Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to grumpy3b
Re: Same reason the DMV gets away with some questions... said by grumpy3b:You can never drive faster than: A) 55MPH B) The posted speed limit C) Then is safe D) Some other inane answer... in theory B&C are the same answer because the posted speed limit is supposed to be the MAXIMUM safe speed we are allowed to drive. Unfortunately, there will always be people who say "I was driving the posted limit, it shouldn't matter if the street was congested."
In my early 20s I got a few traffic tickets. Enough that I had to go to court instead of pay by mail. I remember there was some guy charged with driving 90 in a 40 mph zone (city street). The judge asked how he pled. He said "not guilty." The judge was astonished. He took a different tone, asking why this kid felt he was not guilty. The kid said "the speed limit wasn't posted." The judge asked the kid if he had his license with him. The kid said "yes." To which the judge ordered a deputy to seize it. The whole room burst into laughter.
I think the cap issue is similar. Most people interpret "unlimited" in terms of what's average for the average person. Not sharing files 24x7, running servers, etc.
Mark |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | said by amigo_boy:Most people interpret "unlimited" in terms of what's average for the average person. No, most people interpret "average" in terms of what's average for the population in question, or in terms of the usage divided by the entire population.
Unlimited already is pretty well defined, and although it has more than one definition, the word "average" doesn't appear anywhere.
# A term to describe an action not defined within narrowed limits.
or
# having no limits in range or scope; "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the ...
# outright: without reservation or exception
# inexhaustible: that cannot be entirely consumed or used up; "an inexhaustible supply of coal"
or
# In the graphic arts, the term used to describe an edition with no set quantity or restriction on quantity for printing.
or
# limitless or without bounds; unrestricted
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| Sure. And the sign that says "Speed Limit: 45" is well defined too. It's legal to drive 45. Nowhere in there does it say "unless it's pouring ran, or someone's jaywalking, or a car is stalled in the road."
If I'm not sharing files and running servers, "unlimited" looks like unlimited. If I'm "average" then that's who the term is written for.
But, there will always be those who don't fall within the average population. That's why the DMV has to ask what the legal limit is (posted, or based upon conditions).
Mark |
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| your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't. Moot as it is, your analogy is wrong. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't. Moot as it is, your analogy is wrong. Plus I subscribe to movie downloads from both Amazon, AppleTV and Netflix, I'm an average user that uses a LOT of bandwidth. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
Hi.
Unlimited = no limits. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to ANON101Bseven
said by ANON101Bseven :
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't.
It's relative. The signage says there is a limit, but it's not the actual limit.
Your complaint is like the kid who did 90 on the 40 mph surface street. He claimed it wasn't posted. I.e., unlimited.
Same concept.
Mark |
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| reply to Karl Bode
Unlimited:
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
Karl says it very succinctly. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by ANON101Bseven :
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't.
It's relative. The signage says there is a limit, but it's not the actual limit. Your complaint is like the kid who did 90 on the 40 mph surface street. He claimed it wasn't posted. I.e., unlimited. Same concept. Mark In both cases there are law, rules, and regulations attached to your drivers license. In the case of the kid who claimed unlimited because it wasn't posted, guess he's never see a "Citywide Speed Limit is 35 unless otherwise posted" sign.
Besides, if it was all spelled out on the sign, you wouldn't have room left for the speed limit itself, much less time to read it. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:Unfortunately, there will always be people who say "I was driving the posted limit, it shouldn't matter if the street was congested." That is my point...by definition the fastest one is allowed to drive at any given time under optimal conditions is the posted limit...by saying the answer is "than is safe" changes the definition of the speed limit...and yes the answer can be interpreted in favor of either answer...but under no conditions can one exceed the posted speed limit. Which to me indicates that is the 'correct' answer...
Anyway, my point was these sorts of vagaries are everywhere and open to interpretation...I was also being sarcastic that these companies are no better than the DMV... 
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·magicjack.com
| reply to DustySilicon
said by DustySilicon:Unlimited: 1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket. 2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon. 3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence. Karl says it very succinctly. I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming 400 gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'"
That's why I believe the term is aimed at what the average person considers to be reasonable, and would experience. Those complaining are the outliers. There always will be outliers. Just like those who expect to get a dial tone even when the entire country picks up their handset at the same time.
