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« Comcast is more evil then Dolan.  
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
Comcast is scared....

They are scared of a good competing product on their home turf, and will obviously do everythigng they can do to stall/squash it.

If Comcast has a superior product, they have nothing to worry about.


Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:

You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
That could happen in one of two ways.
First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest.

Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower.

--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

said by Rick See Profile :

You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
That could happen in one of two ways.
First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest.

Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower.
Your first point only works if FIOS were to manage to lure a lot of people away from Comcast. If Comcast had a superior product, then this would be a non-argument.

You second point, so far, has not shown itself. In fact, neither Comcast nor FIOS really compete on price but on how many features (channels, VOD, etc.)

Are you really auguring that competition brings higher prices? Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up?


major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

reply to Rick
said by Rick See Profile :

You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
That could happen in one of two ways.
First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest.
Wow. Use circular arguments much?

said by Rick See Profile :

Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower.

Landlines have zip to do with Internet connectivity and pricetag. FiOS is "price competitive" based on the simple fact there aren't any caps. That alone is what's going to kill Comcrap regardless of whatever circular logic you spew.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley

saturation p

join:2002-06-07
Philadelphia, PA

reply to Rick
Sorry Rick you have bad info.
"First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest."

Uh, no. Verizon and city council have already agreed to a plan that would spread the deployment out in the initial phase to prevent ROI redlining. The agreement would have made at least two thirds of the initial areas to be offered FIOS in poorer neighborhoods. With the entire city to be wired in I believe seven years.

Your second point makes even less sense because Verizon will have to charge what the market will bear. That is the advantage of competition being good for the consumer.

I canceled my Comcast video because of poor customer service and defective equipment. Competition will make them better off.

MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ

reply to Rick
said by Rick See Profile :

You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
That could happen in one of two ways.
First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest.

Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower.

Only you could find a way to say that increased competition raises prices

DSL has lost customers, some of their DSL customers have gone to FiOS. As far as landlines, many people are going wireless. If only Verizon could become the top dog in wireless. Oh wait, they are.

Now, since you raise cost issues, you do realize that the cost of rollout has dropped substantially? And if you were correct, why haven't their prices risen like you are saying they should where they have already deployed?


n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy See Profile :

Your first point only works if FIOS were to manage to lure a lot of people away from Comcast. If Comcast had a superior product, then this would be a non-argument.

You second point, so far, has not shown itself. In fact, neither Comcast nor FIOS really compete on price but on how many features (channels, VOD, etc.)
You are quite correct on this. I have a choice between FiOS and Cablevision and there is no price advantage from switching between one or the other. On this point alone, Cablevision has managed to retain a significant market share in areas where FiOS is available. As for me, I am sticking with CV because it works and I have no complaints. If FiOS came along with a steep discount, I might be willing to talk but that is not going to happen.


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk

reply to Rick
I did not fail to consider it Rick, I remember your arguement from the last thread about Fios in Philly. It is NOT going to raise prices due to some cherry picking, let's be real here. If the offerings Comcast has are a superior product, then they will not lose their any subscribers. Pretty cut and dry there.

As for landlines, etc, that should only help Comcast's stability by picking up some of those people, now wouldn't it? That is not going to make them jack up the prices on Fios right after they get into PA. You are using the same scare tactics that Comcast obviously used in Philly. Prices are going to rise no matter what, we have all seen that.

So do you disagree that competition is not good for the market and consumers?
--
"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org


competefairgrnds

@sbcglobal.net

reply to major marco
I'm all for competition, but as far as availability, if Comcast has to abide by franchise rules, then so should Verizon. If they are competing for similar services, they should both abide by state franchise rules. It is unfair for Verizon to freely jump in and cherry pick "rich neighborhoods" without serving "the rest of us", and yet be allowed to offer similar product offerings.


Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:

reply to moonpuppy
"Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up?"

I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to.

I don't know about you..but back in the day I used to pay 300.00 a month for dial up internet by the hour.
Today..it's 20 to 50 dollars depending on who we're talking about.
Back in the day I used to get a few channels in black and white. Today..it's dvr's and high def and widescreen and color.

Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability.

Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value.

Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it.
Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you?
It certainly doesn't to me.

What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products.
And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that.

This is a sign of how a company growing larger and people moving more services to them DOES lower prices.

