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cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
reply to AVonGauss

Re: Digital Transport Adapter Unboxing Photos

I believe this is what you are referring to?

»www.lightreading.com/document.as ··· site=cdn
Yep. If they don't get the go ahead for P.M. expect trapping on a fairly large scale.

kevcallaway

join:2005-11-05
reply to ViRGEdx
So if someone had the new Digital Economy package....where you get Basic channels + select Expanded channels (ex. USA, CNN, Fox News, Disney) simulcast digitally....

could you use the DTA for a 2nd or 3rd TV?

Would you be able to receive the Music Choice channels too?

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25
said by kevcallaway:

So if someone had the new Digital Economy package....where you get Basic channels + select Expanded channels (ex. USA, CNN, Fox News, Disney) simulcast digitally....

could you use the DTA for a 2nd or 3rd TV?

Would you be able to receive the Music Choice channels too?
I have no idea as to what the "Digital Economy" package is. Our lowest package is Digital Starter, which is effectively expanded basic + about a dozen more channels. Anyhow, the DTA would be able to receive the Digital Starter lineup, it does not get the music channels however.


Travelfan1
RIP Analog Go Digital

join:2005-08-23
Woodbridge, NJ
VIRGEdx, that's what the package is in NJ:

»NJ: Digital Economy Package - 12/01/08

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25
said by Travelfan1:

VIRGEdx, that's what the package is in NJ:

»NJ: Digital Economy Package - 12/01/08
Nah, that's a good deal smaller than our Digital Starter package. Excluding the Limited Basic channels, I get something like 50 additional channels. Your economy package is much smaller.


sansri88
digital is here
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
kudos:1
No, those are two different tiers.

We also have Digital Starter, but they started offering the Digital Economy as well.

kevcallaway

join:2005-11-05
reply to ViRGEdx
said by ViRGEdx:

said by Travelfan1:

VIRGEdx, that's what the package is in NJ:

»NJ: Digital Economy Package - 12/01/08
Nah, that's a good deal smaller than our Digital Starter package. Excluding the Limited Basic channels, I get something like 50 additional channels. Your economy package is much smaller.
So minus the Music choice, could the DTA tune in the other channels in the Digital Economy pkg?


narunetto

@comcast.net
reply to ViRGEdx
Do you know when Seattle will be going to do this? Also, since everything is supposedly going to be put in the clearQAM then doesnt that mean if you have the lowest package, you might be able to get some of the channels if you have limited basic?


cableric

join:2008-12-03
Castle Rock, CO
said by narunetto :

Do you know when Seattle will be going to do this? Also, since everything is supposedly going to be put in the clearQAM then doesnt that mean if you have the lowest package, you might be able to get some of the channels if you have limited basic?
Dec. 15th

lupus

join:2001-08-01
Bellevue, WA
reply to ViRGEdx
Currently, I have only expanded basic. I'm also using MythTV with two analog capture cards and an HDHomerun for recording in the clear HD broadcasts on my Mac.

Anyone know if these will still work?


rv65
Premium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1
The DTA doesn't support encryption yet so it those channels will be in Clear QAM. Thats if the FCC grants them a waiver that allows them to turn on the privacy mode.


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
reply to ViRGEdx
When Kevin Martin is out of the FCC, they will probably allow Privacy Mode encryption.



sansri88
digital is here
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
kudos:1
Kevin Martin needs to gtfo and let these cable companies do what they need to remove analog, add more HD, and keep it not that expensive.

removable security compliance was the worst thing i've seen.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
In fairness, it wasn't Kevin Martin's decision - it goes back over a decade ago. The original intent was to create an open market for the STB that would allow consumers to purchase affordable boxes and not pay monthly rental fees. Which, ironically, is one of the challenges cable companies are now facing attempting to go digital - all those customers without a cable box.

ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25
reply to ViRGEdx
I have some more hidden diagnostics pages. The following pages are accessed by pressing 1-2-3 once you're already in the diagnostic menu.







