Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| reply to drew
Re: WaveBroadband Torrent Throttling??!!!
I'd rather not say but it's internal corporate.
As to the capping, it's not 1.5mbps. I'm getting capped at between a fluctuating 150kbps and 300kbps. If I was getting capped at 1.5mbps I might not have as major a complaint but as it stands my internet is almost unusable even if it's a "stopgap" measure till they increase capacity.
As a new customer who moved into the Astound service area and left a decent provider for this crap it really doesn't give me a good impression of this company and the way they handle business. I've decided to cancel Astound and switch. I'm still within 30 days of service and don't know how they handle cancellations. I can't find any mention of termination fees or contracts anywhere.
I've already put in a call to my old provider for DRY Loop DSL 3.0-6.0 and hopefully they can arrive soon. I'll be paying damn near twice what I pay for cable but it's truly unlimited as it's a business class DSL account and that peace of mind is worth it to me. Astound was ready to have my money even with 300GB caps but the daily caps and incredibly low speed broke the camel's back. |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| reply to drew
said by drew  :There is in no way in which a 300gb monthly cap would prohibit you from telecommuting. The only people who use that kind of bandwidth legitimately are software/music/movie pirates. There are the odd-people out like video editors or whatever, but they should be on a business class connection for their business. I'll be the first to say that yes you actually can reach the cap on a 10/1 account or lesser and very easily. I do in fact use my internet connection rather heavily to watch TV, game, IM, upload and download photos, purchase music, games, and stream movies. When you have multiple people in a household the cap goes rather fast. Unless you're just using your internet for email, IM, and surfing a 1980s text only site would you ever need less than 100 GB.
Now 300GB is a lot of data and I can and do hit over that amount. Given that this is a combined upload and download you can break it easily if you do graphics design, web design, video editing and a lot of back and forth in addition to your daily surfing and web habits.
At work I can routinely run up to a GB of data from sql and excel reports. If I had to download and upload the results to a server from a telecommute I'd hit 2 GB a day just from reporting. My email gets around 50-100 MB a day in received and sent screenshots and files. I would break 3GB before noon and hit this 150k cap until 24 hours later and it would destroy my ability to transfer data. If I used this much at home I would say yea I would need a business class account. Comcast offers a business account but the 250GB hard cap remains from the residential packages. Astound does not offer a business account on thier site which may just be an oversight and calls to their Customer Service may yield different results.
I would agree that a lot of users who breach 300GB are engaged in grey area behavior. If you're using the internet to pirate crap you're getting a good deal on your movies, games, music, or whatever and a few bucks for 10GB won't kill you but the daily cap will. I have issues with the pay per GB model in that it will make some people pay twice for the data. Once from the merchant and again to download. It's like a tax on using the internet. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
 ·wavebroadband
| 10GB/day is an incredibly large amount of data. Even the a top-bitrate encode of a netflix HD movie is ~2.5GB for a 90 minute movie. You'd have to watch 4 of those to hit that amount in a single day.. and do it every day.
SD is significantly less. Gaming is not very bandwidth intensive -- it's all about latency. IM is simply text. Photos? How many photos are you possibly uploading every day? Even the expansion for World of Warcraft that came out recently fit on a single DVD. Purchasing music from iTunes isn't a huge thing as the files aren't even lossless.
It would take quite a large amount of effort to hit that kind of cap by doing purely legitimate activities. And in fact, I have no problem with those who use more, pay more. Happens with your power bill, no? |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| said by drew :10GB/day is an incredibly large amount of data. Even the a top-bitrate encode of a netflix HD movie is ~2.5GB for a 90 minute movie. You'd have to watch 4 of those to hit that amount in a single day.. and do it every day. SD is significantly less. Gaming is not very bandwidth intensive -- it's all about latency. IM is simply text. Photos? How many photos are you possibly uploading every day? Even the expansion for World of Warcraft that came out recently fit on a single DVD. Purchasing music from iTunes isn't a huge thing as the files aren't even lossless. It would take quite a large amount of effort to hit that kind of cap by doing purely legitimate activities. And in fact, I have no problem with those who use more, pay more. Happens with your power bill, no? Multiple person household.
Every assumption is based on 1 person. Add 1-2 additional people into the mix who are heavy users also and you're boned LOL. I've got a friend who does a lot of photo editing and deals with RAWs back and forth. I've got a stay at home GF who uses it net as much as I do. Shit adds up fast.
My single largest data usage is TV shows and movies. HD is 3.6MB per second. 1 hour is 1.3GB give or take. If I watch 3 hours of HD I'm already at 4GB just by myself not taking into account other users in the household.