I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios. I think it's a good technology and wouldn't mind having that choice myself.
But it does need to be thought through for the reasons I mentioned. It COULD lead to higher prices overall and actually be self defeating. People are failing to realize how the loss of landlines and dsl will be devastating to this company in the years ahead. And how it may weaken them.
There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company?

You cause prices to go UP for everyone.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast

reply to major marco
Don't even bother , he has great service and there fore every one else is wrong.

Like cable didn't cherry pick when they first started rolling out either. I mean really no company is in this to make money to grow more , they are all in it to make sure the customer is happy and thats all that matters.

Comcast makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when they stand up to the mean telcos and help us consumers out like this.

I for one welcome our new entertainment overlords comcast , and may I say as a qualified entertainment consumer i should be kept around to help get other customers from the nasty big company telcos turned over to the light side of comcast.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

reply to Rick
said by Rick See Profile :

"Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up?"

I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to.

I don't know about you..but back in the day I used to pay 300.00 a month for dial up internet by the hour.
Today..it's 20 to 50 dollars depending on who we're talking about.
Back in the day I used to get a few channels in black and white. Today..it's dvr's and high def and widescreen and color.

Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability.

Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value.

Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it.
Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you?
It certainly doesn't to me.
You may think they represent a better value but I know for a fact that competition lowers prices and/or has more features. In my area, there were 2 cable companies that were constantly competing. In the rest of the area with just Comcast, you had to pay for The Disney Channel, Home Team Sports and a couple of others that the competition area had as part of their package. And the prices were lower than the monopoly area.

And yes, I do remember the days of Compuserve and Delphi. I also remember when AOL came in and offered unlimited dial up which forced others to do the same thing and the prices came down.

said by Rick See Profile :

What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products.
And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that.

This is a sign of how a company growing larger and people moving more services to them DOES lower prices.
Many are leaving DSL for FIOS so all those DSL customers are not total losses. And we have already seen how Comcast can screw up a simple phone connection. (Remember the granny with a hammer story?)

The prices don't go down. I have yet to see Comcast lower their prices. It hasn't happened. Your argument will be they added more which is NOT the same.

said by Rick See Profile :

I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios. I think it's a good technology and wouldn't mind having that choice myself.
But it does need to be thought through for the reasons I mentioned. It COULD lead to higher prices overall and actually be self defeating. People are failing to realize how the loss of landlines and dsl will be devastating to this company in the years ahead. And how it may weaken them.
There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company?

You cause prices to go UP for everyone.
Are you serious? You are fully against any OTHER company coming in on Comcast's turf. I could use your same argument that the Comcast phone service is causing people to flee landlines and causing higher prices for those who can't get their voice service.

You are fully against any competition because of who you work for.

And how do I cause prices to go up? If FIOS can do it better than Comcast, which in my case they did, then why should anyone not be allowed the choice of cable TV carriers? You sound like Comcast did when DirectTV came in and you guys were paying $400 to people who would switch to you and ditched DirectTV.

Try again.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Callcentric
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·FrontierNet Intern..

reply to Rick
said by Rick See Profile :

in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
do you mean faster than they do on their own with all of their unfees and below the line adjustments?

said by Rick See Profile :

First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest.
not if comcast could actually compete with verizon in terms of features. again, fios is a buzzword. its something cool and hip. if comcast would compete with fios in terms of offered value-adds or even (*gasp*) prices...comcast wouldn't lose anything to the "higher roi areas". more cable shilling....

said by Rick See Profile :

There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be?
hmmmm...maybe not worry about investor profits for a year or two, suck it up, keep your prices low, and win your subs back? again, if comcast were really confident in where they stand, they wouldn't be spreading this fud.

said by Rick See Profile :

I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to.
just because technology advances, doesn't mean you have to pay more for it. in fact, my computers that i purchase today are *much* faster than my 286 and....guess what...i didn't have to pay more to get them...
epic fail again, rick. technology advances. as it advances, the costs of production drop. technology gets cheaper (unless you live on the bleeding edge) as time goes on.

said by Rick See Profile :

Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability.
like over-compressed hd video, consistently bottom customer service rankings, and techs/contractors that kill animals, people, and fill my house with sewage? much better quality of workmanship there.

said by Rick See Profile :

Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value.
and a lot of higher fees. you skated *just* underneath anti-trust there rick.

said by Rick See Profile :

Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it.
Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you?
It certainly doesn't to me.
no, but we have new caps and just because you look at *one* service does not mean the other two haven't gone up...take off the blinders

said by Rick See Profile :

What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products.
unless you live in an area where you can't bundle, or you don't want to get shafted by the cable company three different ways. way to *slowly* move more towards a monopoly of the media services.

said by Rick See Profile :

And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that.
landlines are antiquated technology that most *younger* people see no value to. they have their cell phones. in ten years, this will be the same with coaxial cable from the mso. high speed internet connections will remove the need for cable. oh wait, i can't go over my caps. nevermind.

said by Rick See Profile :

I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios.
unless it's comcast's home turf.

said by Rick See Profile :

wouldn't mind having that choice myself.
you'd have to go into work wearing a scarlet *v* on your chest.

said by Rick See Profile :

There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company?
i'm sorry, all i heard was ...blah, blah, blah...cable must stay strong.
again, if you walk softly and carry a big stick, let your products speak for your sleazy marketing and spreading of fud. you are going to raise rates with or without verizon. i love how your argument hinges on the fact that "verizon is going to take all of the rich subs, so we can't support ourselves". free market at work rick. can't handle it. fold under.

said by Rick See Profile :

You cause prices to go UP for everyone.
nope, the cartel-like structure of the msos/telcos causes prices to go up. i thought we've all made that perfectly clear.

q.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast

reply to n2jtx
Absent price or service as a factor, most people don't change service providers. (Why fix what isn't broken?) However, Comcast has steadfastly stated, and publicly, that they will not compete (with FIOS, U-Verse, or anyone else) based on price. This leaves their competitors free to undercut Comcast in this area (which VZ has, in fact, started to do; the only reason I'm switching is because VZ has managed to adjust programming prices downward enough to offset Comcast's dual advantages in lower STB lease costs and not needing STBs for cable-ready TVs). Comcast has likely not taken a look at VZ's current bundle pricing, compared to their own (unless that is exactly *why* they have managed to slow Verizon up, because the recent programming-price changes have them worried?).


Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept

join:2004-06-26
reply to Rick
Pot and Kettle.
--


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast

reply to Rick
said by Rick See Profile :

You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time.
That could happen in one of two ways.
First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest.

Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower.

Both the massive landline loss and DSL customer loss were going to happen *anyway*. (Also, how many of both losses are to other parts of VZ? Specifically, landline losses to VZW and DSL losses actually being FIOS crossgrades or conversions?). All the RBOCs are in the same position when it comes to landline losses; VZ, as the second-largest, is going to suffer a larger impact than say, Qwest.

Rick, VZ knows as well as both of us and Comcast that absent either service differences or price differences, or both, most folks won't switch service providers (for anything); in fact, the entire reason CDV is gaining customers from VZ (or anyone else) is price. (So says Comcast's own ads.) VZ has, in fact, woken up and smelled the coffee; they have adjusted their programming prices for FIOS TV to offset Comcast's advantages (lower lease rates for STBs, and especially in most of Philadelphia, not needing STBs for cable-ready TVs).

Look, I have nothing against Comcast as a company (they have provided good service to me since 1999 for cable TV, and 2000 for HSI); however, I refuse to buy Comcast's argument that VZ will not compete on price (which they certainly will), or even that Comcast won't compete on price (which they are certainly doing with CDV). When you have two companies in the same business, on the same turf, the only way one can gain customers from the other is to compete - either on price or on level/quality of service. (Or, naturally, both.)

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to moonpuppy
not in my area. Cable rates have been the same for years. Cable HSI rates have been the same for years too. No price increases with Buckeye Cable. Smaller cable companies can keep their prices low. larger companies raise.


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
reply to tubbynet
As always, my hats off to you for a great post.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA

reply to MrSpock29
quote:
f only Verizon could become the top dog in wireless. Oh wait, they are.
Only by buying Alltel. Before that the top dog was AT&T. And Verizon's wireless is the NOTwork. They do have a good ad department though.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

reply to MrSpock29
Their not the #1 largest carrier in America YET! deal has to be finished before that can be claimed.

But that will only be for a short time until the new Admin. says that all the telco's and cell phone companies are too big and split them all up and make them shed their cell phone business off.

Part of this merger should have been agreed that they keep the Alltel employees too which Toledo/Maumee knows we'll have more laid off people here due VZ will close the Toledo Market Corp. Office.
-
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