funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
1 edit | reply to amigo_boy
Re: Same reason the DMV gets away with some questions...
said by amigo_boy  :Most people interpret "unlimited" in terms of what's average for the average person. No, most people interpret "average" in terms of what's average for the population in question, or in terms of the usage divided by the entire population.
Unlimited already is pretty well defined, and although it has more than one definition, the word "average" doesn't appear anywhere.
# A term to describe an action not defined within narrowed limits.
or
# having no limits in range or scope; "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the ...
# outright: without reservation or exception
# inexhaustible: that cannot be entirely consumed or used up; "an inexhaustible supply of coal"
or
# In the graphic arts, the term used to describe an edition with no set quantity or restriction on quantity for printing.
or
# limitless or without bounds; unrestricted
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by funchords :Unlimited already is pretty well defined, Sure. And the sign that says "Speed Limit: 45" is well defined too. It's legal to drive 45. Nowhere in there does it say "unless it's pouring ran, or someone's jaywalking, or a car is stalled in the road."
If I'm not sharing files and running servers, "unlimited" looks like unlimited. If I'm "average" then that's who the term is written for.
But, there will always be those who don't fall within the average population. That's why the DMV has to ask what the legal limit is (posted, or based upon conditions).
Mark |
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ANON101Bseven
@cox.net | your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't. Moot as it is, your analogy is wrong. |
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ANON101Bseven
@cox.net
| reply to amigo_boy
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't. Moot as it is, your analogy is wrong. Plus I subscribe to movie downloads from both Amazon, AppleTV and Netflix, I'm an average user that uses a LOT of bandwidth. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to amigo_boy
Hi.
Unlimited = no limits. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to ANON101Bseven
said by ANON101Bseven :
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't.
It's relative. The signage says there is a limit, but it's not the actual limit.
Your complaint is like the kid who did 90 on the 40 mph surface street. He claimed it wasn't posted. I.e., unlimited.
Same concept.
Mark |
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DustySilicon
join:2002-10-06
Oak Grove, MO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to Karl Bode
Unlimited:
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
Karl says it very succinctly. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by ANON101Bseven :
your point holds no water, if the speed limit sign said unlimited, then yes, your point would hold water, but it doesn't.
It's relative. The signage says there is a limit, but it's not the actual limit. Your complaint is like the kid who did 90 on the 40 mph surface street. He claimed it wasn't posted. I.e., unlimited. Same concept. Mark In both cases there are law, rules, and regulations attached to your drivers license. In the case of the kid who claimed unlimited because it wasn't posted, guess he's never see a "Citywide Speed Limit is 35 unless otherwise posted" sign.
Besides, if it was all spelled out on the sign, you wouldn't have room left for the speed limit itself, much less time to read it. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to DustySilicon
said by DustySilicon :Unlimited: 1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket. 2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon. 3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence. Karl says it very succinctly. I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming 400 gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'"
That's why I believe the term is aimed at what the average person considers to be reasonable, and would experience. Those complaining are the outliers. There always will be outliers. Just like those who expect to get a dial tone even when the entire country picks up their handset at the same time.
Mark |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Hi again, it's me.
Unlimited = no limits. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by Karl Bode :Hi again, it's me. Unlimited = no limits. And 45 mph means 45 mph.
Mark |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English or adhering to fundamental logic yet, but we're making progress. Rome wasn't built in a day! We'll come back to it. On to lesson two! Lying. Spot the error in the attached screenshot for extra credit! |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by Karl Bode :You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English I'm just pointing out that, like speed limits, there is the literal interpretation and the commonly understood interpretation. It is my belief that "unlimited," to most people, means they'll never reach a limit based upon them being part of an average group with average usage patterns.
Just like 45mph means that's the limit under normal conditions.
I agree that it would shut some people up if they just printed an asterisk with footnote explaining the cap. But, I just don't think those people are anywhere near a small minority. So, there's no reason to.
Mark |
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StudioTech
S2409W plus SA4250HD
join:2001-10-10
Edison, NJ
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming 400 gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'" That's why I believe the term is aimed at what the average person considers to be reasonable, and would experience. Those complaining are the outliers. There always will be outliers. Just like those who expect to get a dial tone even when the entire country picks up their handset at the same time. Mark 1998 - I believe even those arguing a literal interpretation of "unlimited" would say that someone consuming FOUR gig in a month would be ridiculous to claim "but it said 'unlimited.'" |
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MrSpock29
join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by Karl Bode :You're getting there! You're not speaking in recognizable English I'm just pointing out that, like speed limits, there is the literal interpretation and the commonly understood interpretation. It is my belief that "unlimited," to most people, means they'll never reach a limit based upon them being part of an average group with average usage patterns. Just like 45mph means that's the limit under normal conditions. I agree that it would shut some people up if they just printed an asterisk with footnote explaining the cap. But, I just don't think those people are anywhere near a small minority. So, there's no reason to. Mark Around here, speed limit signs say "Conditions Permitting". It still is not a good analogy. Also, we have driver ed classes and I think most people know how to read a speed limit sign. If Comcast starts holding classes on what "unlimited" really means, and how it means "average", then maybe you have an analogy.