For me this isn't about money. I am more than willing and capable of paying for more usage but it's kind of hard to do that with a 3GB cap now isn't it.
This kind of crap only affects people who solely reply on internet based entertainment and you'll notice the only companies putting caps on are AT&T, Comcast, and Wave. There's a common thread here. They all provide TV services. If you're getting your movies from netflix, TV from Apple store, or other means then it's lost revenue for them if you don't subscribe to TV service. I personally don't have cable. I don't need to pay for TV that I don't use. I don't want to pay 100 dollars for the privilege of getting 100 reality shows, 25 shopping channels, 25 sports channels, and the 5 channels I want to watch when I can get "On Demand" better from the internet rather than from a cable provider. Cable companies realize this and are implementing measures to curb HD usage and force people onto their cable packages for entertainment. There's a lot of stuff I watch that I can't get on normal TV or stuff that isn't in current circulation.
Just give me a solid unfettered connection and I'll be happy to pay someone the money for what I want when I want it along with my internet. Don't cap my internet and throttle because you can't provide decent TV at a decent rate.
Cable companies smell the death of their business model and are trying to restrict internet usages to save their own asses because of people like me. Maybe they should have sunk some money into infrastructure or better programming or developing a better on demand library. I really think that cable companies are about to hit anti trust territory with these actions. Comcast already has with VOIP QOS issues with the blocking of anything other than their own VOIP due to packet interference and throttling. They are paid to deliver internet not tell us what we can and can't do with it.
Whew too much ranting today.
/steps off of his soapbox. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| In less developed areas (non FTTH), asking to be able to stream two HD content streams at the same time for a significant portion of time is far fetched.
The 3GB/day cap has already been determined to be a stop-gap until they get the equipment and pipe they need to get rid of it. |
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kamidake
@surewest.net
| Actually drew, the 3GB/day cap was for the Sacramento area. And people in the bay area are having the same issues. Sure that's related?
Also I can also say that WITHOUT getting illegal binaries, it is EASILY possible to hit 10GB/day. For example, my wife subscribes to a Japanese TV site and downloads .wmv files (entire shows or movies) and watches them on her computer offline. Usage: 5GB/day.
I watch about 3hrs of HD video a day. Usage: 4GB/day
I work from home and download large files for engineering. Usage: 1.5GB day.
Also stream music and video as well as get linux distros, updates, etc etc. 0.5 GB/day
Other browsing 0.5GB/day
So my average total is... 11.5GB/day If I do anything abnormal, I will be over that. Sometimes I buy software online and download it instead of getting a DVD version. Those days I might be up to 20GB in a day. Basically yes I am a heavy user, (more than average) but I am still legal and all my uses are valid.
So I don't want to hear garbage like it's impossible to use more than 10GB per day. And in my case, it usually involves more than one person using the connection.
I'm just glad I'm on UNLIMITED DSL now. Life can't be better. You seem like a poor soul trying to justify paying high prices for such a limited connection |
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Sandman423
@sbcglobal.net
| reply to Max010101
First and For most thank you kamidake and everyone for this post...
I know I have posted a couple posts before on what I should get. I am living in the Bay Area and I am about to move into my own place with 2 roomates. We are ALL HEAVY Internet users and I work out of home.
My Main business is Video Editing for a small company as well as for my college.
I use a TON of Bandwidth because of such HUGE Projects I work on because Videos tend to be very high, as we all know, in size going from 2-4GB's easy and transferring them via Torrents/Rapidshare/Megaupload/etc.
I just made a video at home that was 2gb's today while listening to Slacker Radio. I am currently at my moms using the SBC DSL, which doesn't seem to have caps. We are very far away from the main office.
We are on the 3MB Plan Download and not sure what upload is but If I ever download anything the max D/L I get is like 350KB/ps and not sure on upload.
Anyways to make a long story short. I am a multimedia major in college and I am on a computer for very long hours for school and work and I use a ton of Bandwidth.
So should I go with just DSL? Which DSL Should I go for? The location for my new place is in Concord, Ca 94520 on Olivera Road...I live in the Bay Area and I want to not be limited to these ridiculous caps.
What to do? My friend tells me Astound, but the 300GB Cap is horrible and if they only let you get up to 3GBs a Day before they basically stop you from doing anything for a whole day.
Please help me make a decision. I mostly watch ALL my TV via Internet because I work 3 Jobs and I am in College and I never have the time to watch TV Live.
Please help.
