Re: This is the crapiest voip plan in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21554364 en Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:24:57 EDT Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:24:57 EDT Re: This is the crappiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21555486 mahermusic :
said by Toguro See Profile :

I get offers for unlimited calling for 19.99.
Read the fine print. You're "$19.99" offers turn out to be $24.99, or more. Read the fine print. Vonage is cheaper.
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1/20/09 = The final day of our Retarded Cowboy President!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21555486 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:36:18 EDT Re: This is the crapiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21554364 anon : Enron was one of the largest independent energy companies so I guess they didn't fail either. GM is still considered by many measures to be the largest automobile manufacturer on the planet and I suppose, based on your reasoning, that they are minting money. As the old saying goes, "the bigger they are the harder they fall", etc.

I'm not trying to be offensive in anyway so please don't take my comments the wrong way. Vonage, by the way, has never once made any money. A relatively large customer base generates significant cash flow that lets them move money around enough to stay afloat but at the end of the day they are pretty much broke. They reported a $262M (million) loss in 2005. The next year they lost $339M. In 2007, they lost $267M. Its IPO failed miserably and it ended up landing them in court for false advertising.

Personally, I think VoIP technology is a wonderful thing. Traditional TDM (time division multiplexing) that serves as the backbone of traditional Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS), although extremely reliable, is far more expensive from a capacity stand point. Yes, Vonage brought the concept mainstream but the companies founder is a flat out crook (in my opinion). The firm was started by a gentleman named Jeffrey A. Citron. Mr. Citron was once a principal of a large online securities brokerage called Datek, later sold to TD Ameritrade. The SEC accused several Datek employees with fraudulently creating fictitious client accounts while trading (also illegally) money in existing customer accounts without permission. The non-fictitious existing client accounts were qualified to use a back-door trading system called SEOS. This system was designed to execute trades for smaller investers more quickly than traditional systems and allow legitimate small investors to obtain similar prices that the larger investors (such as pension and mutual funds) could obtain by ordering in bulk. The SEC alleged that Mr. Citron devised a clever computer-based algorithm that took advantage of the price spread quoted on the same exact equities between the SEOS system and the traditional system. The faster SEOS system wasn't allowed to be used by traders and several Datek account holders approached the SEC with documents from Datek quoting a guaranteed return on investment so long as Datek had permission to use the accounts at its discrection. This spread was allegedly pocketed by Mr. Citron and several other insiders. Although very small at the individual share, the pot added up to an estimated sum in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

In an unprecedented settlement, Mr. Citron and the others charged in the case agreed paid a record sum of roughly $70 million back to the SEC as long as they didn't have to admin wrongdoing and to settle the case outwrite. Mr. Citron's share was $22 million of total. I believe this was and may still be the largest fine ever paid to the SEC by an individual.

So Mr. Citron, still a very rich man, decides to pass the venture capital plate around the congregation to secure funding for his new start-up named "Vonage". Now, four years later, the company has lost hundreds of millions of dollars using technologies that several courts have determined to be ripped off from patents of traditional phone companies such as Verizon, Sprint, Nortel, and AT&T. Vonage was ordered to pay back hundreds of millions back to several of these these companies as a result.

I'm all about VoIP and any other technology that enhances or revolutionizes the way we all communicate but I think Mr. Citron's lack of morals and overall greedy persona spawned a company of equal posture that simply needs to go out of business. Yes, they hemmoraged billions on commercial advertisements over the years to get the word out and now we all know its out there whether we wanted to know about it or not. However, its culture of fiscal irresponsibility has led it down a path already forged by shady characters such as Enron and WorldCom as well as immature big spending wannabe's like WebVan. Let all the other VoIP providers, whether they be independent, telco, ISP, cellular, or cable take over their customer base so that they can be run by organizations that understand what a balance sheet is. I guess the free market will ultimately make that decision given today's economic climate soon enough when further attempts to obtain credit hit a brick wall.

If you think you've seen the last of price increases from the likes of Vonage, go see Mr. Citron about getting some of your money back.

www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp17929.htm ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21554364 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:01:02 EDT Re: This is the crappiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553906 Toguro : I get offers for unlimited calling for 19.99.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553906 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:44:34 EDT Re: This is the crappiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553748 mahermusic :
said by Toguro See Profile :

It is cheaper to go with Comcast no wonder Vonage is failing.
Um.... cheaper??? How is $24.99 cheaper that $18.00?
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1/20/09 = The final day of our Retarded Cowboy President!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553748 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:16:37 EDT Re: This is the crapiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553633 morbo : zing!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553633 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:55:04 EDT Re: This is the crappiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553604 Toguro : »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vonage
Revenue ▲$828.23 million USD(2007)
Net income ▼-$267.43 million USD(2007)
How long can anyone float checks till it catches up to them.

Edit: By the way at 18.00 for 500 minutes it is the crappiest voip plan going.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553604 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:49:46 EDT Re: This is the crapiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553250 Goober : GM is the largest domestic car manufacturer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553250 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:50:16 EDT Re: This is the crapiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553086 fallenangel : Please explain how Comcast Digital Phone is cheaper than Vonage... unless you are still on the triple play package. For the first year, you pay $29.95 for the Comcast Digital Phone. After that the price for their phone service is raised.

When comparing, please add up all your taxes and other surcharges on your Comcast phone bill. Also, how is Vonage failing? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553086 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:21:38 EDT Re: This is the crapiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553040 kapil : They are the largest independent VoIP provider...that hardly qualifies as "failing".
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»www.Digium.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553040 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:13:56 EDT This is the crappiest voip plan http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553018 Toguro : It is cheaper to go with Comcast no wonder Vonage is failing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21553018 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:09:26 EDT