republican-creole
site Search:


 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery






how-to block ads


 
Uniqs:
3330
Share Topic
Post a:
Post a:

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

ISPs don't have to take this route; they're protected under safe harbor provisions within the DMCA.
ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.

Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:33
Host:
Time Warner Intern..
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

4 edits

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.

Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce.
(In my best Christopher Walken True Romance voice): I love this guy....like a safe mall for "honest commerce"...priceless!

Who exactly in this safe mall of honest utopia ensures that BayTSP's data is accurate, that false positives aren't being applied, that consumers have grievances heard? Who pays for it? How do tiny carriers pay for it? Do they get sued if they don't play along? Who manages the master database required? How is that funded?
Talis

join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

Don't forget the Dirty Harry pic that sorta drives home the point. You can't get that common, good, honest commerce without a .44 shoved in your face. Makes me feel all warm n fuzzy inside!

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
said by Linklist:

ISPs don't have to take this route; they're protected under safe harbor provisions within the DMCA.
ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.

Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce.
Hey TK,

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?

Would you then become a Pirate?
--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by hopeflicker:

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?

Would you then become a Pirate?
What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by Linklist:

said by hopeflicker:

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?

Would you then become a Pirate?
What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post.
From the article:

The RIAA says they'll still file single lawsuits when applicable. In addition to quietly brokering three strikes deals with ISPs and pushing for piracy filters, the RIAA is hoping to enact a piracy tax, that could tack $5 to $10 onto every broadband subscriber's bill.
--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn

Glaice
Still around here
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

I wonder if TK enjoys paying $17-18 a CD when there's usually 1 to 3 good songs on it for an average Big Label artist.
--
»[FS] PC games, music and movies for sale
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

You're listening to the wrong music if you can only find 1-3 songs on an Artists CD that you like.

Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
said by Linklist:

said by hopeflicker:

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?

Would you then become a Pirate?
What does a piracy tax have to do with a 3 strikes policy. I said nothing about a piracy tax in my post.
Just answer the damn question..quit side stepping OH VOCAL ONE
--
»davescustompc.com

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
said by hopeflicker:

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?
It isn't the clowns pushing the piracy tax. It is those defenders of piracy - the EFF that is pushing for that solution:

»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···930.html
The EFF suggests RIAA support a "voluntary collective licensing regime" -- basically, a legal peer-to-peer network that'd let music fans pay a small monthly fee for the right to freely trade music. A survey conducted this summer found an overwhelming 80 percent of current peer-to-peer users would be interested in paying for such a system. If organized, it'd put a stamp of approval on a process that's going on anyway -- and, for an inconsequential individual fee of something like $5 a month, the industry would be able to pay rights-holders based on how much their music is being downloaded.

"The more people share, the more money goes to rights-holders," the EFF points out. "The more competition in P2P software, the more rapid the innovation and improvement. The more freedom for fans to upload what they care about, the deeper the catalog."

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

First, let's not conflate a voluntary fee with a tax.

Second, what we have now certainly isn't working, and this new plan just moves the jurist from the court to the ISP.

Third, what EFF is proposing is a model that is compatible with the current "download from iTunes" method, the older "buy the CD" method, the historic license with ASCAP/BMI method, and even the older "share with your friends" method.

Why are you against that?

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.—H. L. Mencken
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1

1 edit
said by Linklist:

said by hopeflicker:

How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?
It isn't the clowns pushing the piracy tax. It is those defenders of piracy - the EFF that is pushing for that solution:

»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···930.html
The EFF suggests RIAA support a "voluntary collective licensing regime" -- basically, a legal peer-to-peer network that'd let music fans pay a small monthly fee for the right to freely trade music. A survey conducted this summer found an overwhelming 80 percent of current peer-to-peer users would be interested in paying for such a system. If organized, it'd put a stamp of approval on a process that's going on anyway -- and, for an inconsequential individual fee of something like $5 a month, the industry would be able to pay rights-holders based on how much their music is being downloaded.

"The more people share, the more money goes to rights-holders," the EFF points out. "The more competition in P2P software, the more rapid the innovation and improvement. The more freedom for fans to upload what they care about, the deeper the catalog."
»www.portfolio.com/news-markets/t···Web-Guru

"Warner Music Group has tapped industry veteran Jim Griffin to spearhead a controversial plan to bundle a monthly fee into consumers' internet-service bills for unlimited access to music".

I'll ask again. How would **YOU** feel about having to pay a piracy tax if these clowns did pay off politicians to get this new form of extortion enacted?