The first page, the channel table, could be very interesting as an alternative to needing to hunt for channels whenever Comcast moves something. However I have no idea how to get to the additional pages of it; the channel buttons instead go to the next diagnostic page.

Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI

1 edit
reply to ViRGEdx
Ok a couple questions, I live in Michigan and they are doing this pretty soon, first what is privacy mode? Second I have a honest question I will prob get a answer that I will expect, but If you pay for a digital preferred or a premier (higher) packages, and pay the higher price, Why do they have to charge your min 6.95 for every tv you want to watch it on. I thought you pay the higher price, you should get the extra channels you pay for on every tv maybe a 1-2 dollar charge on the boxes, but why 7? Why not let us buy are own digital boxes like they do HSI modems. To me its all a money game. I also want to know these DTA's ( I will have to get ) so I get 2 free, and pay 1.99 for the extra other tv I have and Im set? So they actually have to activate these (lol) Im going to laugh when I go to work at the liquor store one day in detroit and watch all the customers walk in "YO MAN I WOKE UP TODAY AND MY STOLEN CABLE DON'T WORK NO MORE THEY F'ED US OVER MY MAN" Can't wait.

So yeah Wanted to know why?

edit: one more question, do newer tvs have the power to switch from digital to analog while just plugging in the cable wire? Like do they have DTA's built in or some sort of thing that does this. I would think so, or are they planning in the near future to do this, It would just make things like it is now with no worries. I can also see the cable companies getting greedy and tvs not doing this because now they have a new thing to make money off of, RENT BOXES LOL!

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL

1 recommendation

There are currently a number of TV's on the market currently with QAM tuners built in to allow them to tune clear-qam stations. Currently, that is what the DTA's are doing, tuning the clear qam stations.

Privacy mode encryption is a really basic encryption method. while I don't know the specifics, think of it as almost a rot-13 type of encryption where things are scrambled just enough to prevent someone from just picking it up, but it's not as tight and secure as the regular encryption used on your current cable box. (currently it's used on things like porn VOD to keep someone from getting porn in the clear)

One of the primary reasons encryption is used is because of demands by content companies that an MSO "protect" their content. As things go digital, there is the fear by the content companies that people would be able to steal too-high a quality copy of thier content. It is also used by the MSO's as a way of creating different service levels without the need for old-school RF traps on a line.

The FCC mandated that cable-co's seperate the security functions of their boxes from the tuning aspects. This is what brought us the cablecard. Today because of the cost, and low adoption rates of cablecards by consumers purchasing cable-card enabled devices, there are very few options available on the market for devices you can purchase and decrypt encrypted cable channels. These days your options are limited to TiVO's and usually higher-end TV's. The biggest problem with the cablecard spec is it did not address the 2-way capabilities of the modern cable plant. As a result, all current cablecard devices are one-way only, which prevents you from getting things like VoD or other interactive services. Tru2Way which is starting to be deployed should remedy this by allowing you to purchase 2-way capable cablecard devices. I've heard of the first DVR's coming sometime during the first quarter 09.

In many ways, the MSO's would like to get rid of (or at least, scale down massively) the need for customers to rent a full-fledge cable box from them. The overhead required in maintaining, repairing, stocking, and staffing the internal support structure for those boxes mean that it is not as large a profit generator as many people may think. Something I like to point out to people is that with a standard def box you tend to pay $6-$9/mo for the box rental fee. That includes your guide information. With a Tivo you pay around $7/mo for their guide. The guide isn't free and there are licensing costs involved to provide it (as well as the macrovision and other royalties that are paid). The monthly costs you pay for the guide to either an MSO or a 3rd party like TiVO tend to be pretty comperable. (And that doesn't get into the attempts to recoup the cost of the equiptment or it's back-end overhead in MSO box rental)

Does this answer some of your questions?

Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI
Yea thanks, just was wondering if you where saying that companies would most likely have you not have a box for every tv because its a hassle or they would?

