pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
|  Dumb CLECs
Why haven't they built their own network by now?
Qwest finally gets the message and starts investing in fiber. We should be applauding this! Why is there so much sympathy for yet another company that didn't get the memo to start building its own network?
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Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
 ·Cingular Wireless
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| hmmm..... maybe bacause there are pesky roadblocks like ROW limitations and trenching costs involved, not to mention, Quest will do its utmost best to legally bar the CLEC's from putting so much as a toe into the FTTx market. Don't believe me, look what they did to projects like Utopia (hence the reason I hate gov't-funded networks even more, they're susceptible to the sleeping arrangements of politicians....). |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| reply to pnh102
"Why haven't they built their own network by now?"
Because the ILecs try and make that is difficult as possible. You have to follow certain rules to attach to their poles and even when you are going to go with their rules they do anything possible to delay you. They know CLecs can't just start planting poles because they will back opposition to the additional poles and franchise requests. They also know how up set people get over Vrad placement. In my city alone I can think of about 15 to 20 active CLecs off the top of my head. Could you imagine how many vrad type boxes there would be and how upset people would be about that. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to pnh102
im sure the ILECs would do anything and everything to "C-Block" a CLEC from getting full rights to the poles.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to a333
said by a333  : look what they did to projects like Utopia (hence the reason I hate gov't-funded networks even more, they're susceptible to the sleeping arrangements of politicians....). I would think you would hate "private" more than "government" since the "private is so dishonest. At least with the "government" we have a chance to vote out the crooks, with "private" we just pay more.
Also, There are different levels of "government" each level up is less responsive to the needs of the people.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to battleop
who says they can't use wireless? and in many areas the Power company owns the poles not the telco.
And for the other poster a Muni is not a CLEC. And they could have built out they just didnt. and now in many states, the state regulates the ROW and not the local areas. and why not go to the state and ask to pop up your own poles or put your line underground? |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| More and more Power companies are Clecs. In our area our Power Company is a Clec and it isn't very cooperative with the other CLecs either. Oh and it's also owned by the city government to boot. Wireless can be another problem because it's rather difficult to deploy new tower sites because people are afraid their eyes will fall out if they have too look at another tower.
A lot of people around here like to bitch about the lack of choice but they also like to bitch about the infrastructure that is needed to give them choice. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to RayW
Vote out the crooks for what? More crooks?? Hehe, good one...the day a crook is EFFECTIVELY replaced is the day pigs will fly, and hell freezes over. I.E. to call a politician honest is to call a whore a virgin...
Responsive or not, I personally view ALL levels of government as being composed of nothing more than a group of political opportunists. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | reply to battleop
You don't need a super large tower to offer wireless a small 200ft tower is usually fine. But in Ohio the major power company is a CLEC too they offer dial-up though in most of the area but using their CLEC brand- First Communications owned by First Energy. but AEP doesnt care to be a CLEC.
But also in Ohio we have a statewide ROW agreement. Which could be used to enter in the market. Especially if video was going to be offered.
Also in this area the cable company owns a great deal of their own poles. Power and Phone are on one side of the street and cable is on the other. |
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qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :Why haven't they built their own network by now? Qwest finally gets the message and starts investing in fiber. We should be applauding this! Why is there so much sympathy for yet another company that didn't get the memo to start building its own network? Because in most cases the poles are filled past safe capacity!
The power companies got there first, then the telcos and finally the cablecos. There hasn't been any capacity on the phone poles in most cities since the late 1970s-LONG BEFORE the WWW was a glimmer in anyone's thoughts. |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | reply to hottboiinnc
In Chattanooga, TN people protest towers even if they live miles away. This is from the same city that recently solved every problem they have. They now have their sights set on LED signs and their brightness. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to RayW
said by RayW :I would think you would hate "private" more than "government" since the "private is so dishonest. At least with the "government" we have a chance to vote out the crooks, with "private" we just pay more. That's silly. Government is the only true monopoly. Even with the worst of private companies, if you hate their service you can simply not pay them and not use their service and not be paying for something you don't like or can't use.
If you don't like your government, what can you do? Nothing.
said by RayW :Also, There are different levels of "government" each level up is less responsive to the needs of the people. The only thing that they are more responsive to is how much tax i can pay. I always vote for the candidate who promises to lower my taxes and they go up anyway. How's that for responsiveness?
