81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | Any point in getting alarm permit?
I will soon get alarm system installed(my self) and was wondering if their any real point in getting alarm permit(yes technically it's required by law). Other than that false alarm respond fee is about $100 less with permit, any other reason to get one?
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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robbob340
K.U. Sweet 16
Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS | Just so you are aware, if it is LAPD who will be responding, they only allow 2 responses per year. Any more and they will not go at all. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
3 edits | said by robbob340  :Just so you are aware, if it is LAPD who will be responding, they only allow 2 responses per year. Any more and they will not go at all. Technically you're correct, but lapd system is so old that 911 system don't display this information to the operators. I guess, eventually that will change.
edit:Thanks for posting that info. |
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robbob340
K.U. Sweet 16
Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS | LA city is kinda funky. Sometimes they ask for the permit number, sometimes they don't. From an alarm dispatchers perspective it appears the responses are tied in the system to your permit number. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | said by robbob340 :LA city is kinda funky. Sometimes they ask for the permit number, sometimes they don't. From an alarm dispatchers perspective it appears the responses are tied in the system to your permit number. Hmm interesting, never had alarm before so that is interesteing. Going by this article »articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/02···arm-dave
"Obsolete computer technology and understaffing, meanwhile, have left the department as overwhelmed as ever, failing to collect millions of dollars in fines each year from often belligerent home and business owners."
“The system we have now is flawed,” said Lt. Andre Dawson, who oversees a small, frazzled staff in LAPD’s Alarm Division. “It is totally antiquated.”
So not sure what to say  |
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robbob340
K.U. Sweet 16
Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS
1 edit | Like I said before though, sometimes LA 911 dispatch KNOWS that they had more than 2 responses. I have had them tell me that they are refusing to respond. So somewhere, somehow, it is tied into the system. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by robbob340 :Like I said before though, sometimes LA 911 dispatch KNOWS that they had more than 2 responses. I have had them tell me that they are refusing to respond. So somewhere, somehow, it is tied into the system. Intersting, personally hopping not to get false alarm(wishfull thinking) as i know it will happen. So guess i will have to make decision if it's worth paying $30 a year to have cheaper fine or not. |
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TearAbite
join:2001-07-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Charter Pipeline
| reply to 81399672
you really should never get any false alarms..
If it werent for our (twice) failing motion sensors, we would have never had any...
But if you ever do have a failing sensor, expect 5-10 false alarms before you figger it out and get it fixed..  |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by TearAbite :you really should never get any false alarms.. If it werent for our (twice) failing motion sensors, we would have never had any... But if you ever do have a failing sensor, expect 5-10 false alarms before you figger it out and get it fixed.. I expect to get some false alarm, it's part of having an alarm system  . I am going have it monitored by internet security company so the system will never see a tech(except me ) |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
| reply to 81399672
Depends what you mean by false alarm. These are almost always caused by an incorrectly installed/designed alarm, sensors in the wrong places, not enough sensors, etc.
I have motion sensors overlap, so if only one goes off, it means nothing is wrong.
The alarm company will call the local police dept and speak to them, no computers involved.
When I lived in Corona, the alarm permit only cost $10 per year, didn't break the bank.
Make sure you design has a smoke/fire detector, will make your house insurance go down quite a bit too. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by jinjimbob :Depends what you mean by false alarm. These are almost always caused by an incorrectly installed/designed alarm, sensors in the wrong places, not enough sensors, etc. I have motion sensors overlap, so if only one goes off, it means nothing is wrong. The alarm company will call the local police dept and speak to them, no computers involved. When I lived in Corona, the alarm permit only cost $10 per year, didn't break the bank. Make sure you design has a smoke/fire detector, will make your house insurance go down quite a bit too. My house already has fire supression system and smoke detectors connected to outside fire bell which will alert the neighbors.
When i say false alarm, i mean for ex, i leave widows open and set my alarm(have windows on bypass), but window blinds is moving because of wind and motion detector goes off thinking someone is moving around my house. I guess, you're right usually it's user error. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs: 
| reply to 81399672
I happen to work for a company who has practically built the alarm permitting/false alarm billing industry.
There is an organization called the False Alarm Reduction Association, and it's purpose is mainly, you got it, to reduce false alarms.
One way to achieve this is by training to end-users on the usage of their alarm systems, and the other is by hefty fines for false alarms.
Each city has their own ordinance that must be followed. Permit fees are usually $25 or $35/year.
Depending on the amount of false alarms your city receives, the fine schedule can be small, or it can be really big.
Some cities even give a certain number of false alarms for free before you get charged. After that it can be a fixed rate for every alarm, or it can be stepped up in increments.
The underlying point is, police go on thousands upon thousands of false alarm calls each year, and this not only costs taxpayer money, but it prevents these officers from being able to respond to real calls when they occur.
Paying your permit fee (and false alarm fees) goes towards ensuring the police are getting some sort of reimbursement for their efforts by the people causing a majority of the expenses.
Some jurisdictions will not even dispatch officers if the permit fees are not paid or you are in arrears of any prior false alarm fines, so go ahead and don't pay if you don't care, but don't expect the cops to show up even if it's not a false alarm because they won't. And whatever loss you take is on you.
- FM |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| Thanks for reply, but chances are very high that they will come either way if I got permit or not. Last figure i read is that this city has around 71k of unpermited alarms. I posted this question to see if other here that has alarm in the city, actually have ther permit.
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| reply to 81399672
So let me get this straight, you will be intentionally leaving windows open knowing that it will cause false alarms? If so you are wasting police resources I hope they fine the hell out of you. There is no excuse for that. And no false alarms are not inevitable with a well designed and properly utilized alarm system. In 3 years I have yet to have my first.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by sholling :So let me get this straight, you will be intentionally leaving windows open knowing that it will cause false alarms? If so you are wasting police resources I hope they fine the hell out of you. There is no excuse for that. And no false alarms are not inevitable with a well designed and properly utilized alarm system. In 3 years I have yet to have my first. sometimes you should read comments twice, i gave an example of how false alarm could happen. At no point did i say that I would do it. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| When I lived in Glendora I had an alarm system in my home. It had motion sensors in a couple of places and I kept getting false alarms due to my cat.
It was my responsibility to ensure the system was functioning properly so I had to upgrade those sensors to "industrial grade" because they were not supposed to be as sensitive, but it still kept happening.
To the point where I got a letter from the police department stating that if I got any more false alarms, they were going to stop coming. Each time it had happened I had to pay a $50 fine.
I ended up just removing the sensors completely.
- FM |
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Valkyre
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2000-12-25
Valhalla
clubs: | reply to 81399672
Are burglaries going up in your neighborhood, or something? |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | said by Valkyre :Are burglaries going up in your neighborhood, or something? My next door neighbor had attempted break in during last weekend while away. Most of the houses on my block have an alarm and being how economy is doing, seem to be good time as ever to put in security alarm.
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| Also keep in mind, depending on your city's ordinance, you can be fined even if you're system is not the one that alerted the police (via the alarm monitoring co) to an alarm. i.e. if you have an audible alarm, it goes off, and your neighbor calls it in...
- FM |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by FutureMon :Also keep in mind, depending on your city's ordinance, you can be fined even if you're system is not the one that alerted the police (via the alarm monitoring co) to an alarm. i.e. if you have an audible alarm, it goes off, and your neighbor calls it in... - FM I will not be installing outside siren, it's unlikely for my neighbor to hear it unless i got my windows wide open |
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