Check out my speed with my torrent program open..Pretty crappy 3MB if you ask me
Thanks everyone |
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hi2
@wavecable.com
| reply to Matt22
 Hi all well looks like DSL is going to be the new and reliable internet connection for a lot of people! to me it looks like till things in this world gets better like jobs and so forth wave is going to cap everyone till things get better! hope that aint the case if wave is getting charge more for the internet then charge us and give us what we are paying for! i have business internet and i don't have cap on my ip. if i did thay would here from me. for what i am paying for. och. so if you need a lot of bandwidth then business internet is the way to go... remember you have a min to 15 to 30% loss to your line so if you have a 10mx1.5 15% loss would be 8.5x1.2 or 30% =7mx1.0 remember the line loss just my 2 cents happy surfing!  |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| reply to kamidake
You're using it for business... should be business class connection.
5GB/day in .wmvs? A 22-something minute .AVI encoded using DIVX sitting on my comuter is....179,224KB. So 175.02MB. That's 29.25 "half hour" (on network tv) episodes. 643 minutes of TV or 10.72 hours. Uh huh... That's SD, but expecting to be able to watch that much HD content is kind of asinine at this point in the technology. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs: | reply to Sandman423
Yet another example of someone using the home connection for business. Get business class, for your, you know, business. |
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hi2
@wavecable.com
| Hi all me again. for the gamers out there or for the web server hosts as far as what have been said that Washington so far does not have a cap on the internet as of now! if you are looking to host or run a small business out of your home and "NEED" LOt's OF BANDWIDTH then business is the way to go! i have had my 8mx1.5 for 4 years and only lost and had trouble with my service 5 times! i have a block of static ip and i use every bit of bandwidth with no problems. can't use home internet for running a game server which needs lots of bandwidth, download but mostly upload speed for the server to run smoothly. read the disclaimer."YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY" i know thats not what everyone wants to hear sorry. happy surfing! |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| reply to Sandman423
Sandman, Try DSL Extreme or Aircloud(local reseller for business class with no BS). You should be able to get 3.0-6.0 easily since the AT&T building and CO is down near Toto Santos Plaza IIRC. That's about 2 miles away. If you really want high speed some might offer bonded DSL but it gets pricey. By that point you're better off with cable and paying the overages.
Drew, seriously enough with trying to shoot down legitimate users. Some people just use the net more than others. We're in a freaking digital age and some people actually use their net connections for things other than looking up cookie recipes and sending emails once a day. Hundreds of companies are now relying on heavy data transfer business models and will be affected greatly by this. Netflix, Apple TV, Online Backup services etc.
One thing no one is talking about is the lower tiers. I'll bet that some households that are not net savvy and know what their netflix bandwidth usage is or have kids are gonna get hammered by this big time. Especially ones on lower plans.
Kamidake posted earlier:
18/2 - As posted on their site it's 300GB/month + $$ overage
10/1 - 100GB/month + $$
6/1 - 50GB/month + $$
This whole thing reeks of a money grab. Force everyone to jump up to higher tier plans or pay crazy overage charges all while they sit back and collect. Most major Backhual providers are double billing for the same data transfer. Once on the senders end and again on the receivers end and maybe somewhere in between. That GB of data you sent is actually being double maybe triple paid for so the cost of transfer is cheaper than you think. 5/10 is a fair consumer price considering most data centers will charge 1/1GB and comcast is thinking about 15/10GB but it's still an artificially created supply/demand situation.
How's this for funny.
At the 18/2 plan you pay $75 for 300GB or $.25 per GB
At the 10/1 plan you pay $55 for 100GB or $.55 per GB
At the 6/1 plan you pay $45 for 50GB or $.90 per GB
Tack on those overages and anyone on a 6/1 plan is SCREWED. for an equivalent 100GB they pay $80 and for 300GB they pay $170. This isn't about the cost of bandwidth it's about money. Squeeze your customers with hidden charges just like cellphone providers have been doing. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| Those services aren't geared towards those on last-gen technology. They're for people on FTTH and DOCSIS.
People are expecting to pay 1/2 their cable bill's price for their internet and to get all their cable content online for much cheaper. I don't think that's a reasonable request.
No one has shown me any kind of real-usage that would equate to fully legal activities breaking a 300gb/mo cap. It just doesn't happen. |
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madcowusa
join:2005-03-09
Port Orchard, WA | reply to Max010101
Sarthax, the voice of reason. Well said - agree 100%. |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| reply to drew
said by drew :Those services aren't geared towards those on last-gen technology. They're for people on FTTH and DOCSIS. Considering that only VERY VERY select people even have FFTH your claim that those services are not mean for FTTN is suspect. Netflix services are for broadband users. Just because the cablecos changed the rules midgame doesn't mean they didn't enter with an intent to service cable and DSL users. They offer UNLIMITED plans. You can watch however many movies you want whenever you want and with multiple plans you can watch on multiple computers.
