| 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good ISPs don't have to take this route; they're protected under safe harbor provisions within the DMCA. ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.
Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce.
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4 edits | ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.
Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce. (In my best Christopher Walken True Romance voice): I love this guy....like a safe mall for "honest commerce"...priceless!
Who exactly in this safe mall of honest utopia ensures that BayTSP's data is accurate, that false positives aren't being applied, that consumers have grievances heard? Who pays for it? How do tiny carriers pay for it? Do they get sued if they don't play along? Who manages the master database required? How is that funded? |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX | Don't forget the Dirty Harry pic that sorta drives home the point. You can't get that common, good, honest commerce without a .44 shoved in your face. Makes me feel all warm n fuzzy inside! |
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 hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:ISPs don't have to take this route; they're protected under safe harbor provisions within the DMCA. ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good. Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce. Hey TK,
How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?
Would you then become a Pirate?
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The problem is accountability. What happens when someone is wrongly accused? You know it's going to happen, especially if automated filtering and reporting systems are involved. How exactly are you supposed to prove you didn't do anything wrong when there is no real standard of proof required? And why should you have to prove anything? In this country, we have always presumed someone innocent until they're proven guilty. And if you take time out of your life to prove your innocence, what do you get for your trouble besides not losing your Internet connection? What compensation will you receive for being wrongly accused? None, I'd wager. |
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| said by ISurfTooMuch:The problem is accountability. What happens when someone is wrongly accused? You know it's going to happen, especially if automated filtering and reporting systems are involved. How exactly are you supposed to prove you didn't do anything wrong when there is no real standard of proof required? And why should you have to prove anything? In this country, we have always presumed someone innocent until they're proven guilty. And if you take time out of your life to prove your innocence, what do you get for your trouble besides not losing your Internet connection? What compensation will you receive for being wrongly accused? None, I'd wager. You can always sue.
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said by hopeflicker:How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted? Would you then become a Pirate? What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post.
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hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | said by fAcEtIOUs:said by hopeflicker:How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted? Would you then become a Pirate? What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post. From the article:
The RIAA says they'll still file single lawsuits when applicable. In addition to quietly brokering three strikes deals with ISPs and pushing for piracy filters, the RIAA is hoping to enact a piracy tax, that could tack $5 to $10 onto every broadband subscriber's bill.
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 Cthen
join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
How do I sit at home and play a game with someone across the country or even the world through a mall?
You mean the connection I pay $62.95 for is just glorified access to a mall? I have to pay a monthly fee just to get in? I can shoplift too? Please by all means explain to me in detail how to shoplift from »www.newegg.com Really, I know alot of people who want to know what it would take to do so! 
Wait, you mean I have to go to the mall now to read up on DSLR? Not only that I have to go out to do this and not in my home anymore?
Are you sure you retired rich and not confusing it with being forced into retirement for being senile? 
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK. |
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| said by russotto:Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK. You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent?
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 mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | reply to hopeflicker
I wonder if TK enjoys paying $17-18 a CD when there's usually 1 to 3 good songs on it for an average Big Label artist.
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by russotto:Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK. You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent? Rather like that, only with even less evidence. What, did you think one injustice justified another? |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by russotto:Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK. You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent? For someone who quotes the law, you have no clue.
You can contest a red light camera ticket and, yes, you can beat them. My mother got one of those when she stopped on the line. The judge found her not guilty.
Also, in Baltimore City, they reset the amber times on the lights to 2.9 seconds. That was illegal and when a lawyer who got a ticket finally challenged the law in court, he was also found not guilty.
Just because you are charged with a crime (either arrested or ticketed) doesn't prove guilt. |
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1 edit | reply to fAcEtIOUs
No, if you are photographed by one of those cameras, you are mailed a citation, and, if you like, you can go to court to fight the ticket. How is this different that a cop handing you the ticket? Most people choose to pay it, but you are automatically given your day in court if you decide to do that.
But if you are referring to the practice of using the license plate to identify the vehicle for ticketing purposes instead of the driver, there is plenty of precedent for this. If, for example, a company hires someone and gives them use of a vehicle, then the company assumes responsibility for that person's actions when driving that vehicle. It isn't much of a stretch to use the same logic when dealing with these cameras. If I loan you my car, you have a responsibility not to do anything with it that will get me into legal trouble, but I chose to voluntarily give you the use of my vehicle, so I assumed responsibility for your actions with it.