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
Ultimately you will probably end up needing some type of box for each TV to receive the full lineup of your cable plan, the form that box takes however may be different than what we see today.

Analog is going away. That's pretty much a given. Cable is also the only pay-tv provider that does not currently require a seperate box for each TV. As the Analog goes away, you will need some type of box.

The current plan is the DTA's will help replace the analog "expanded basic" functionality of your "extra" sets currently in a much cheaper format. Think of this as Comcast equivalent of the OTA boxes you can get coupons for.

Now the box you will need for each TV could be a comcast provided box, a tru2way device, a DTA, A clear-QAM TV, and a current-gen Cablecard device. MSO's are attempting to get away from the RF Traps because they require a truck-roll anytime a service change is made, and they can also cause problems with your service. (Trap goes bad, or gets forgotten about, and you all of a sudden have MAJOR RF issues in your home). RF Traps also aren't precise. While they block completely the channels they are designed to block, they will also have an effect on adjacent channels. In the analog world this wasn't that big a deal because at worst you might see a slightly snowy-er picture on the advancent channel. In the digital systems it could cause major macro-blocking or no picture at all problems on any channel being carried on that RF channel. Plus, RF traps are expensive since they have to be custom ordered by the MSO based off their frequency plan and needs.


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·ProLog
Well as of today, you can now own a new 500GB MOXI DVR.

That is if you want to spend $799 for it's award winning interface and know that you *own* it.
»www.amazon.com/Digeo-Interactive ··· 1GQ8MT8/

Product Description
You've just bought a brand-new HD TV to go with a digital cable subscription. Now it's time to get the most out of it. The Moxi HD DVR is the perfect companion, bringing together content from your digital cable provider, your PC, and the Internet for display on your TV. You'll access it all through the Moxi Menu, the only user interface with HD graphics and an Emmy® Award. Designed to work with a Multi-Stream CableCARD, the Moxi HD DVR goes beyond a 500 GB HD DVR to deliver a music jukebox, photo display, game arcade and news browser, all with no monthly fees. The Moxi Menu gives you the power features you want with an interface that feels familiar after just a few minutes. The one-level menu, with the addition of turbo scroll, makes it easy to find content, and the Mini TV let's you keep an eye on your current show. TV 'Filters' such as HD, News, Kids, Movies, Sports, and Music let you browse just the types of programs you're interested in, and a preview panel makes it easy to see what's on next. In full screen TV, the Flip Bar gives you a mini program guide to browse your other options. The Moxi HD DVR lets you search by Title, by Category, or by Keyword. You can record one show while watching another, or record two shows while playing back a third. Record individual shows or entire series, or first run shows only. You'll find all of your recorded shows in one list for easy access and management. The Moxi HD DVR also turns your TV into an HD photo display and music jukebox. Enjoy photos and music from your PC or access content from Flickr® or Finetune. Associating your PC's playlists with a photo slideshow creates a truly multimedia experience. With SuperTickerTM and MoxiNet, you'll have two ways to browse Internet content like news, sports, financial and entertainment info, weather, and local listings like movie times. You've got your HD TV; now, unleash your HD life with a Moxi HD DVR. For more information, please visit www.moxi.com.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to miscDude
said by miscDude:

In many ways, the MSO's would like to get rid of (or at least, scale down massively) the need for customers to rent a full-fledge cable box from them. The overhead required in maintaining, repairing, stocking, and staffing the internal support structure for those boxes mean that it is not as large a profit generator as many people may think.
I agree with most of what you said except for the quoted part above. While I agree the monthly rental fee is not the huge profit center that most people think that it is, I don't see MSOs trying to get away from the more traditional cable box anytime soon. For them, it is a platform and hence another venue for them to generate revenue (PPV, VOD). I also believe that is what has driven the over-engineering and complexity with OCAP which in turn has resulted in a lukewarm reception of OCAP.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL

1 edit
reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream:

Well as of today, you can now own a new 500GB MOXI DVR.

