Re: $20,000 a day? in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21571291 en Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:26:38 EDT Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:26:38 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21584350 funchords :
said by avd706 See Profile :

Dosen't windows, and most other modern DNS' as well as some advanced browsers cache DNS results anyway?
They can. Windows runs fine without its DNS-caching service turned on -- it's optional.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21584350 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:50:10 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21583507 avd706 : Dosen't windows, and most other modern DNS' as well as some advanced browsers cache DNS results anyway? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21583507 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:28:53 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21578745 TamaraB :
said by espaeth See Profile :

...On your first query of "www.dslreports.com" you need to ask the root servers about ".com", the gtld servers about "dslreports.com" and the dslreports authoritative servers about "www.dslreports.com"
Once the above is cached on my local bind all subsequent queries are nearly instantaneous. There is only a delay in retrieving the initial data, after that it's essentially a free ride.

said by espaeth See Profile :

If you use a good caching server, you can get the same information in a single query.
That's exactly what my local bind does. How much faster can you get than a Localhost query? It is a "good caching server".

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21578745 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:39:00 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21578695 TamaraB :
said by DaSneaky1D See Profile :

... rather than asking OpenDNS's server at half the resolution time.
Redirections for one, tracking for two, selling browsing history for three. My local bind asks the authoritative server one time, then for the duration of the TTL, my local bind responds instantaneously, no network delay for all subsequent queries for that domain. it is FASTER.

said by DaSneaky1D See Profile :

Why not get it from the quickest responding server and simply cache it again locally?
Because the nearest non-authoritative server, MAY have old info. Badly configured authoritative servers (with unduly large TTL values) can cause new information not to propagate quickly. I have seen this many times; an IP change that doesn't propagate down-stream for days. The only accurate info comes directly from authoritative servers, all others may or may not reflect reality.

Also, I have control of my local cache, I can clear it at will flushing out any bad data. I suppose it's a control issue, that's why I run FreeBSD :-)

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21578695 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:24:31 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21577644 anon : Not even close. 20k / day = $7.3 million / year. Building out 15 clustered servers distributed nationwide plus adding in the headcount works out to about $300,000 (assuming two headcount and $4,000 for datacenter class servers). The revenue generated is more than cost involved, even if the estimate is off by a factor of 10 (approximately double). I'm not including the colocation or networking costs (since DNS servers are usually located onnet for an ISP).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21577644 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:44:36 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21573629 whosmatt : Any server you forward to is ultimately a recursive server that will, if it has no information in its cache, query the root servers for that answer -- Opendns included. One advantage of using a very popular DNS server is that it gets LOTS of queries and will be more likely to have a popular result cached.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21573629 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:48:54 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21573280 rebus9 :
said by Matt See Profile :

Hrm, I wonder if Time Warner were to eliminate all Residential DNS servers how much that would save them? My guess is it would approach that amount.
How so? Compared to web and mail servers, DNS servers cost very little to operate. Even modestly provisioned servers can handle a LOT of lookups, and bandwidth demands are small.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21573280 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:38:07 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572726 funchords :
said by kontos See Profile :

said by espaeth See Profile :

dnsmasq is a lightweight caching DNS / local DHCP server:

»www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html
It doesn't cache.
said by »www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html :

Dnsmasq caches internet addresses (A records and AAAA records) and address-to-name mappings (PTR records), reducing the load on upstream servers and improving performance (especially on modem connections).

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572726 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:54:40 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572375 espaeth :
said by funchords See Profile :

I have just started learning about mDNS (Zeroconf, Bonjour) and I'm wondering what you think of it as an alternative to dedicating a machine to running DNS for a LAN?
If your clients support it I guess that works for local resolution. This would not seem to have any benefits of having a local caching server however.

The benefits of having a local caching DNS forwarder on your LAN are there with a sufficient number of hosts. For a small number of hosts (ie, 1) the extra lookup delay of the local server actually just slows things down. Having a caching local recursive resolver on your network generally only pays off for ISPs and enterprise customers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572375 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:55:27 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572344 kontos :
said by espaeth See Profile :

dnsmasq is a lightweight caching DNS / local DHCP server:

»www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html
It doesn't cache.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572344 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:47:44 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572331 kontos :
said by Matt See Profile :

my LAN, universe.local) and don't configure forwarders, it will return an NXDOMAIN result for any domain that isn't universe.local.
You're doing something wrong, then.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572331 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:45:18 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572240 Matt :
said by funchords See Profile :

Is dnsmasq the same thing as "DNS relay"? TIA --
It can act as a DNS relay, yes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572240 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:26:31 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572192 espaeth : dnsmasq is a lightweight caching DNS / local DHCP server:

»www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572192 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:19:26 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572049 funchords : Is dnsmasq the same thing as "DNS relay"? TIA -- ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572049 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:00:02 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572032 whosmatt : The correct distinction is forwarding DNS server (dnsmasq found in most residential gateway appliances) vs recursive dns server (BIND,windows, etc can do both), which takes a query, starts with the root servers, and keeps going until it ultimately gets the answer it wants.

dnsmasq in its default setting will forward queries to another server or servers. one very useful feature of dnsmasq is that you can have it simultaneously forward to multiple servers and return whatever result comes back fastest.

