ZapperWeisma
Premium
join:2008-12-20
Long Beach, CA
1 edit |  Planning to order FiOS soon.
I plan to order Verizon FiOS in the near future for installation at my home. The uses will be gaming, torrenting and standard web-surfing, e-mail, etc. I plan to go for the 20/20 package.
I have some concerns, however.
First, I worry about what I am sure a lot of others worry about, will I be able to use my own router? I am a power user and I loathe the idea of using the router they provide, no matter how wonderful they tell me it is. I have a DLink DGL-4500 that I simply love and I worry that once I upgrade to FiOS that it will end up in a closet, collecting dust. Part 2 of this question is, how difficult is it to talk the installer into putting in Cat 5 over coaxial? Will I have to bribe him or is a simple request enough?
Part of the problem is that, given the shape and size of my home and where my office is, it's going to be a long run from where the phone line comes into the house to where the computers are. How will this complicate things?
Second, how hard on torrenting is Verizon? I have Verizon DSL now and they haven't complained but I worry going to FiOS might make them more touchy. What should I know? (i do NOT, nor does anyone in my home, download illegal music or movies! however i do download anime and other misc. things)
Third, I plan to also get a FiOS Television package. Probably the basic package. Is there anything I should know about this aspect of it? I have 4 TVs in this house that would need access. Frankly, it's the part of the whole thing I know the least about. I am getting the TV portion for the rest of the family, as I do not watch TV at all and as such, I have not looked into this part of it all that deeply.
Basically, I want to make sure I don't buy this and go "Oh crap! Wish I had known...[fill in the blank]!".
Thanks a lot. I look forward to your help! |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| If you look here »Verizon Online FiOS FAQ and scroll down to Actiontec you see a number of senarios that allow you to use your own router. I have a Linksys running and the AT fed off of it.
I've only been involved in a couple of installs but around here (PA)if you have the CAT5 cable in place from the ONT to where the Actiontec will be the tech will gladly hook it up.
Once he has the Actiontec running you're on your own.  Of course, you can get help here from the experts that put together the FAQ
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| If I understand correctly, then, we cannot even consider FiOS until we have someone run new wiring through our home, so that we have a CAT5 cable in place from the network access point in our home (the basement) to where our router would be (the loft). A coax run (which is all we need for Comcast) is not sufficient for FiOS. I didn't know that. |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| said by bicker  :If I understand correctly, then, we cannot even consider FiOS until we have someone run new wiring through our home, so that we have a CAT5 cable in place from the network access point in our home (the basement) to where our router would be (the loft). A coax run (which is all we need for Comcast) is not sufficient for FiOS. I didn't know that. If you don't want an ethernet connection to the router, the router will work off of the coax. That is standard configuration. The OP wanted to use torrents which the Actintec has trouble handling.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | I'm sorry... what do you get from having an Ethernet connection to the router? |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA | Basically it allows you to use your own router instead of the Actiontec. There are two problems that the AT router is known for, a small NAT table (not a problem if you are just a standard user) and less than stellar wireless. |
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kevinf1990
join:2003-08-02
Diamond Bar, CA | just wondering, but will the AT router be sufficient if i am just running one torrent at a time? |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| I don't know anything about "torrents" so I'm just repeating what I here. If you just run one, I would think you'd be okay. Someone with more experience chime it, please. I can say this, my son lives about 10 miles from me and uses the AT for torrents and has not complained.
The wireless problems, I've experienced first hand but there are ways around that without going to an Ethernet connection.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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kevinf1990
join:2003-08-02
Diamond Bar, CA
| said by SparkChaser The wireless problems, I've experienced first hand but there are ways around that without going to an Ethernet connection.
[/BQUOTE :can you elaborate more on this. what are the problems with wireless? is it just slow or does it have bad distance. sorry for using this topic |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| There are 2 problems that I've heard and experienced. One, is difficulty in setting up the connection and the other is distance. The best setup I've found for my situation is WPA2 and g only. The distance problem, I think, may be in the AT receiver. I get the same signal levels from the Linksys and the AT using a program called inSIIDer to measure it. The AT loses connection before the Link. That's on 2 laptops using different com chips.
It's certainly going to depend on the distance and physical barriers in your home.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | reply to SparkChaser
Wait: Without the Ethernet cable you must use your own router, or you can't use your own router? |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
 ·Bay Area Internet ..
| Did you read the FAQs that SparkChaser posted above?
Specifically, this one explains your options regarding running your own router.
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
3 edits | Yes, I have read the FAQs. Quite frankly, I find them confusing -- practically useless to me in making my decision -- and I'm a pretty technical guy. Your direct linkage has helped me find what I think is the information I'm looking for, but I'm still not really sure, and that is a big concern I've had regarding these specific FAQs.
This is not the first time I've asked a question in this forum and got the same answer. The information I'm looking for may be there, but I feel that if it is it is hidden behind poor organization and redirection. I think the FAQ needs to be rewritten in recognition that most of the audience for it is much less technical than even I am. It needs to be rewritten so that my step-sister, the potter, and my aunt, the retiree, can not only understand what it says, but also so that it is actually easy to find the answer to relevant questions and understand that that specific information is the answer to the question. That last bit is sorely lacking, AFAIC.