That is if you want to spend $799 for it's award winning interface and know that you *own* it.
Yea, I just saw this tonight on a full-page ad in my CES Pre-show Planner I just received. I thought deja-vu - they showed a previous version at LAST years CES & (obviously) NOTHING came of them.

Sorry, sight unseen, I'll pass on this one too, thank you much!


owine
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Chicago, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to ViRGEdx
I am confused how DTAs will affect me. I am a college student on a college campus living in the dorms. Currently we get extended basic (with locals in HD cia QAM) on the dorms. We cannot order cable in the dorms and get digital/HD boxes. If Comcast were to migrate most channels to digital, would I be out of luck and still need a DTA even though my TV has a QAM tuner or would I be able to pick up the channels using my TV's QAM tuner? Any help clearing this up is appreciated.

miscDude

join:2005-03-24
Kissimmee, FL
reply to AVonGauss
said by AVonGauss:

I agree with most of what you said except for the quoted part above. While I agree the monthly rental fee is not the huge profit center that most people think that it is, I don't see MSOs trying to get away from the more traditional cable box anytime soon. For them, it is a platform and hence another venue for them to generate revenue (PPV, VOD). I also believe that is what has driven the over-engineering and complexity with OCAP which in turn has resulted in a lukewarm reception of OCAP.
Ah, but with tru2way devices coming out, Your TV becomes that platform enabling access to PPV and VoD, and other 2 way interactive services. They won't be completely getting away from providing the boxes because not everybody will have a tru2way capable device, but they will be able to scale down a bit.

Owine,

Sometimes in situations like that, the college campus may have a deal/contract in place with the MSO to provide cable services to the student. Depending on the way the plant and everything is set up, they could start providing DTA's to the students.... or if the school has it's own node, they could even just set it up to continue broadcasting analog on the campus since they don't need to worry about the bandwidth crunch as much on that campus since noone can get digital services anyways.

ak3883

join:2005-08-20
Horsham, PA
reply to owine
I think you have nothing to worry about. The school likely would negotiate some kind of deal where just within campus, they keep analog cable. It's probably not a wise idea for a college campus to have to introduce DTAs, risk them getting damaged, etc etc. They would possibly have to distribute them with room keys, or bolt them to the wall, or something.


owine
Premium
join:2002-08-29
Chicago, IL
reply to ViRGEdx
Thanks for the help. We're kind of a small campus so I don't know how we're setup, but hopefully we get to keep all our channels.

Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI

1 edit
reply to ViRGEdx
I just found out my city in Michigan will get these DTA boxrs around the next year-2 years because we are like last onthe list for this digital migration. I am happy, other then that Detroit is like 2 hours from here and they had it done first, my guess is to piss off everyone stealing cable there haha.


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
said by Chaldo:

I just found out my city in Michigan will get these DTA boxrs around the next year-2 years because we are like last onthe list for this digital migration. I am happy, other then that Detroit is like 2 hours from here and they had it done first, my guess is to piss off everyone stealing cable there haha.
What list?

Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI
reply to ViRGEdx
I am actually not sure, I called in for a HSI problem, and asked the question since the rep I was talking to was really smart. So I asked him if you knew anything about it he said oh you live in West Bloomfield, I live in Ann arbor and I believe both are cities are down in the list of where they are doing the digital migration next. I asked him are you sure he said they already did it to parts of Detroit, and he's pretty sure my city wont get it for another year or two ( I think hes just making that up ) but yea thats what I heard.

Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI
reply to ViRGEdx
Question: This is really getting me confused, Ok I have 4 tvs we use in my house, 1 has a digital box the rest are just hooked with cable. I want to know when the digital migration happens in my area, I will have to get 3 of these DTA's? What I want to know is I hear roomers that newer tvs already switch the signal from digital to analog so you wont need these boxes is that correct? I hear newer Tv's have a advantage somehow, anyone know how?