-m]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21572032 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:58:04 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571764 funchords : I have just started learning about mDNS (Zeroconf, Bonjour) and I'm wondering what you think of it as an alternative to dedicating a machine to running DNS for a LAN? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571764 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:10:13 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571538 espaeth :
said by TamaraB See Profile :

Directly from the ROOT servers, totally bypassing your ISP. The root server points you directly to the authoritative DNS server of the domain you want to access.
Not quite. The root DNS servers only serve up "com" "net" "org" and the other top level domains. They pass you off to authoritative servers for the TLD (such as the gtld servers for .com/.net) who respond with the authoritative servers for the domain.

On your first query of "www.dslreports.com" you need to ask the root servers about ".com", the gtld servers about "dslreports.com" and the dslreports authoritative servers about "www.dslreports.com"

If you use a good caching server, you can get the same information in a single query.

In nearly all cases, not taking advantage of a good caching server will still get you results, but it will come at a significant lookup latency penalty.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571538 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:27:59 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571509 DarkLogix : on the other hand I also have it runing as a domain controler]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571509 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:24:20 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571490 DarkLogix : You just need to check the root hints list
I have an MS dns server at home as well and didn't set any forwards and just rechecked the root hints

and internal dns for my website works aswell as resolving external

and I have reverce and forward zones but not forwarders]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571490 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:21:55 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571455 DaSneaky1D : Why do you need to get answers from the authoritative servers? It'll take 100ms or more to get an answer due to routing distance, rather than asking OpenDNS's server at half the resolution time.

While I understand the "cool" factor of it (btw, you're really not asking a root server for anything, only the TLD servers), you're likely only asking for an "A" or "MX" record for most DNS request. Why not get it from the quickest responding server and simply cache it again locally?
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571455 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:15:37 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571433 Matt :
said by DarkLogix See Profile :

By default windows dns servers (meaning windows servers with the DNS role added)

point to the root servers so you don't have to set the forwarders and it regularly updates its root hints file
Unless you configure a zone. I run MS DNS at home and if you configure a forward lookup zone (like I have for my LAN, universe.local) and don't configure forwarders, it will return an NXDOMAIN result for any domain that isn't universe.local.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571433 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:12:21 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571420 battleop : Probably the same place that OpenDNS gets their answers. The root servers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571420 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:09:47 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571369 DarkLogix : By default windows dns servers (meaning windows servers with the DNS role added)

point to the root servers so you don't have to set the forwarders and it regularly updates its root hints file]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571369 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:01:41 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571291 Matt :
said by TamaraB See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

... Where do you think the caching DNS server gets it's answers?
Directly from the ROOT servers, totally bypassing your ISP. The root server points you directly to the authoritative DNS server of the domain you want to access.

Bob
You're correct. I was confusing a caching name server with a name server that is authoritative for a specific zone. If you have a zone configured, your name server requires a forwarder for all zones it's not authoritative for.

I run DNS for my LAN, which was causing my confusion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571291 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:49:02 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571212 TamaraB :
said by Matt See Profile :

... Where do you think the caching DNS server gets it's answers?
Directly from the ROOT servers, totally bypassing your ISP. The root server points you directly to the authoritative DNS server of the domain you want to access.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21571212 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:37:39 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570983 Matt :
said by BosstonesOwn See Profile :

caching dns on your home router FTW !

I do it on mine :)
I run one as well, but your caching DNS server still has to talk to another outside DNS server. (Forwarding) Where do you think the caching DNS server gets it's answers?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570983 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:58:20 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570876 BosstonesOwn : caching dns on your home router FTW !

I do it on mine :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570876 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:41:33 EDT Re: $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570828 avd706 : Too bad opendns is redirected to Sprint's servers on their EVDO network..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570828 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:33:06 EDT $20,000 a day? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570811 Matt : Hrm, I wonder if Time Warner were to eliminate all Residential DNS servers how much that would save them? My guess is it would approach that amount.

Regardless, I've been using OpenDNS for a while here and I find it very speedy and always up. I hate the DNS redirection stuff though, so all that is turned off.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21570811 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:31:08 EDT