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fAcEtIOUs
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3 edits

Lessig abandons Net Neutrality stance

A more interesting part of this WSJ story is that Professor Lessig from Stanford, the darling of the "Internet should be Free" and the anti-telco crowd, has switched positions on Net Neutrality:
»online.wsj.com/article/SB1229292···065.html
But Lawrence Lessig, an Internet law professor at Stanford University and an influential proponent of network neutrality, recently shifted gears by saying at a conference that content providers should be able to pay for faster service. Mr. Lessig, who has known President-elect Barack Obama since their days teaching law at the University of Chicago, has been mentioned as a candidate to head the Federal Communications Commission, which regulates the telecommunications industry.

The shifting positions concern some purists. "What they're talking about is selling you the right to skip ahead in the line," says Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, a Washington-based advocacy group. "It would mean the first part of your business plan would be a deal with AT&T to get into their super-tier -- that is anathema to a culture of innovation."

But some of those who advise the new president on technology have changed their view on network neutrality. Stanford's Mr. Lessig, for one, has softened his opposition to variable service tiers. At a conference, he argued that carriers won't become kingmakers so long as the faster service at a higher price is available to anyone willing to pay it.

"There are good reasons to be able to prioritize traffic," Mr. Lessig said later in an interview. "If everyone had to pay the same rates for postal service, than you wouldn't be able to differentiate between sending a greeting card to your grandma versus sending an overnight letter to your lawyer."

Microsoft, which appealed to Congress to save network neutrality just two years ago, has changed its position completely. "Network neutrality is a policy avenue the company is no longer pursuing," Microsoft said in a statement. The Redmond, Wash., software giant now favors legislation to allow network operators to offer different tiers of service to content companies.

Yahoo now has a digital subscriber-line partnership with AT&T. Some have speculated that the deal has caused Yahoo to go silent on the network-neutrality issue.

An AT&T spokesman said the company should be able to strike any deal it sees fit with content companies. Yahoo said in a statement that carriers and content companies "should find a consensus on how best to ensure that Americans have access to a world-class Internet."

Richard Whitt, Google's head of public affairs, denies the company's proposal would violate network neutrality. Nevertheless, he says he's unsure how committed President-elect Obama will remain to the principle.

"If you look at his plans," says Mr. Whitt, "they are much less specific than they were before."
Looks like 1 of Obama's advisers on the internet and a possible FCC commissioner has rethought his position concerning paying for better & faster service. Bye bye Net Neutrality under Obama!! WOW, Lessig is starting to sound like a spokesperson for AT&T & Comcast while speaking the words of AT&T's past CEO about content providers paying the ISPs for their traffic.

I guess Obama has already fallen in line with the wishes of the telcos and the cable companies.
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said by fAcEtIOUs:

A more interesting part of this WSJ story is that Professor Lessig from Stanford, the darling of the "Internet should be Free" and the anti-telco crowd, has switched positions on Net Neutrality:
»online.wsj.com/article/SB1229292···065.html
....
if the article is wrong on the basic premise of the story about google and net neutrality, why should a reader believe their characterization of Lessig's position is correct?


fAcEtIOUs
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said by nasadude:

said by fAcEtIOUs:

A more interesting part of this WSJ story is that Professor Lessig from Stanford, the darling of the "Internet should be Free" and the anti-telco crowd, has switched positions on Net Neutrality:
»online.wsj.com/article/SB1229292···065.html
....
if the article is wrong on the basic premise of the story about google and net neutrality, why should a reader believe their characterization of Lessig's position is correct?
Who said the WSJ article is wrong? Karl?

And anyway, they quoted Lessig directly in his own words. So even if you don't buy the WSJ story and their slant on the subject, I doubt they lied about what he said.
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funchords
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2 edits

reply to fAcEtIOUs
I heard the same thing and I'm confused as to what Lessig is talking about.

For $10 more a month, my neighbor buys Comcast's 8 Mbps package, 2 Mbps more than my 6 Mbps package.

Is it fair that 25% more of my neighbor's packets get through than mine? (Obviously, yes.)