However, you (or they) can't just change the definition of a word to make a point. The only meaning to "unlimited" is "no limits". |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by MrSpock29 :... and I think most people know how to read a speed limit sign. That's my point. Most people know what "unlimited" means *within the context of their own use.* Just like speed limits imply "conditions apply," I believe providers use "unlimited" in the same sense. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I get unlimited use every month. Just like I feel no need to test whether I can really drive 45 when the street is congested with rush-hour traffic, I see no reason to test how much broadband I can use without reaching a limit. I never give it a second thought in either case.
said by MrSpock29 :If Comcast starts holding classes on what "unlimited" really means, and how it means "average", They don't have to. The majority knows what it means. Or, better said, they never have a reason to question what it means because they are average.
The problem is that a minority of outliers want their predicament explained to those who don't have a predicament. It's just kvetching.
I think it would be more productive for DSLR to organize a "truth in labeling" movement. Lobby Congress to pass the equivalent of nutrition labeling for broadband. Standardized measurements and format of reporting so consumers can make better choices.
But instead, it's just how bad providers are, how bad government is, how everyone else should be unhappy like a few DSLR activists are.
There's nothing constructive in that.
Mark |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| said by amigo_boy :I think it would be more productive for DSLR to organize a "truth in labeling" movement. Lobby Congress to pass the equivalent of nutrition labeling for broadband. Standardized measurements and format of reporting so consumers can make better choices. But instead, it's just how bad providers are, how bad government is, how everyone else should be unhappy like a few DSLR activists are. There's nothing constructive in that. Mark Hey, it looks like you have no clue that unlimited = no limit and you're otherwise losing your argument. Isn't it time you trotted out the good ol' standby of yours that you have used (by my count) about 100 times or so, that magical section of the U.S. code that you interpret to mean that the federal government can spy on citizens without oversight or worrying about breaking any laws. That always seems to shut people up who disagree with you and you just go on imagining that it's because you're right. 
--
The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :Your complaint is like the kid who did 90 on the 40 mph surface street. He claimed it wasn't posted. I.e., unlimited. The flaw in your analogy is that the driver is responsible for knowing the content of the vehicle code; at least as applies to his driving. Most states are similar to California, which actually has several speed laws.
• Maximum Speed law Limit (Sect. 22349): 65 mph. unless post as 70 mph by CalTrans.
• Prima Facie Speed law Limits (Sect. 22352): No faster than is safe. 15 mph, or 25 mph, depending on conditions specified in the code.
• Basic Speed Law (Sect. 22350): 25 mph in residential areas, 15 mph in area of limited visibility. No greater than reasonable or prudent ...
No matter what, Prima Facie takes overall precedence; if it is foggy, whether the road is posted 75 mph, or not posted at all, any speed faster than that which takes you to the limit of visibility is unsafe.
There are also sections concerning the "Increase of Freeway and Local Speed Limits", one of which specifies locally established Prima Facie Speed Limits other than 15 mph and 25 mph.
If there is no posted limit, then assume Prima Facie Speed Limits; and, do not drive faster than conditions permit in any case Section 22351, titled, "Speed Law Violations", implies that the "Basic Speed Law" is taken as the overriding law.
How anything related to highway speed can be compared to "unlimited" escapes me, because the C.V.C. is pretty clear; in the absence of posted limits, there are still assumed limits. Speed is, simply put, not "unlimited".
As for Internet advertising, I have never personally seen an ISP add offering unqualified unlimited service (other than old, dated ads from the past, demonstrating that ISPs did, once, advertise so). All the actual ads I have seen in the wild have been qualified. It is not a mere game of semantics to qualify a word. And "unlimited access" != "unlimited bandwidth". My own ISP offers either "unlimited access" (for HSI) or "limited access" (for dial-up). Okay, they don't actually say, "limited access", rather they specify the actual limits in hours of connect time per month. In contrast with HSI allowing me to maintain a login session indefinitely ("unlimited access").
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to DustySilicon
said by DustySilicon :Karl says it very succinctly. He did, yes, but you did not. "Unlimted" != "unlimtited self-confidence".
"Unlimited" is an adjective, and by itself really isn't a useful word.
"Unlimited Internet", OTOH, is a useful combination, and can be assumed to imply that there are no limits to what you can get from the Internet.
"Unlimited access", is still another useful combination; but has to be taken in the context of "access to what".
You can't compose a sentence with just an adjective: What does "Mary hit the unlimited" mean?
However, the moment you apply an adjective to a noun, such as "unlimited Internet", you actually convey some meaning. |
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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | reply to major marco
I'm all for this Idea.
Broadband must be marketed as the MAXIMUM DATA PER MONTH at the MOST LIMITED protocol. Easy to compare and hard to throttle.
Problem solved  |
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