said by drew :People are expecting to pay 1/2 their cable bill's price for their internet and to get all their cable content online for much cheaper. I don't think that's a reasonable request. Now it's unreasonable to expect your service that you've been able to use for the last few years to up and get more expensive overnight? Why? Bandwidth is cheaper today not more expensive. You're saying it's unreasonable to utilize your connection you've been sold in a way you see fit?
said by drew :No one has shown me any kind of real-usage that would equate to fully legal activities breaking a 300gb/mo cap. It just doesn't happen. You're obviously partisan or delusional. You don't think that 1 person can use 150GB a month in data in a 2 person household when that includes upload and download BOTH. I don't know what else people can say since you already seem to have made up your mind despite real world examples of how we consumers use our internet. I've heard 2 responses from you parroted over and over here.
Get business class and no one can use that much in a month.
I've said before you're wrong. I've tried to show how lower tiers affect people and you ignore what's been presented and just focus on the magical 300GB cap on the most expensive plan. REAL PEOPLE won't be paying for that plan. REAL PEOPLE are going to get hammered faster and harder because they don't know better. REAL PEOPLE have kids who are net savvy. REAL PEOPLE live with roomates 2-3 to a house.
You fail to address the reasoning behind these plans and accept that it's good for consumers. HOW? How is limiting innovation through restriction of use a good thing? It's not our fault the cablecos oversold bandwidth and didn't foresee the need for more bandwidth in the future but now we are expected to pay the price for lack of corporate vision and greed.
Cable companies don't pay for content on cable. They pay for infrastructure. Cablecos are oversold and they know it. They sold people on VOIP, On Demand, and Internet on the same pipes, promised higher speeds, and now they can't deliver and are charging us more via hidden fees. It's BS and you know it. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| I never once claimed that this was good for consumers. It's terrible. Why would a cable company be in the business of making it easy for you to drop their much more expensive service in favor of their cheaper service and using it significantly more? That is a terrible business model.
As for the FTTH vs FTTN, it was a typo on my part, my apologies. The keys are pretty close together. When looking at services like FIOS, that's when you start getting to a point where streaming tons of HD content is a reasonable request. The way a cable ISP works, your neighbor hates you for being a bandwidth hog.
Any TOS in the industry is going to do something to your speed or usage when you're impacting the service of other clients.
I've got a 360 with Netflix streaming. I download TV shows. Expecting to be able to do that essentially 24/7 is an unreasonable request.
When we're talking about finite (in the sense that they don't just flick a switch to get more) resources, how does a pay-per-byte system NOT make sense? Why should you not pay 3x more than I do when you use it 3x more than I do? I have the same bitch about my sewer bill. Why does the McMansion down the road with 2 parents and 5 kids pay the exact same for sewer service? I'm sure there's a lot more flushing and showering going on over there than in my house.
What it seriously comes down to is people are expecting a business to bend over and take it when your usage is up dramatically and that usage means you're canceling their other services. Not a reasonable request. |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| I'm not saying heavy users pay more isn't reasonable but this approach and the reason we are in the predicament is. I've already determined that I will pay more but just not to Astound due to their lack of upfront detail about their plans and bait and switch mid month considering I'm a new customer. I'll be paying a local reseller almost a hundred dollars a month for business class 3-6 DRY LOOP DSL.
Also I'm not sure about you, but my water bill does go up the more water I use. So more flushes does equate to a higher bill. Same goes for gas, electricity, and garbage. Water/Sewer is combined and includes sewage processing fee and additional sewage fees based on the amount of water used. You pay for the water in and the water out. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| That's not how my PUD works. The sewer bill is flat rate while your water is based on usage. This was one of the many conversations I had with one of the assistant commissioners that came into the WFB I worked at to make the daily deposit.
Trust me, I don't like bait and switch any more than you do, but this isn't really what it is. This is really just a "wrong place, wrong time" scenario unfortunately, and for that I'm sorry. My plan has a 50GB cap apparently. That sucks pretty bad, but who knows what's gonna happen. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs: | reply to Sarthax
»Wave Broadband Sloppily Employing Caps
I wrote some stuff up for Karl to make mention of it on the front page. People at these ISPs actually pay attention to the site... maybe we'll get some followup. |
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Sarthax
@wellsfargo.com
| Thanks Drew.
Best we can hope for is better disclosure of the policy or maybe affecting some minor changes to the caps for lower tier plans. I'm good with 300 on the 18/2 but they really need to reconsider the caps on 6/1 and 10/1. Even Comcast is 250 across the board and the day I that praised something Comcast did I figured would never come. LOL. |
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