Okay, now add border gateway congestion and normal TCP equilibrium has us down to 2 Mbps each. His 8 Mbps modem and my 6 Mbps modem are not the bottleneck. So let's say the ISP does a little preferential hocus-pocus and changes things so that 25% more of my neighbor's packets get through than mine. Wow, that's not so clearly fair or unfair. But once it is understood that both my neighbor and I are winding up with 10% of our packets dropped in that situation, that seems okay.

Is that what Lessig is talking about?

(Quoting Lessig)"There are good reasons to be able to prioritize traffic," Mr. Lessig said later in an interview. "If everyone had to pay the same rates for postal service, than you wouldn't be able to differentiate between sending a greeting card to your grandma versus sending an overnight letter to your lawyer."
When the USPS started to offer overnight service, they bought additional transport and facilities to ensure that overnight packages did not displace or delay any first-class mail. Plus the USPS is a sender-pays system, the users get it for free. I don't think it's a great comparison to the NN issues.

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Karl Bode
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2 edits

reply to fAcEtIOUs

So even if you don't buy the WSJ story and their slant on the subject, I doubt they lied about what he said.
You wouldn't.

You can read Lessig's own thoughts on the Journal piece at his OWN BLOG, which calls the Journal piece "made up drama":
The article is an indirect effort to gin up a drama about an alleged shift in Obama's policies about network neutrality.

nasadude

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reply to fAcEtIOUs

said by fAcEtIOUs:

Who said the WSJ article is wrong? Karl?...
well Karl already pointed out Lessig responds in his blog; the Google guy the WSJ interviewed, Richard Whitt, responds in the Google blog (Karl provides the link).

The authors of the WSJ piece are either morons, intellectually lazy or pushing an agenda - you pick.


Karl Bode
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Who said the WSJ article is wrong? Karl?...
TK can also take his pick from Ars Technica, David Isenberg, Techdirt, Portfolio, Tim Lee and about fifty other outlets this morning....

Two of the Journals five sources dispute what they told the Journal (Whitt, Lessig) and the report itself, while the other comes anonymously from an industry that's spending billions to discredit Google ahead of a renewed network neutrality debate...

Not rocket science.


funchords
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2 edits

said by Karl Bode:

Two of the Journals five sources dispute what they told the Journal (Whitt, Lessig) and the report itself, while the other comes anonymously from an industry that's spending billions to discredit Google ahead of a renewed network neutrality debate...

Not rocket science.
I'm quoted in that article as well, but in a completely different context. I don't recall saying what I'm quoted to have said, but I probably did at some point or another.

I definitely was never interviewed for this story. Nobody should think that I lent my support for the notion that Google is walking away from NN.

My quote is about AT&T and its own video service. In the context of an ISP offering its own video service that competes with content providers, it could abuse prioritization to give itself a leg up. That's what I'm quoted as saying and it's generally what I would say to anyone about that subject.
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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

reply to funchords

said by funchords:

I heard the same thing and I'm confused as to what Lessig is talking about.

For $10 more a month, my neighbor buys Comcast's 8 Mbps package, 2 Mbps more than my 6 Mbps package.

Is it fair that 25% more of my neighbor's packets get through than mine? (Obviously, yes.)

Okay, now add border gateway congestion and normal TCP equilibrium has us down to 2 Mbps each. His 8 Mbps modem and my 6 Mbps modem are not the bottleneck. So let's say the ISP does a little preferential hocus-pocus and changes things so that 25% more of my neighbor's packets get through than mine. Wow, that's not so clearly fair or unfair. But once it is understood that both my neighbor and I are winding up with 10% of our packets dropped in that situation, that seems okay.

You are confusing delivery SPEED with delivery CAPACITY. The 6Mbs vs 8Mbs comparison has to do with how fast the packets can get delivered not how many packets get delivered. If you and your neighbor download the same file, he will get it in 75% of the time it takes you. The only time the speed is an issue is when both of you download at your respective provisioned speeds for the same time span. At 8Mbs this means 33% more data/packets than at 6Mbs. So long as the network is congested (so packets must be dropped) the delivery speed has no effect on how many packets get delivered (so long as the same AMOUNT of data is being talked about).


funchords
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said by RARPSL:

You are confusing delivery SPEED with delivery CAPACITY.
Go back and read it in context. I was making an example. I'm not confused about anything -- I get it.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.

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