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| Verizon DSL modems: Help me choose! --------------------------------------------------
Background
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I was at my father-in-law's apt last night, in Flushing, Queens, NYC. While initially there to help with a new flat panel tv setup, I eventually found out that his internet service (which he gets thru Verizon DSL) is appalingly slow: using the java speed test on this website, I measured 18 Kbs downloads (oddly enough, I also measured > 500 Kbs uploads; strange, very strange...). I called Verizon tech support twice, and the people were polite but technically ignorant, as if they were reading from scripts. But they did verify that there were no service issues in the area, and that the line quality to the apt looked good. So, the slow speed is likely due to some problem with our equipment or setup.
I could find nothing obviously wrong with the computer configuration. This is a dell box running XP sp3. I mainly just looked at the networking control panel, unchecked everything except Internet Protocol, and just looked at its properties; they were set to obtain IP address and DNS automatically, which is what Verizon said to use. I also did a quick virus scan with an updated copy of Symantec, and it found nothing. Anything else that I should have looked for?
My father-in-law has a strange network equipment setup: he has an ancient Westell DSL modem (it actually has a Bell Atlantic sticker on it) that was given to him free by a relative, as well as a Linksys VOIP router. He has abandoned VOIP, so that Linksys router is now unneeded. I tried connecting his computer directly to the DSL modem to see if that solved it, but now there is NO internet connectivity at all. Anyone know why? My guess was that maybe that DSL modem was not supporting DHCP or something, so I tried to configure it by its web interface, but every guess for its IP address (e.g. 192.168.1.1) that I tried failed to connect to it. Hmm, maybe its so old that it does not support web configuration?
So, I concluded that maybe I should buy him a new DSL modem/router combination. Hence this post.
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Questions
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1) Can I buy any third party DSL modem and expect it to work with Verizon, or do I need to buy a model from them or at least endorsed by them to expect things to work?
2) will all modern DSL modems have web interfaces that you can access over your LAN?
3) what kind of manual configuration do I need to do on my new DSL modem? Do I need to enter stuff like username, password, DNS etc?
4) instead of manual configuration, is auto configuration possible, as in, simply run a Verizon DSL installation CD? (See below for some more discussion)
5) assuming that I need to buy a DSL modem endorsed by Verizon, which such model do you guys like best? One of the tech people mentioned the Westell 7500, which it looks like I can buy used for $25
»newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sys/9···830.html
Do you guys like this model? A brief web search turns up tons of people complaining about issues with it (of course, there is self selection here: people with success stories do not post, only people with problems).
6) if any modern DSL modem can be used with Verizon, what models do you guys like and why?
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Verizon DSL installation CD
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Before giving up last night at my in-laws, I found their old Verizon installation CD. Its marked version 7.3.1.
I first tried to deinstall any previous version of Verizon software, since I like clean installs, but I was unable to find anything Verizon related in the add/remove programs control panel. Is it the case that the Verizon install CD does not install anything on your computer, but only modifies the DSL modem? That would be great if it was the case.
I next tried running that 7.3.1 install CD. It immediately failed with a dialog box coming up which complained about a missing ';' character in some script. Did a brief websearch, and found some other people with this problem, but did not find a solution to it. So I called Verizon a second time and asked for them to ship the latest version of their installer CD (which is 8.0). | |
| That old Westell likely has a Ready light and not a DSL light, and if so, it has no GUI to access, it is just a dumb modem.
In NY the WAN connection type will be PPPoE. The ISP username and password are required to authenticate the connection, a job most probably being done by that Linksys router.
To connect using that modem without the Linksys router, with the PC connected to the Westell, you will need to, in XP, in Network Connections, create a new connection - a Broadband connection, (commonly called a "dialer" or "connectoid" or "ppp shim"), and set it to do the PPPoE connection. The PC will get the public IP.
Yes basically any ADSL/ADSL2 compatible "modem" will work.
Usually if the "modem" has a GUI is has a built in router.
The installation software does attempt auto-configuration, and does install software on the PC. If this software is installed it will be visible and removable in Control Panel. The Internet connection is not affected by removing the software.
--
reboot, reset, reconfigure, then recycle. | |
 Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:21
 ·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to aceOfWands
quote:
1) Can I buy any third party DSL modem and expect it to work with Verizon, or do I need to buy a model from them or at least endorsed by them to expect things to work?
Yes, any modem will work. If you can, go for a modem that supports ADSL2+. If ADSL2+ is not available, it'll fall to whatever is available.
quote:
2) will all modern DSL modems have web interfaces that you can access over your LAN?
Most modems these days come with some sort of interface. They do still make dumb modems out there though since some people, especially here use them.
quote:
3) what kind of manual configuration do I need to do on my new DSL modem? Do I need to enter stuff like username, password, DNS etc?
