhere, or maybe it does work with the traditional Motorola OOB stream?

It has to get it from somewhere, because you activated the thing, and it knows where to go for each channel.


cableric

@comcast.net
reply to plat2on1
It's one way addressable.


cableric

@comcast.net

1 recommendation

reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream:

Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded?
It's still authorized via the DAC but all messaging occurs in-band as the box does not contain an OOB tuner.

----------
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.

(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.)


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
reply to miscDude
The fact that the box acts like it doesn't know anything about those channels you don't get, actually adds to the theory that you have a seperate channel map.
It's a little bit different than a standard STB, the DTA operates off of a separate source_name_list as opposed to a traditional channel map, but the result is the same.

------------
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.

(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.)


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
Are there add ons to the Motorola DAC or Scientific Atlanta DNCS, or is there a new DTA controller installed in the headend to manage the set tops?

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
reply to cableric
said by cableric:

said by cypherstream:

Yeah I wonder how it gets authorized and how the channel map is downloaded?
It's still authorized via the DAC but all messaging occurs in-band as the box does not contain an OOB tuner.

----------
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.

(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.)
Interesting Eric. Didn't SA/Cisco get away from inband System Information because of bandwidth and other issues?


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·ProLog
reply to ViRGEdx
Yeah sorry for so many questions, there's no real info about this box on Pace website. I'm interested in what it takes to deploy this from the Headend standpoint, not only what additional hardware may be required but what kind of impact it has on the billing system. Some whitepapers or demos on Pace Americas website would be helpful.


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO

2 edits
reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream:

Are there add ons to the Motorola DAC or Scientific Atlanta DNCS, or is there a new DTA controller installed in the headend to manage the set tops?
The latest DAC Version 3.1.1-17 contains two applications for "controlling" DTAs, these being SiGEN and DTATM. In addition installation of a headend carousel server is required for software updates as these boxes do not utilize legacy out of band.

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
said by cableric:

said by cypherstream:

Are there add ons to the Motorola DAC or Scientific Atlanta DNCS, or is there a new DTA controller installed in the headend to manage the set tops?
The latest DAC Version 3.1.1-17 contains two applications for "controlling" DTAs, these being SiGEN and DTATM. In addition installation of a headend carousel server is required for software updates as these boxes do not utilize legacy out of band.
So does that mean they won't work at all on a SA system?


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO

1 edit
So does that mean they won't work at all on a SA system?
I don't know where SA/CISCO is at with their DNCS and DTA implementation. So far all of the sites I've launched have been Moto. Portland was the first, followed by Philly last week, S.F. in two weeks, and Seattle after that.

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
Philly launched the DTA's??

Interesting, guess that means you guys in Philly may actually get some more HD finally!


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to ViRGEdx
quote:
I should also add that in preparation for this, Comcast ceased encrypting all of the Digital Starter channels. I have heard that the DTAs have a security module, but since it's not a separable module the FCC won't allow its use. As it stands it can only pick up unencryped channels, so it can not pick up any premium channels.
That right there is very interesting! If they would just broadcast clear QAM all the stuff they used to have on the analog side, then a consumer could decide to upgrade to (or just use) a clear qam TV, or even buy a third-party clear QAM tuner box. Or rent one from comcast for $2/mo.

Before I left here in the bay area they were encrypting all channels except for the rebroadcast locals and a few cable access & shopping channels.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Travelfan1
RIP Analog Go Digital

join:2005-08-23
Woodbridge, NJ
reply to ViRGEdx
virgex >> Thanks for your replies, they really help.

cableric & miscdude >> Welcome to this forum as full-fledged members!

virgex >> Back to the RF picture not being up to par with the picture coming out of the other digital box with anything else, other than RF: That's interesting, my experience is very different than yours. I have a Moto 6412 PII HD DVR that's currently connected to a analog TV. I tried all possible connections and I could not notice any difference between RF out or composite. S-Video was the only one that made a difference, so that's what I've been using. Have you tried to connect your analog TV that's connected to the DCT moto full fledge box via RF out? Or, a better question, how is your DCT moto box connected to your TV? I am wondering if the TV brand/model may play a role in the quality of the picture that's displayed using the RF connection.
--
COMCAST of New Jersey II(Union) - Dead last in HD channels in NY metro area! Only 26 HD channels, compared to 102 for Fios and over 50 for Directv, Dish, Time Warner and Cablevision!
Verizon DSL


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
reply to miscDude
said by miscDude:

Philly launched the DTA's??

Interesting, guess that means you guys in Philly may actually get some more HD finally!
Well, Sellersville...don't know where that is in relation to you...
--
Eric
Pace Americas, Inc.

(The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Pace Americas, Inc.)


psujim

join:2007-10-10
Reading, PA
Sellersville is in Bucks County I do believe...So, looks like it might actually be the Bucks County region...


polo

@comcast.net
Comcast Sellersville office,It it looks like a local office not a Headend.Click on Birds eye for best view.

»maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuMTE0K1JpZ ··· NTkzNzU=

ak3883

join:2005-08-20
Horsham, PA
reply to ViRGEdx
Interesting. Someone else a couple weeks ago said they were installing SDV equipment at the Bensalem headend. Now Sellersville is getting equipment to handle DTAs, cool!

If I ever hear anything from Comcast(I'm in Bensalem) I'll pass it along but I always read about things on this site before Comcast bothers telling us(if at all)

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25

1 edit
reply to Travelfan1
said by Travelfan1:

virgex >> Back to the RF picture not being up to par with the picture coming out of the other digital box with anything else, other than RF: That's interesting, my experience is very different than yours. I have a Moto 6412 PII HD DVR that's currently connected to a analog TV. I tried all possible connections and I could not notice any difference between RF out or composite. S-Video was the only one that made a difference, so that's what I've been using. Have you tried to connect your analog TV that's connected to the DCT moto full fledge box via RF out? Or, a better question, how is your DCT moto box connected to your TV? I am wondering if the TV brand/model may play a role in the quality of the picture that's displayed using the RF connection.
Before installing the CTA in its final resting spot, I did test it on my older 30" Sony CRT. Compared to the Moto DCH70 using composite, the quality is a bit worse; the picture flutters a bit more if nothing else. It's nothing dramatic, but if you've ever compared an older game console using RF or composite for example, it's the same thing. Like I said, ultimately the image quality isn't anything to write home about.

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25
reply to ViRGEdx
It turns out there's a diagnostics page if you hold down the Info button for 6 seconds or so. I apologize once again for the poor quality of the photos.









cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·ProLog
Nice!

So it can download code modules. I would imagine it could do privacy mode encryption if told to do so. It also knows the time, so maybe one day in the future (with an update)pushing info will tell you the time along with the channel and call letters.

For being able to take code and execute it, I wonder if there actually is enough memory and processing to run even a really simple sort of EPG.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
said by cypherstream:

I would imagine it could do privacy mode encryption if told to do so.
Yes they can, but if cc WAS to use it, then they're running afoul of the "no integrated secruity" mandate for cable set-tops.


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
said by dishrich:

said by cypherstream:

I would imagine it could do privacy mode encryption if told to do so.
Yes they can, but if cc WAS to use it, then they're running afoul of the "no integrated secruity" mandate for cable set-tops.
Ahhh, loopholes...there are ALWAYS loopholes.

Comcast isn't stupid. It's not a two way addressable box, it does not, and will not, have any interactive services. Technically speaking there is no Conditional Access built into the box. Privacy Mode is encryption... but depending on how it is defined, it may not be considered CA.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
said by cableric:

Ahhh, loopholes...there are ALWAYS loopholes.
Well god ONLY knows if there IS one, cc WILL use it.

Comcast isn't stupid.
Well we could also argue about THAT all night, but...

It's not a two way addressable box, it does not, and will not, have any interactive services. Technically speaking there is no Conditional Access built into the box. Privacy Mode is encryption... but depending on how it is defined, it may not be considered CA.
Whatever - the bottom line is, IF these channels ARE encrypted in ANY way, that requires the use of a authorized converter/receiver/box (ie: NOT a plain QAM tuner), & THESE units are capable of "decrypting" them, then these units ARE, in fact, running an "integrated security system". I don't care if it's addressed/non-addressed/access card/punchcard/internal jumpers/whatever - if this is NOT the case, then why is there all the talk about the digital signals of expanded basic NOW starting to be sent out in clear QAM.


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO

1 edit
if this is NOT the case, then why is there all the talk about the digital signals of expanded basic NOW starting to be sent out in clear QAM.
I can't won't speak to Comcast's plans...

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to dishrich
said by dishrich:

I don't care if it's addressed/non-addressed/access card/punchcard/internal jumpers/whatever - if this is NOT the case, then why is there all the talk about the digital signals of expanded basic NOW starting to be sent out in clear QAM.
I believe this is what you are referring to?

»www.lightreading.com/document.as ··· site=cdn

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25
reply to dishrich
said by dishrich:

Whatever - the bottom line is, IF these channels ARE encrypted in ANY way, that requires the use of a authorized converter/receiver/box (ie: NOT a plain QAM tuner), & THESE units are capable of "decrypting" them, then these units ARE, in fact, running an "integrated security system". I don't care if it's addressed/non-addressed/access card/punchcard/internal jumpers/whatever - if this is NOT the case, then why is there all the talk about the digital signals of expanded basic NOW starting to be sent out in clear QAM.
My understanding is that if Comcast can't use the DTA's security module, then they have no choice - if they want to have DTAs they can not encrypt the channels those DTAs are to get. The encryption change out here certainly doesn't seem to be coincidental with the arrival of the DTAs.