Mark |
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| Hi again, it's me.
Unlimited = no limits. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by Karl Bode:Hi again, it's me. Unlimited = no limits. And 45 mph means 45 mph.
Mark |
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| You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English or adhering to fundamental logic yet, but we're making progress. Rome wasn't built in a day! We'll come back to it. On to lesson two! Lying. Spot the error in the attached screenshot for extra credit! |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by Karl Bode:You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English I'm just pointing out that, like speed limits, there is the literal interpretation and the commonly understood interpretation. It is my belief that "unlimited," to most people, means they'll never reach a limit based upon them being part of an average group with average usage patterns.
Just like 45mph means that's the limit under normal conditions.
I agree that it would shut some people up if they just printed an asterisk with footnote explaining the cap. But, I just don't think those people are anywhere near a small minority. So, there's no reason to.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming 400 gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'" That's why I believe the term is aimed at what the average person considers to be reasonable, and would experience. Those complaining are the outliers. There always will be outliers. Just like those who expect to get a dial tone even when the entire country picks up their handset at the same time. Mark 1998 - I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming FOUR gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'" |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by Karl Bode:You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English I'm just pointing out that, like speed limits, there is the literal interpretation and the commonly understood interpretation. It is my belief that "unlimited," to most people, means they'll never reach a limit based upon them being part of an average group with average usage patterns. Just like 45mph means that's the limit under normal conditions. I agree that it would shut some people up if they just printed an asterisk with footnote explaining the cap. But, I just don't think those people are anywhere near a small minority. So, there's no reason to. Mark Around here, speed limit signs say "Conditions Permitting". It still is not a good analogy. Also, we have driver ed classes and I think most people know how to read a speed limit sign. If Comcast starts holding classes on what "unlimited" really means, and how it means "average", then maybe you have an analogy.
However, you (or they) can't just change the definition of a word to make a point. The only meaning to "unlimited" is "no limits". |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by MrSpock29:... and I think most people know how to read a speed limit sign. That's my point. Most people know what "unlimited" means *within the context of their own use.* Just like speed limits imply "conditions apply," I believe providers use "unlimited" in the same sense. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I get unlimited use every month. Just like I feel no need to test whether I can really drive 45 when the street is congested with rush-hour traffic, I see no reason to test how much broadband I can use without reaching a limit. I never give it a second thought in either case.
said by MrSpock29:If Comcast starts holding classes on what "unlimited" really means, and how it means "average", They don't have to. The majority knows what it means. Or, better said, they never have a reason to question what it means because they are average.
The problem is that a minority of outliers want their predicament explained to those who don't have a predicament. It's just kvetching.
I think it would be more productive for DSLR to organize a "truth in labeling" movement. Lobby Congress to pass the equivalent of nutrition labeling for broadband. Standardized measurements and format of reporting so consumers can make better choices.
But instead, it's just how bad providers are, how bad government is, how everyone else should be unhappy like a few DSLR activists are.
There's nothing constructive in that.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:I think the cap issue is similar. Most people interpret "unlimited" in terms of what's average for the average person. Not sharing files 24x7, running servers, etc. It doesn't matter what people interpret unlimited to mean, because unlimited has a very specific definition. And interpretations are very oft wrong.
That's the problem. Unlimited has a definition that is clear. What is happening is ISPs are trying to change what unlimited is and then complain when people take it at dictionary definition, face value. That's just plain dirty pool.
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
1 edit | said by NetAdmin1:It doesn't matter what people interpret unlimited to mean, I disagree. Advertising is defined as helping people hear what they want to hear. If I target advertising to majority usage patterns (what the average person deems "reasonable"), then "unlimited" is anything above that.
Even those who are upset because they fall outside the pattern of averages would admit that there has to be limits. Nothing is ever truly "unlimited." So, what they're really complaining about is that they fall outside the average. And, what they suggest is that those who don't care should.
To me, that's not logical. It doesn't seem like it will ever lead to anything. Telling people they should be unhappy about something they have no reason to be unhappy about.
Mark |
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