As far as configuration, you'd only need to know the VPI/VCI setting for Verizon which is 0/35, and since you're in a PPPoE area I'm sure, you'll need to set the modem up to use PPPoE and have the Verizon username and password on hand to enter in for the PPPoE username and password. As far as DNS and everything, once the PPPoE is connected, the modem will take care of the rest.
quote:
4) instead of manual configuration, is auto configuration possible, as in, simply run a Verizon DSL installation CD? (See below for some more discussion)
Well, many modems I believe do come with CDs themselves to help you set them up, but either way even logging into the modem might load up a Wizard. I know that the Westell modem I have when you reset it has a connection setup that will guide you through everything.
quote:
5) assuming that I need to buy a DSL modem endorsed by Verizon, which such model do you guys like best? One of the tech people mentioned the Westell 7500, which it looks like I can buy used for $25
»newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sys/9···830.html
Do you guys like this model? A brief web search turns up tons of people complaining about issues with it (of course, there is self selection here: people with success stories do not post, only people with problems).
If you can get your hands on a Westell 6100, it's what I use and what has never failed me or anyone else who I know has DSL, old or new. I have one of the older bulky ones and it works great. A Westell 2200 is a good modem as well, however that's quite dated.
quote:
6) if any modern DSL modem can be used with Verizon, what models do you guys like and why?
I haven't needed to buy any modem so I can't suggest anything. See what other people here say. | | |
|
| reply to Bytebender
Thanks for your reply. I especially appreciate learning these two items:
That old Westell likely... has no GUI to access, it is just a dumb modem. and
To connect using that modem without the Linksys router, with the PC connected to the Westell, you will need to, in XP, in Network Connections, create a new connection - a Broadband connection, (commonly called a "dialer" or "connectoid" or "ppp shim"), and set it to do the PPPoE connection. The PC will get the public IP. | |
| reply to Smith6612
Smith6612: thanks much for all of your detailed answers.
I think that I would like to get a Westell 7500, or something like it, simply because I would like to have the router integrated into the modem. It will save space and make life simpler.
I definitely want the router side of the device to support not only wired ethernet, but also fast wireless (e.g. up thru at least 802.11g, altho 802.11n would be nicer...).
Anyone have modem/router combo recommendations? | |
| reply to aceOfWands
One strange thing: I cannot find the official specs on the Westell 7500 anywhere. Googling and looking at the first several pages turned up nothing. Shockingly, going directly to Westell's bad website also turned up nothing (a search with 7500 as the keyword turned up exactly 3 documents, none of them relevant; wow...)
Anyone know where those specs can be found? | |
 Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Don't know where to find them, but what type of things are you looking for? Given the usage you've described, I can't think of anything that the 7500 (or 327w or GT704 for that matter) won't do. | |
| Nuts!
said by Jodokast96:but what type of things are you looking for? Confirm that it is ADSL2+, that it supports at least 802.11g, that it has a stateful firewall, etc.
said by Jodokast96:Given the usage you've described, I can't think of anything that the 7500 (or 327w or GT704 for that matter) won't do. If it is a modern modem/router, you are probably correct, but it would be nice just the same to see the official specs.
So, no one wants to weigh with an opinion on the best dsl modem/router combo model? | |
1 edit | The 7500 supports ADSL2+, 802.11b/g and has a stateful firewall.
The manual can be found at - www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/HighSpeed/General+Support/Top+Questions/Top+Questions.htm - choose Verizon Online
edit : as for recommending a unit to use - Being a gamer, and not planning to stay with the same ISP forever, I prefer to use a simple bridge modem and a good quality gaming router.
--
reboot, reset, reconfigure, then recycle. | |
Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | reply to aceOfWands
The 7500 is an ADSL2+ modem/router that does support 802.11g, as is the 327w. I assume they both share a similar firewall, but I have never really bothered with it. My software firewall (Comodo) is a lot easier to configure. | |
 Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA | reply to aceOfWands
said by aceOfWands:So, no one wants to weigh with an opinion on the best dsl modem/router combo model? Don't really know what to say...
In my DSL years from 2000 - 2008, I used an old Bell Atlantic/Westell dumb modem, a Westell 2200 modem/router and finally a Westell 6100 modem/router (which I inherited from a friend who switched to FiOS about a year before I did).
The last tier I had was 3000/768. I tried all of the above with a Linksys WRT54G(S) router behind them, with both the 2200 & 6100 bridged (needed the wireless). There was no performance difference among any of the combinations. The 2200 and 6100 held sync and speed a little better on my intermittently noisy tel line but that was the only point of any note.
So, for either the 2200 or 6100 combos, I think there is no worthwhile difference. Have no experience with the later wireless combos V* has offered since.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons | |
 BriGuy89Let's Go Orange
join:2001-05-08
Yorktown Heights, NY | reply to aceOfWands
Ace:
If you are assuming that the modem is the culprit behind the appalling sub-dial-up downstream speeds, I strongly suggest you borrow/try another modem first, if possible.
