Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21541528 en Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:08:36 EDT Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:08:36 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21596088 Karl Bode : Yes, weird how that works. You're a purveyor of child porn for disagreeing with me -- but I'm very, very upset when people engage in personal attacks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21596088 Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:41:26 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21593051 fatness :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It wouldn't be necessary if the default 1st choice of response of many posters wasn't personal attacks.
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?

--
goodbye dad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21593051 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:38:48 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21549533 Necronomikro :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by n0ym See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It wouldn't be necessary if the default 1st choice of response of many posters wasn't personal attacks.
Personal attacks are just that. They're not the same thing as ad hominem arguments.

Ad hominem remarks are attacks that are made in lieu of legitimate arguments. They're a form of distraction from the real issue.

In this case, you're being taken apart both by legitimate, logical responses and being made fun of.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_a···_abusive
Ad hominem abusive

Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.
Ad hominem as a logical fallacy is when an attack is made in lieu of an argument. However, using an ad-hominem attack after, or in the midst of an argument does not automatically nullify the content within the argument, and does not constitute a logical fallacy, though it may be bad form in a debate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21549533 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:36:14 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547311 russotto :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

But that is the excuse used by all child pornography purveyors - that it is art and should be ok.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547311 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:20:39 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547089 TKJunkMail :
said by n0ym See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It wouldn't be necessary if the default 1st choice of response of many posters wasn't personal attacks.
Personal attacks are just that. They're not the same thing as ad hominem arguments.

Ad hominem remarks are attacks that are made in lieu of legitimate arguments. They're a form of distraction from the real issue.

In this case, you're being taken apart both by legitimate, logical responses and being made fun of.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_a···_abusive
Ad hominem abusive

Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

--
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Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547089 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:46:31 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547053 n0ym :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

It wouldn't be necessary if the default 1st choice of response of many posters wasn't personal attacks.
Personal attacks are just that. They're not the same thing as ad hominem arguments.

Ad hominem remarks are attacks that are made in lieu of legitimate arguments. They're a form of distraction from the real issue.

In this case, you're being taken apart both by legitimate, logical responses and being made fun of.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21547053 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:39:44 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545876 n0ym :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by markwp2001 See Profile :

scumbag.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack

You are in a loop. Press reset.
You really don't get the "ad hominem" thing, do you?

Kinda makes it easy to understand why your ideas about art and pornography are so simplistic, though.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545876 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:47:58 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545199 james :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?
Tell me TK, do you support child pornography? No? Then why do you support the blocking of child porn websites rather than having them shut down/used to catch pedophiles?

Logically you must be a pedophile because you're protecting them by hiding them from the public but not shutting them down.

Oh no! Ad-hominem attack'd! Hey, don't get mad at me, you started it! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545199 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:23:43 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545160 james :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?
Nudity is not always pornography, and not all pornography involves nudity.

By your reasoning, any pictures of you as a child where you happen to be nude should be destroyed, as they are "child pornography" even if there is nothing sexual going on in the picture.

Face it, you conservatives are the ones with "sick" minds. You assign all this sexuality to things that have none.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545160 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:06:46 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544647 anon : I dont find it pornographic either. What did he say that was a personal attack?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544647 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:03:17 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545014 tubbynet :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?
it wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't used a logical fallacy to characterize karl and what he was trying to say.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

yes, believe it or not, i passed freshman english too :-)

q.

edited to add quote clarification

--
those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21545014 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:17:48 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544990 d25m03p : Just because puritan English speaking prudes think that a tastefully naked teenager girl is child porn doesn't mean that it is child porn in any other non-English speaking country or culture.