--
There is no love untouched by hate
No unity without discord
There is no courage without fear
There is no peace without a war
There is no wisdom without regret
No admiration without scorn
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
The problem is accountability. What happens when someone is wrongly accused? You know it's going to happen, especially if automated filtering and reporting systems are involved. How exactly are you supposed to prove you didn't do anything wrong when there is no real standard of proof required? And why should you have to prove anything? In this country, we have always presumed someone innocent until they're proven guilty. And if you take time out of your life to prove your innocence, what do you get for your trouble besides not losing your Internet connection? What compensation will you receive for being wrongly accused? None, I'd wager.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by ISurfTooMuch:

The problem is accountability. What happens when someone is wrongly accused? You know it's going to happen, especially if automated filtering and reporting systems are involved. How exactly are you supposed to prove you didn't do anything wrong when there is no real standard of proof required? And why should you have to prove anything? In this country, we have always presumed someone innocent until they're proven guilty. And if you take time out of your life to prove your innocence, what do you get for your trouble besides not losing your Internet connection? What compensation will you receive for being wrongly accused? None, I'd wager.
You can always sue.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by russotto:

Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK.
You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by Linklist:

said by russotto:

Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK.
You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent?
Rather like that, only with even less evidence. What, did you think one injustice justified another?
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by Linklist:

said by russotto:

Ah, so the accuser gets the benefit of automatic process to redress his grievance, and the accused has to sue if he believes he's falsely accused. Way to turn the system of justice on its head, TK.
You mean like "Red light" cameras where you are automatically guilty unless you can prove you're innocent?
For someone who quotes the law, you have no clue.

You can contest a red light camera ticket and, yes, you can beat them. My mother got one of those when she stopped on the line. The judge found her not guilty.

Also, in Baltimore City, they reset the amber times on the lights to 2.9 seconds. That was illegal and when a lawyer who got a ticket finally challenged the law in court, he was also found not guilty.

Just because you are charged with a crime (either arrested or ticketed) doesn't prove guilt.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 edit
No, if you are photographed by one of those cameras, you are mailed a citation, and, if you like, you can go to court to fight the ticket. How is this different that a cop handing you the ticket? Most people choose to pay it, but you are automatically given your day in court if you decide to do that.

But if you are referring to the practice of using the license plate to identify the vehicle for ticketing purposes instead of the driver, there is plenty of precedent for this. If, for example, a company hires someone and gives them use of a vehicle, then the company assumes responsibility for that person's actions when driving that vehicle. It isn't much of a stretch to use the same logic when dealing with these cameras. If I loan you my car, you have a responsibility not to do anything with it that will get me into legal trouble, but I chose to voluntarily give you the use of my vehicle, so I assumed responsibility for your actions with it.

In addition, the RIAA is not a law enforcement agency. Its standards of conduct are not set by a legislative body. It can pretty much do what it wants. With the scenario above, the way it is handled is determined by a legislative body that is elected by the public. The RIAA is deciding on its own what the rules should be and then using strong-arm tactics to get others to go along.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit

Re: 3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

said by ISurfTooMuch:

No, if you are photographed by one of those cameras, you are mailed a citation, and, if you like, you can go to court to fight the ticket. How is this different that a cop handing you the ticket?
Here's the difference. True story.

I get a license suspension notice in the mail. I track it down to a Beaverton Police Department photo-radar ticket earned by my 27-year-old daughter in her car (registered to me). I'm a 45-year-old man with a mustache and goatee and short red hair. She's got long blond hair, no facial hair, and is of the opposite sex.

Go I go down to court to plead, "not me" and the judge says that I look like the person in the picture, but I can have a trial and he'll call in the operator of the Photo Radar van for me to cross-examine (because somehow she has a superior ability to tell the difference??)!

Then I get called to go to another city for business which conflicts with that court date, so I submit my package in writing, go down there again on a Saturday because Monday was supposed to be the trial -- no drop box for weekend delivery and if I don't file the package by Monday, I can't submit in writing by court's rules.

I go back there on a Monday, get a new date and I submit my package anyway.

Hearing nothing on the package, I go back on the new date to learn from the clerk that my case has been dismissed. But now I have to go to the DMV with some paperwork and un-suspend my license (which hadn't taken effect yet but apparently would).

So I did that -- I get no receipt back for that delivery, I just have to hope that the right people got it. (I never got any confirmation from the court that my case was dismissed nor did I get anything from DMV that the license suspension was cancelled or lifted!)

Every step of the way was a hassle, there was no certainty to any of it.

Had a cop pulled her over, she would have received the ticket, instead. He also would have been able to weigh all the factors and apply something called "discretion" and given her the ticket if there was a safety factor or given her a warning if there was not one -- or if she was unlicensed or uninsured, the officer could have taken more appropriate action.