The VZ DSL forum is filled with postings (by myself, included) of instances where the sub-dial-up speeds with normal-range upstream speeds are the fault of the VZ CO incorrectly provisioning the DSL user's connection or circuit, or messing up a configuration change to the router that connects one to the Internet from the regional CO.
What is the DSL line (supposed to be) provisioned at?
I know the BA-branded DSL modem is old but even an old DSL modem like that shouldn't be only giving one 18K down speeds.
The magnitude of the difference between downstream and upstream speeds, combined with VZ's track record, makes me very suspicious that this is "just" a cruddy old DSL modem issue.
Just be prepared that your original issue of 18K downstream on a DSL connection, which many others haven't jumped on, could be completely unrelated to the modem. | |
| reply to Bytebender
Bytebender, Jodokast96, and Rattler: thanks for the feedback.
said by Bytebender:The manual can be found at - www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/HighSpeed/General+Support/Top+Questions/Top+Questions.htm - choose Verizon Online Going to the URL above, and typing ""Westell 7500 specification" in the search menu returned many pages, none of which was immediately what I wanted. However, I eventually looked at one of them, and inside it found this link
»onlinehelp.verizon.net/consumer/···uide.pdf
to the user manual. Its not quite a spec sheet, but I would want the user manual as well, so its something.
said by Bytebender:as for recommending a unit to use - Being a gamer, and not planning to stay with the same ISP forever, I prefer to use a simple bridge modem and a good quality gaming router. I hear you: going with a separate router is what I do for myself, even tho I do not game.
But my father-in-law will likely never be gaming, and the simplicity of a combo modem/router, especially given the real low price that you can buy them for, makes it worth it. | |
| reply to BriGuy89
said by BriGuy89:If you are assuming that the modem is the culprit behind the appalling sub-dial-up downstream speeds, I strongly suggest you borrow/try another modem first, if possible. I agree wih your overall point.
I will still be buying a Westell 7500, which I think that I can get for around $20-30 anyways, partly because I do not know of anyone with a spare DSL modem and partly because it would be nice for my father-in-law to have some of its other features (i.e. the router bits).
said by BriGuy89: The VZ DSL forum is filled with postings (by myself, included) of instances where the sub-dial-up speeds with normal-range upstream speeds are the fault of the VZ CO incorrectly provisioning the DSL user's connection or circuit, or messing up a configuration change to the router that connects one to the Internet from the regional CO. While I hope that simply using a new modem does the trick, I very well may end up posting followup issues myself as well.
By the way, as mentioned in my original post, the Verizon tech girl did say that she performed a "line check" and could verify that it was behaving properly. Do you have any idea what this means? Was she doing some sort of ping or speed test from the CO to our DSL modem? Or was she merely doing some test into our building?
said by BriGuy89: What is the DSL line (supposed to be) provisioned at? My father-in-law originally had their cheapest and slowest package, but several months ago he upgraded to a package that he said was supposed to be 5X faster (3000/768 would be my guess).
said by BriGuy89: I know the BA-branded DSL modem is old but even an old DSL modem like that shouldn't be only giving one 18K down speeds. The magnitude of the difference between downstream and upstream speeds, combined with VZ's track record, makes me very suspicious that this is "just" a cruddy old DSL modem issue. Agreed.
My father-in-law said that the slow DSL download speeds only started happening several months ago. Not sure if it was a change in Verizon, or his computer that caused the problem. | |
| reply to BriGuy89
said by BriGuy89:The VZ DSL forum is filled with postings (by myself, included) of instances where the sub-dial-up speeds with normal-range upstream speeds are the fault of the VZ CO incorrectly provisioning the DSL user's connection or circuit, or messing up a configuration change to the router that connects one to the Internet from the regional CO. I just did a search on all your postings, and I think that I found a few which might be relevant to me.
2004 posting in which you proved that the Verizon CO had a bad card going out to the Internet; this was not detected by their line tests, which passed with flying colors:
»Re: Speed Test
2003 posting in which you report problems (but never any resolution?):
»My LQ Results: Drowning in the Verizon Pool? | |
BriGuy89Let's Go Orange
join:2001-05-08
Yorktown Heights, NY | said by aceOfWands:I just did a search on all your postings, and I think that I found a few which might be relevant to me. You should search on the 914 area code service interruptions from March and April of this year -- that's the most recent example that I (and almost everyone else using VZ DSL in the 914 and 845 area codes) experienced. It was always the fault of the CO and core network team's abysmal change and configuration management procedures. | |
BriGuy89Let's Go Orange
join:2001-05-08
Yorktown Heights, NY | reply to aceOfWands
said by aceOfWands:By the way, as mentioned in my original post, the Verizon tech girl did say that she performed a "line check" and could verify that it was behaving properly. Do you have any idea what this means? Was she doing some sort of ping or speed test from the CO to our DSL modem? Or was she merely doing some test into our building? It's just a check of connectivity from the CO to the provisioned line's end point (your father-in-law's DSL modem). Has nothing to do with performance; only checks where a DSL signal can go up and down stream. So even at 18K, it checks out as "fine" on VZ's end because this test only checks whether a connection exists, and not whether it is a reasonable, properly provisioned signal.