Why is it that English speaking countries call themselves enlightened, but are actually the biggest bigots (most of the time) throughout the known human universe?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544990 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:10:43 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544828 TKJunkMail :
said by Necronomikro See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by russotto See Profile :

[ How come it does to yours, I wonder???
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack
Wow, someone just discovered logical fallacies, and is shoe-horning everything into one. Congrats.
It wouldn't be necessary if the default 1st choice of response of many posters wasn't personal attacks.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544828 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:26:48 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544433 Necronomikro :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by russotto See Profile :

[ How come it does to yours, I wonder???
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack
Wow, someone just discovered logical fallacies, and is shoe-horning everything into one. Congrats.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21544433 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 21:59:36 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543447 33591094 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Wikipedia should just delete the album cover from the article if indeed it is a naked child portrayed sexually, which would be against all international laws on child pornography. Delete the pic and the problem goes away.
For someone who hasn't seen the image in question, you sure run your mouth.

Naked - yes.
Sexual? Maybe in your mind. :(
--
All trolls are equal, but A troll is more equal than others.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543447 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:55:08 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543416 Nightshade : I actually have that album. I am a big Eric Clapton fan, especially with his days with Cream.

I consider it a piece of artwork, hardly pornographic at all. Mostly because I do not consider breasts in any stage of development part of female genitalia.

said by Piggie See Profile :

Like I always said, if you like strict rules, there are still countries where you can immigrate to that will be glad to ban your problems.
Amen to that, at least in this country I can choose what art is in bad taste or not, not the government.

Edit: Well not yet.
--
The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543416 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:46:34 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543322 TKJunkMail :
said by russotto See Profile :

[ How come it does to yours, I wonder???
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543322 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:19:28 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543284 russotto :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

But that is the excuse used by all child pornography purveyors - that it is art and should be ok.
I don't find the image at all pornographic -- that is, it does not appeal at all to my prurient interest. How come it does to yours, I wonder???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543284 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:10:03 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543230 markwp2001 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by markwp2001 See Profile :

scumbag.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack

You are in a loop. Press reset.
No, just making sure you know what others think of you when you make such ridiculous accusations :uhh:
--
Palin is sofa king retarded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543230 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:57:34 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543171 TKJunkMail :
said by markwp2001 See Profile :

scumbag.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack

You are in a loop. Press reset.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543171 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:44:43 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543158 markwp2001 : You're the person who accused someone of defending child pornography, when they clearly weren't, scumbag.
--
Palin is sofa king retarded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543158 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:41:59 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543113 TKJunkMail :
said by markwp2001 See Profile :

Stupid question, even by your standards :uhh:
said by tubbynet See Profile :

well, in that warped neo-con logic
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack [att=1]
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543113 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:30:14 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543071 bender : i thought there was no law in germany in 1976?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543071 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:19:55 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543062 bender : did you say CP?

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543062 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:18:10 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542934 anon : Legally, the picture was legal at the time it was taken.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542934 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:14:21 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543019 markwp2001 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But that is the excuse of all closet fascists, that art which bothers their delicate sensibilities should be banned or thrown in a pile and burned.
So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?
Stupid question, even by your standards :uhh:
--
Palin is sofa king retarded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21543019 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:06:15 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542778 N3OGH : I wasn't speaking of the legality of it. You for all the people here should know damn well if anyone knows the legality of such issues, it would be me.

I was simply pointing out an interesting fact that others may not have touched on....
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542778 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:10:33 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542724 Piggie : Hey, lets ban AllMusic.com while we are at it.

»allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sq···xqq5ld6e

Guess Clapton, Windwood and Baker are just too old school to matter.

That is the reason we have a judicial system as least in the US to keep extremists from seeing everything as porn.

Yes it is Art. No it's not sexual.

Like I always said, if you like strict rules, there are still countries where you can immigrate to that will be glad to ban your problems.
--
| Speedstream 4200 Modem - 3m/384 plan | W98-W2KSP4-XPSP2 - All AMD | Buffalo WHR G54S with Tomato 1.18 | 3 downstream switches feeding 6 total clients (no wireless) | Including the Data port on the side of my neck |]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542724 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:55:05 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542292 Nightshade : But the question is the naked child being portrayed sexually?

When I look at the pic I see nothing sexual about it. There is no exposed genitalia. There is no suggestive motions or facial expressions being performed by the child at the time of the shooting of the picture.

