| reply to pnh102
Re: hmmm.... *sigh*.. You don't get it do you. The PROBLEM was NOT with 'foreign' operatives. The problem was that AMERICAN CITIZENS were being illegally wiretapped. Do you have any idea what the constitution is? Have you ever read it (the real one, not the 'bush doctrine version'. Guess what, EVERY AMERICAN has the right to be secure in their home. Guess what, you CANNOT wiretap an AMERICAN WITHOUT A WARRANT! What part of the rights of the people don't you understand..
The problem is this. They find a cell phone overseas, with an American phone number. The problem is they chose not to get a warrant (AS REQUIRED BY THE CONSTITUTION), and spied on an AMERICAN in AMERICA. I don't CARE if an Al-queada operative called my phone in the US. Without a WARRANT, they have NO RIGHT to monitor me. The OTHER problem is that they are doing MUCH MORE than the warrant allows, when they ever bother to get a warrant. If you've ever been server a warrant, I suguest you read it. It says WHAT and WHERE they are allowed to look. The cops CANNOT look in your trunk WITHOUT A WARRANT. PERIOD. The Bush regime would have ever cop searching every car, every home, every cell phone, and every credit card transaction of every american in the lame hope that the catch the evil 'terrist'.
Bush should go to jail. Cheney should go to jail. Everyone invovled should go to jail. Period.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Only problem with your thesis is, foreign nationals use our system to communicate with each other in the planning of attacks or other items that are "against the law". I know of several unpublicized potential incidents that were thwarted by some of the monitoring that you do not like. If you can prevent non-US citizens and US Citizens of Convenience (yes, some folks become citizens of the US to support their organization/country), then I might agree with you.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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| The burden of proof is on the government to prove an illegal action was taken. The burden of proof is not on me to prove I'm innocent. You know, that whole "Innocent until proven guilty" thing?
I, as an US citizen, have a reasonable expectation to be secure in my persons and effects. The only time that can be violated legally is when presented with a valid search warrant signed by a judge and that search warrant only covers what is listed on the warrant and nothing else. This right is guaranteed by the 4th amendment of the Bill of Rights.
Will certain nefarious individuals use the system against us? Yes, there will always be those who subvert the system by using it to their advantage. But that has been happening since this country was founded and will never stop. But the system is place to protect citizens from their government.
I would rather die free than live in tyranny. |
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| reply to karlmarx
I agree with what you said because I think a close friend of mine is a victim. But when you think about it there is not a lot we can do about it. I was brutally attacked by a state agency and lost everything because I told them not to tell me what to do in my own home.But the main factor was that I had the nerve to say I was a Christian and under their rules and regulations that was a huge no-no.I wish I could have found a good lawyer at that time but for some reason no one wanted to go against the state.Imagine that. |
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| Another point of reference in my belief that it doesn't matter what the Constitution says what the Supreme Court says is illegal or constitutional or any other lofty ideals that we mistakenly think that the various powers "have" to abide by. If those holding the power want to infringe upon your rights, they will and can because of the mere fact they can. The only recourse you have regrettably, is a might vs. right stance-think American Revolution situation.Local, State and Federal authorities can seize your bank accounts wiretap your phone harass and arrest you you and hold you without due process etc etc etc. You can only hope that you are not on their "list" and either you go along with the game or you fight it. Don't think the courts are on your side either especially when it involves Federal stuff. Bush and his administration have routinely violated US Constitutional Law ,International Law and common decency and not one penalty has been assessed and this regime will walk away free and clear of any charges. |
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