Problem is if the issue is related to another hop -- if it's your pass from the local CO to the regional CO, or from the regional CO to the Internet (which was always the issue when my DSL downstream service was serevely impacted by the White Plains, NY CO crew), a line test will never show that problem.
Are other DSL users in the area reporting similar problems? If not, hardware is still possible but my gut -- primarily because upstream speeds aren't affected at all -- says it's poorly provisioned circuit on the router that tries to send outbound traffic to the Internet. Hardware (modem) failure would more likely indicate a complete loss or impact on all types of connectivity, not just downstream only. | |
| BriGuy89: thanks for your responses.
Here is an update of the situation: I bought a new Westell 7500 modem/router off of eBay (got it for $25, free shipping) even tho I knew from you guys that the modem was likely not the culprit (I wanted a modern unit, including the router capabilities as well).
Went over to my father-in-laws last night to install the modem; it powered up fine, and was able to use its web interface to configure it.
I also backed up my father-in-laws data, and then reinstalled his operating system (actually, his entire C partition; the guy who initially configured his computer nicely used some software from Adonis to record a snapshot of his C partition when that guy installed his OS and some programs a year ago). I did this to make sure that his computer was pristine and that it could not be a factor with the networking.
Because it was a new modem, Verizon wanted it activated. Downloading their activation SW over the network was agonizingly slow (the CD I order 9+ days has still not arrived); took 2 hours? Finally downloaded it and started it; towards the end of the installation, even tho I checked none of the extra software boxes since I need none of their crap, the stupid installation program still wanted to download more stuff; after another 2 hours or so of waiting for it to download, I gave up and killed the installation procedure.
But I guess the activation stage of the installation was finished, because I was at this point able to web browse without getting redirected to the Verizon activation website. The Verizon speed test page could not successfully download in full and I was never able to run it last night. Oddly enough, the good java one from this website DID download, and I measured 4 Kbps down, 500+ up, about the same as before.
Now, for about 2 hours of the above process, I was actually on the phone with some lady from Verizon tech support. She knew full well from how long the activation procedure was taking that something was amiss. She eventually relented and agreed to transfer me to a "network specialist". My gosh, she should have known to do this about 100 minutes before--do they get bonuses for not transfering you to their better tech people? During the call transfer process, my phone line suddenly went dead; I had been disconnected. I called back, and waded thru their agonizing voicemail, only to find that their offices were now closed. I fit to be tied!
I ended up spending the night at my in-laws. Was awoken this morning by a call back from Verizon, asking if my problem was not resolved. I told them no way, and outlined why the problem must be at their end. The lady said that she would escalate the issue to higher level tech support and that we should hear back in 24 hours.
After we hung up, I reran the speed tests. Having done zero additional configuration, I found that the Verizon speed test web page would at least now load in full, however, it reported 0 Kbps down and up which is clearly wrong. The java speed test on this website gave completely inconsistent results: one run it would measure about 2800 Kbps down (which is about what it ought to be) while the next run might find 13X slower downloads. Uploads were always about 500 Kbps. So, overnight, for some magical reason, the download speeds have improved to the point of being reasonable, altho the inconsistency disturbs me.
Will wait and see what their networking specialists get back to me and say. Will keep you boys informed... | |
Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:21 Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to aceOfWands
Try using another speed test site other than the Verizon one. That's known to be unreliable. Here, we suggest the ones at this site or speedtest.net, myspeed.visualware.net or speakeasy.net/speedtest as those are typically reliable.
If you still see problems on his end, you could try the Verizon Direct forum on this site. You are a member so you can get them to help look at the line, and they're pretty good at this as well. However a line quality test will need to be performed as well, when the line is working bad. But since you mentioned the activation taking ages to do itself, a line quality test being posted here would work out, and since it's most likely going to be bad, I'd go for the Verizon Direct forum. | |
irbrenda
join:2000-11-17
Staten Island, NY | reply to aceOfWands
Re: That old "dumb" Bell Atlantic modem..... has been running successfully for me for the past 8 years and I refuse to give it up. Flawless, and I use a Linksys Pre-N router with it. Hate to give up what works. However, I will be caving in to FIOS very soon. | |
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