Now with that said, I do think the original album cover was done in poor taste. But you can blame the record company for that one. It was their idea, not the band. The record company even said they will go to jail over it. According to the band, the album cover had nothing to do with the song.
--
The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21542292 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:17:49 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541973 TKJunkMail :
said by djrobx See Profile :

said by N3OGH See Profile :

On a side note, that girl's got to be in her mid 40's by now.......
If you read the wikipedia article, the woman who was the girl in the photo is fine with it.
Legally, that is completely irrelevant.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541973 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:56:41 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541897 djrobx :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

On a side note, that girl's got to be in her mid 40's by now.......
If you read the wikipedia article, the woman who was the girl in the photo is fine with it.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541897 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:38:28 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541842 anon : There was a huge flame war about this image a few months back. The upshot was that:

1) Wikipedia must comply with local laws to remove illegal content.
2) Wikipedia must not remove content for being legal but in bad taste, or every special interest group on the planet will have a field day.
3) Wikipedia, not being a law firm or a state, has no real way of telling whether something's illegal beyond the blatantly obvious cases.
4) This cover has been around for the last thirty years without being prosecuted, making it a not blatantly obvious case.

If you have any ideas on where to go from here, I'm all ears.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541842 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:35:30 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541807 anon : Yup. Apparently she was asked about this image about fifteen years ago, and was cool with it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541807 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:35:27 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541745 KrK :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

]But that is the excuse used by all child pornography purveyors - that it is art and should be ok.
No. Porn is porn. If you look at the cover, yes, it's controversial, and yes, some will find it offensive, but it's definitely art, and not porn.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541745 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:52:44 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541717 tubbynet :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?
said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yeah TK. AND the murder of puppies.
well, in that warped neo-con logic, you are either with him (and the *good* side), or with the terrorists (or whichever group is *not* the good side).

q.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541717 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:46:46 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541595 AVonGauss : If? Did you even look at the links referenced in the article before posting?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541595 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:09:28 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541591 Xizer :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But that is the excuse of all closet fascists, that art which bothers their delicate sensibilities should be banned or thrown in a pile and burned.
So you defend child pornography?
Yeah. Child pornography is awesome.

Socialism is great too. Free socialist CP for all!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541591 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:08:54 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541574 Karl Bode : Yeah TK. AND the murder of puppies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541574 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:05:02 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541571 TKJunkMail :
said by Karl Bode See Profile :

But that is the excuse of all closet fascists, that art which bothers their delicate sensibilities should be banned or thrown in a pile and burned.
So you defend child pornography - as long as it hides under the cover of being art?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541571 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:04:09 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541564 N3OGH : On a side note, that girl's got to be in her mid 40's by now.......
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541564 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:02:39 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541560 Karl Bode : But that is the excuse of all closet fascists, that art which bothers their delicate sensibilities should be banned or thrown in a pile and burned.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541560 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:02:09 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541528 TKJunkMail :
said by Steimes See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Wikipedia should just delete the album cover from the article if indeed it is a naked child portrayed sexually, which would be against all international laws on child pornography. Delete the pic and the problem goes away.
I think this one falls under the "art" protection. Even if the art was used to create controversy.


But that is the excuse used by all child pornography purveyors - that it is art and should be ok.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541528 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:54:41 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541520 Steimes :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Wikipedia should just delete the album cover from the article if indeed it is a naked child portrayed sexually, which would be against all international laws on child pornography. Delete the pic and the problem goes away.
I think this one falls under the "art" protection. Even if the art was used to create controversy.


--
Making procrastination an art form since Pluto was still a planet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541520 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:53:00 EDT Re: Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541515 P Ness : sigh talk about an over reaction....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541515 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:52:24 EDT Action justified if naked person on album cover is a child http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541505 TKJunkMail : Wikipedia should just delete the album cover from the article if indeed it is a naked child portrayed sexually, which would be against all international laws on child pornography. Delete the pic and the problem goes away.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21541505 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:48:53 EDT