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Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty |
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gigante
join:2000-06-30
Spring, TX
| reply to battleop
said by battleop : They now have their sights set on LED signs and their brightness. Oh My Goodness - i HATE those bright LED signs!!! |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| reply to a333
said by a333 :Vote out the crooks for what? More crooks?? Hehe, good one...the day a crook is EFFECTIVELY replaced is the day pigs will fly, and hell freezes over. I.E. to call a politician honest is to call a whore a virgin... Responsive or not, I personally view ALL levels of government as being composed of nothing more than a group of political opportunists. Sure glad I do not live in your city, nothing but crooks to choose from. I guess I have gotten spoiled living in a more honest area (well at least until you get to the state level). But I do hear of (and know of one) cities like yours nearby.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Oh, you can keep trying to be naive. Pretty much ANY politician these days, be they city, state, or national, have SOME kind of political agenda. Not to mention, politics is a pretty expensive business. Who's going to pay for all those events, rallies, and TV/phone ad campaigns? Surely not the meager salary that comes with election, eh?
It's not the politicians' default character that makes them crooks per se (in most cases at least). It's just the way the game is played that ends up making politicians bend down in some way or the other to special interests, generally due to "campaign contributions" made by such groups. Based on this, I for one can't fool myself into EVER believing that a politician actually cares for their constituents, and actually believes in the issues most of their constituents believe in. Sorry, I am just not that naive or gullible.
As to the "nothing but crooks to choose from", I remain in support of my statement. As I've explained, a politician WILL at some point have to bend down to special interests, whether it be voluntarily or not. Thus, it stands that (at least in the eyes of the average Joe), politicians are all crooks.
Example:
Politician "A" could have made fiery speeches on "change" and "bringing the troops back" during his/her campaign. They may very well be elected because of such (empty) promises. Then, once the time comes to actually implement all the fiery talk, politician A gets nowhere (cutting back troops? Where'll all those megamillion military contracts with Boeing/General Dynamics going to go?), and the cycle of despair begins once again, feeding a new round of politicians who take advantage of A's lack of achievements to win office and start the mentioned cycle again. "A" meanwhile sees that it's just easier to cooperate with special interests and promote their goals quietly, and simply pretend that the democracy exists when it's effectively an oligarchy.
So, where does the average Joe (who's completely out of the above need-to-know loop) stand? They feel betrayed, as do their fellow citizens, and they vote for the next "maverick" aka whoever can make the most fiery speeches and empty promises next elections, and they keep this "ball of oligarchy" rolling. If you think this ONLY happens at the national level, you are sorely misguided and have no idea of what's going on in gov'ts in ALL levels. The example I gave may involve only national policy, but the idea stays much the same if you take a long and hard look at state and local politics.
EDIT:
And attempting to extrapolate your city's politics to that of larger and more bureaucratic cities like New York, Washington, and numerous others isn't exactly the most astute analysis one would expect from any informed citizen in these times....maybe my expectations for intelligent discussion are just a bit too high..... |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| said by a333 : About what I would expect from NY and the politicians I have seen that claim that as home. Oh well, you can believe what you want, but there are places that have local government for the people (not all the people, that is impossible, there are always someone who does not like what is going on).
And on your edit, I do not extrapolate my smaller town to your larger one, I know the bigger the pie, the less honest a politician will probably be. Someday when you grow up and get out into the rest of the world then you might learn that not every place is like where you are now.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | And someday when you poke your head out of your seeming Utopia you claim to live in you'll figure out that corrupt politicians exist in pretty much every level everywhere, probably even in your own town/city.
And your comment about New York just serves to show your ignorance and utter lack of education. Oh well, now I know what I should've expected from you.
You can try all you want to put down NY but you haven't answered a single point I made in my post.
And please, I've traveled plenty, and actually OUTSIDE the good ol' US, so I KNOW what it's like around this thing we call the world.
Maybe something other a vacuous rant or mere personal attacks would actually help further your point. I don't know who you're trying to impress with these attempted insults (which by the way is not exactly improving my already bad impression of your state either), but you sure as hell aren't impressing me...
Try again... |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | I use to live in NY. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY | So, you "use" to live in NY... and I LIVE and HAVE LIVED in NY. What's your point? |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| said by a333 :So, you "use" to live in NY... and I LIVE and HAVE LIVED in NY. What's your point? You accused me of never having been anywhere other than this area here which, compared to places I have lived in like NY, has a relatively honest local government in most areas.
I just pointed out to you that I do have experience living in other states. Including the one you seem to think is so bad (and I agreed with you), and thus to you, every other place is the same.
Some day when you get older and if you get the right job, you might have the experience of living in other areas and seeing the diversity that is America.
In the mean time, enjoy your narrow view point, America is NOT just like N.Y. or Calif., despite what some folks like to think.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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