In addition, the RIAA is not a law enforcement agency. Its standards of conduct are not set by a legislative body. It can pretty much do what it wants. With the scenario above, the way it is handled is determined by a legislative body that is elected by the public. The RIAA is deciding on its own what the rules should be and then using strong-arm tactics to get others to go along. |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Copy of form letter that will be sent to ISPs by RIAA Here is a copy of the form letter that the RIAA will send to ISPs in light of their new tactics:
»news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-101270···1_3-0-20
VIA EMAIL *ISP* *Date* Sir or Madam: I am contacting you on behalf of the Recording Industry Association of America, Inc. (RIAA) and its member music companies. The RIAA is a trade association whose member companies create, manufacture, and distribute approximately ninety (90) percent of all legitimate music sold in the United States. We believe a user on your network is offering an infringing sound recording for download through a peer to peer application. We have attached below the details of the infringing activity. We have a good faith belief that this activity is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. We are asking for your immediate assistance in stopping this illegal activity. Specifically, we respectfully request that you remove or disable access to the unauthorized music. We believe it is in everyone's interest for music consumers to be better educated about the copyright law and ways to legally enjoy music online. The major record companies have actively licensed their music to dozens of innovative services where fans can go to listen to and/or purchase their favorite songs. A list of many of these services is available at www.musicunited.org. It should be made clear by this letter that downloading and distributing copyrighted songs via peer to peer networks is not an anonymous activity. Not only is distributing copyrighted works on a peer to peer network a public activity visible by other users on that network, an historic 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision affirmed the unmistakable unlawfulness of uploading and downloading copyrighted works. The website www.musicunited.org contains valuable information about what is legal and what is not when it comes to copying music. In addition to taking steps to notify the network user at issue about the illegal nature of his/her activity, we strongly encourage you to refer him/her to this helpful site. Please bear in mind that this letter serves as an official notice to you that this network user may be liable for the illegal activity occurring on your network. This letter does not constitute a waiver of our members' rights to recover or claim relief for damages incurred by this illegal activity, nor does it waive the right to bring legal action against the user at issue for engaging in music theft. We assert that the information in this notice is accurate, based upon the data available to us. Under penalty of perjury, we submit that the RIAA is authorized to act on behalf of its member companies in matters involving the infringement of their sound recordings, including enforcing their copyrights and common law rights on the Internet. Thank you in advance for your prompt assistance in this matter. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me via e-mail at antipiracy2@riaa.com, via telephone at *Phone Number*, or via mail at RIAA, 1025 F Street, NW, 10th Floor, Washington, D.C., 20004. Please reference *Case ID* in any response or communication regarding this matter. Sincerely, RIAA List of infringing content ------------------------------ *Infringing Content* ------------------------- INFRINGEMENT DETAIL ------------------- Infringing Work : XXXXXX Filename : XXXXXX First found (UTC): XXXXXX Last found (UTC): XXXXXX Filesize : XXXXXX IP Address: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX IP Port: XXXXX Network: XXXXXX Protocol: XXXXXX
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| reply to mrchris
Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good You're listening to the wrong music if you can only find 1-3 songs on an Artists CD that you like. |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Re: Copy of form letter that will be sent to ISPs by RIAA And here's the section of the law which says the ISPs don't have to do anything about that letter:
17 USC 512
(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications.— A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider’s transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections, if—
(1) the transmission of the material was initiated by or at the direction of a person other than the service provider;
(2) the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;
(3) the service provider does not select the recipients of the material except as an automatic response to the request of another person;
(4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and
(5) the material is transmitted through the system or network without modification of its content.
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to fAcEtIOUs
Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good if the piracy tax was passed into law it would no longer be piracy to use P2P to get a movie because the tax would be a license agreement to download at will.
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 HangmnDon't Fight It...It's InevitablePremium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by hopeflicker:How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted? Would you then become a Pirate? What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post. Just answer the damn question..quit side stepping OH VOCAL ONE
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