This is just lazy "surveillance-society" law enforcement and I'd prefer to keep human beings in charge of something so disruptive.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
said by ISurfTooMuch:

No, if you are photographed by one of those cameras, you are mailed a citation, and, if you like, you can go to court to fight the ticket. How is this different that a cop handing you the ticket?
i see the cameras as much different since a cop can make the decision to ticket or warn. they can also issue a ticket to the operator and not the owner. i have never gotten a nastygram from a camera but i still hold the opinion that cops are still better at traffic enforcement then a machine. the cop punches up your record on the car PC, sees you have a clean license for years. at that point he might decide that a good warning is suitable, where as someone with previous offenses he could issue a ticket knowing that warnings clearly havent worked.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
·Comcast
How do I sit at home and play a game with someone across the country or even the world through a mall?

You mean the connection I pay $62.95 for is just glorified access to a mall? I have to pay a monthly fee just to get in? I can shoplift too? Please by all means explain to me in detail how to shoplift from »www.newegg.com Really, I know alot of people who want to know what it would take to do so!

Wait, you mean I have to go to the mall now to read up on DSLR? Not only that I have to go out to do this and not in my home anymore?

Are you sure you retired rich and not confusing it with being forced into retirement for being senile?
--
"I like to reffer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondeck

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
Here is a copy of the form letter that the RIAA will send to ISPs in light of their new tactics:
»news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-101270···1_3-0-20
VIA EMAIL
*ISP*
*Date*

Sir or Madam:

I am contacting you on behalf of the Recording Industry Association of America, Inc. (RIAA) and its member music companies. The RIAA is a trade association whose member companies create, manufacture, and distribute approximately ninety (90) percent of all legitimate music sold in the United States.

We believe a user on your network is offering an infringing sound recording for download through a peer to peer application. We have attached below the details of the infringing activity.

We have a good faith belief that this activity is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. We are asking for your immediate assistance in stopping this illegal activity. Specifically, we respectfully request that you remove or disable access to the unauthorized music.

We believe it is in everyone's interest for music consumers to be better educated about the copyright law and ways to legally enjoy music online. The major record companies have actively licensed their music to dozens of innovative services where fans can go to listen to and/or purchase their favorite songs. A list of many of these services is available at www.musicunited.org.

It should be made clear by this letter that downloading and distributing copyrighted songs via peer to peer networks is not an anonymous activity. Not only is distributing copyrighted works on a peer to peer network a public activity visible by other users on that network, an historic 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision affirmed the unmistakable unlawfulness of uploading and downloading copyrighted works. The website www.musicunited.org contains valuable information about what is legal and what is not when it comes to copying music. In addition to taking steps to notify the network user at issue about the illegal nature of his/her activity, we strongly encourage you to refer him/her to this helpful site.

Please bear in mind that this letter serves as an official notice to you that this network user may be liable for the illegal activity occurring on your network. This letter does not constitute a waiver of our members' rights to recover or claim relief for damages incurred by this illegal activity, nor does it waive the right to bring legal action against the user at issue for engaging in music theft. We assert that the information in this notice is accurate, based upon the data available to us. Under penalty of perjury, we submit that the RIAA is authorized to act on behalf of its member companies in matters involving the infringement of their sound recordings, including enforcing their copyrights and common law rights on the Internet.

Thank you in advance for your prompt assistance in this matter. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me via e-mail at antipiracy2@riaa.com, via telephone at *Phone Number*, or via mail at RIAA, 1025 F Street, NW, 10th Floor, Washington, D.C., 20004. Please reference *Case ID* in any response or communication regarding this matter.

Sincerely,

RIAA

List of infringing content
------------------------------
*Infringing Content*
-------------------------
INFRINGEMENT DETAIL
-------------------
Infringing Work : XXXXXX
Filename : XXXXXX
First found (UTC): XXXXXX
Last found (UTC): XXXXXX
Filesize : XXXXXX
IP Address: XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
IP Port: XXXXX
Network: XXXXXX
Protocol: XXXXXX

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Re: Copy of form letter that will be sent to ISPs by RIAA

And here's the section of the law which says the ISPs don't have to do anything about that letter:

17 USC 512

(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications.— A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider’s transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections, if—
(1) the transmission of the material was initiated by or at the direction of a person other than the service provider;
(2) the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;
(3) the service provider does not select the recipients of the material except as an automatic response to the request of another person;
(4) no copy of the material made by the service provider in the course of such intermediate or transient storage is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to anyone other than anticipated recipients, and no such copy is maintained on the system or network in a manner ordinarily accessible to such anticipated recipients for a longer period than is reasonably necessary for the transmission, routing, or provision of connections; and
(5) the material is transmitted through the system or network without modification of its content.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
if the piracy tax was passed into law it would no longer be piracy to use P2P to get a movie because the tax would be a license agreement to download at will.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Saturday, 25-May 01:37:58 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 13.5 years online © 1999-2013 dslreports.com.
Most commented news this week
Hot Topics