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asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

This is why those people condemning collective licensing...

need to rethink. This is why I am so frustrated by the attitudes of people in the other thread. We are all shooting ourselves in the foot out of spite toward the industry.

»Debating an ISP Piracy Tax

It is in all our interests to find a solution that can balance consumer and industry interests.

If the situation continues indefinitely in this stalemate the government will become more and more willing to turn to solutions like forcing isp services to crack down on infringement, filter and monitor all of our activities. We are seeing this happening in other countries. This would be an appalling result and would further the move toward legitimizing things like deep packet inspection, which would facilitate all kinds of nasty intentions that the incumbent communication companies have to subvert competition. The consequences would also be far reaching for our privacy and liberty.

We will all end up paying a very heavy price for the refusal of some people to compromise. Purists often impose a lot of unpleasant side effects on others.


SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

I don't agree that taxing is the solution. The RIAA is greedy. Period. They still haven't shown accountability for actually distributing the monies they have received in their lawsuits to the copyright holders. And you want to give them MORE money? No. Copyright law is pretty specific in its intent, which is to protect the copyright holder from exploitation (i.e. people making money/taking credit off/from their work). Anything else and it's steering away from the point of proliferating the arts.


Desdinova
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

reply to asdfdfdfdfdfdf
"If the situation continues indefinitely in this stalemate the government will become more and more willing to turn to solutions like forcing isp services to crack down on infringement, filter and monitor all of our activities."

Maybe. Or the U.S. public may suddenly realize that the government works for THEM and not for a handful of poorly informed attorneys who are doing as much damage as they can to the greatest number of people in an effort to prop up an antiquated and failed business model.



asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

reply to SRFireside
You have to work with what is, not with what you wish was there.

I'm in general agreement with what you say, but this is the purist attitude I'm talking about.
You seem to be saying that you have no intention of cooperating or compromising until the present industry voluntarily commits suicide. They aren't going to do that. The copyright industries may indeed be profoundly corrupt and exploitative, but it is a system that has stood for far longer than any of us have been alive and, though its profit is diminished, it doesn't appear as if it is going to disappear. People still pay a lot of money every year to be entertained by product from this industry and massive numbers of musicians still choose to participate in such a system. The public at large has continued to buy and keep this industry alive through all of its stupid behavior over the last half dozen years. They aren't going to stop buying even if the ugly things I suggested above come to pass.

To Desdinova I would say that I would love to see their business model change and I would love to see the american public develop a spine. I would ask you to consider this though: The US public sat passively by during the worst economic crisis since the depression and the massive socialization of the costs and risks that the wealthy took on to privately profit at public expense, sat passively by during the iraq fiasco, the patriot act, torture at abu ghraib, Mark Kleins whistleblowing about nsa blanket snooping of american internet traffic at AT&T. If we are waiting for the US public to act to defend its interests and uphold just and fair norms we may be waiting until hell freezes over. Whose scenario do you think is more likely to come true yours(however much I wish your scenario would come true) or mine?

Unfortunately we don't get to deal with our idealized vision of how the world should be. We have to deal with the world as it is. We try to change it for the better, when we can, but we shouldn't ignore the things we can do to keep it from becoming worse than it is now.

So I again come back to what I said before. If we refuse to find a solution then worse things are likely to result. If we have an opportunity for a solution that may not be ideal, but is better than what we have now and is better than what we are likely to get if we do nothing, then why would we subvert our own interests by doing nothing?



SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdf :

The copyright industries may indeed be profoundly corrupt and exploitative, but it is a system that has stood for far longer than any of us have been alive and, though its profit is diminished, it doesn't appear as if it is going to disappear.
Then again you can say the same thing about the auto industry, the oil industry and the banking (i.e. home lending) industry. All three had some very corrupt elements in them that abused their positions to further their own greed. Now look at them. Nobody can escape karma. Mark my words the music industry will HAVE to change their tune or there will be a similar shakeup in their industry.

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdf :

I would ask you to consider this though: The US public sat passively by during the worst economic crisis since the depression and the massive socialization of the costs and risks that the wealthy took on to privately profit at public expense, sat passively by during the iraq fiasco, the patriot act, torture at abu ghraib, Mark Kleins whistleblowing about nsa blanket snooping of american internet traffic at AT&T.


The U.S. public had MANY who decried all of those things and many more. The problem is the government either denied there was a problem or flat out ignored the complaints. Again... we see the fruits of that labor. Time will tell if hindsight is 20/20, but right here and right now more and more people are coming out against all that. Likely because they no longer fear the retribution that may have been threatening them from the old regime.

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdf :

We try to change it for the better, when we can, but we shouldn't ignore the things we can do to keep it from becoming worse than it is now.
It's not about what change is more likely to pass. It's about refusing the IP tax. People shouldn't have to pay into something they may or may not do. Ideologically I gave you my reasons against it. The alternative is for the RIAA and MPAA to continue with business as usual. That is fine for me. Now the courts are more and more ruling against them and it is getting harder and harder for them to sustain their legal action. Why appease them now when in the end they are fighting a losing battle?

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