Thanks for asking, though -- I've been dying to get that off my chest.
To be fair, it could simply be that Verizon FiOS service is structured in a manner that what we can do, relatively easily with Comcast, is much much more difficult and complex with FiOS. If that is the case, then my concerns about the FAQs are not only justified, but I withdraw my comments saying that the FAQs need to improved -- clearly in that case, the service needs to be improved, not the FAQs.
Anyway, if I understand the FAQs properly, it sounds like setting up what I have today with Comcast will be prohibitively difficult, costly, and/or time-consuming, etc.; and/or not supported by Verizon. The more I learn about FiOS, the more is sounds like a really bad idea to switch. |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Typically, your step-sister, the potter, and your aunt, the retiree, will be fine with the default install.
The FAQs are techie because it's the techies the push the limits of the Actiontec, not the usual potter or retiree
If you run a few torrents at a time with a well configured torrent client (I use Azureus a lot) you are unlikely to run into problems. If you don't game with software that requests a game server list (e.g. STEAM) in a way that floods the connections (NAT table), then again, you will be fine with the default install.
My advice is to try out the default install and IF you run into problems, then follow the steps to switch to ethernet, bridge the Actiontec, and use your own router.
I used Comcast (in tandem with Verizon DSL) for years and have had 20/20 FiOS for almost one year now and I will never ever go back to Comcast. And I haven't needed to change from the default FiOS install. |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :Anyway, if I understand the FAQs properly, it sounds like setting up what I have today with Comcast will be prohibitively difficult, costly, and/or time-consuming, etc.; and/or not supported by Verizon. The more I learn about FiOS, the more is sounds like a really bad idea to switch. I'm not sure I see the problem. As darcilicious said, if you are a "normal" user you shouldn't have any problems. Everything gets hooked to coax. Then you connect your computer to the router via CAT5 or wireless. Nothing in my coax routing changed from Comcast to FIOS (he did change the splitter). No coax was added.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| However, from what I understand (from reading the FAQs), the ONT is like the NAT, it is installed where the line enters the home (for me, that's my basement). The router is in the loft. The "wire in the wall" from basement to loft is coax.
So ONT in basement, router in loft. I sometimes have seven devices on the network: 4 wired Ethernet connections (wireless won't do for any of them), and 3 wireless connections (2 N; 1 G). In addition, I need to support a STB in the bedroom, a SD DVR in the kitchen, and a couple of CableCARDs in a TiVo S3 in the loft (next to the router, which again, is only connected to the ONT via coax). It sounds to me that the SD DVR in the kitchen isn't possible without a lot of work. I can't just plug a DVR into coax, with no wired Ethernet access, and get program guide, right? |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
2 edits | said by bicker : It sounds to me that the SD DVR in the kitchen isn't possible without a lot of work. I can't just plug a DVR into coax, with no wired Ethernet access, and get program guide, right? All the coax connections come off a coax splitter(s); the STBs do not require any ethernet cat5, just coax, and will get guide, vod, and widgets just fine.
Edited to add: if your house is currently wired and working, then all the FiOS tech will need to is run coax to the Actiontec, which should be able to remain where your current router is.
Then edited for clarity re: ethernet vs cat5
And last but not least, our house was fully wired and working with Comcast (tv and intenret) just fine. The tech literally put the actiontec router where our comcast modem was, install the ONT/BBU, replaced our coax spliter and the set-top boxes and was done. |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
3 edits | reply to bicker
said by bicker :However, from what I understand (from reading the FAQs), the ONT is like the NAT, it is installed where the line enters the home (for me, that's my basement). The router is in the loft. The "wire in the wall" from basement to loft is coax. The standard install is just like Comcast or any other cable install. Coax to all STBS and coax to the Actiontec. The Actiontec replaces your cable modem and router. Simple. Works for the vast majority of users. Technical or not. Fully supported by VZ.
It's only when you want to replace the Actiontec with a router that does not support MOCA that it gets tricky, since you need MOCA (ethernet over coax) for the STBs and this is what that particular FAQ was meant to address. It is NOT intended for the non-technical user.
BTW, I'm assuming you mean the NID. NAT is the Network Address Translation table in the router. The ONT provides the media conversion from fiber to POTS for phone, coax for VIDEO and WAN connection. WAN connection can also be provisioned over cat5. |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to bicker
said by bicker :This is not the first time I've asked a question in this forum and got the same answer. The information I'm looking for may be there, but I feel that if it is it is hidden behind poor organization and redirection. I think the FAQ needs to be rewritten in recognition that most of the audience for it is much less technical than even I am. It needs to be rewritten so that my step-sister, the potter, and my aunt, the retiree, can not only understand what it says, but also so that it is actually easy to find the answer to relevant questions and understand that that specific information is the answer to the question. That last bit is sorely lacking, AFAIC. I saw your comment that the FAQs are not granny-friendly. I am not disagreeing. There are some that are really old and obsolete. Others might assume you know more than is spelled out.
If you have any suggestions, text changes, or whatever, feel free to IM me, or add a Pending Feedback comment to the FAQ entry, or even post a topic with a FAQ outline and ask for feedback in the forum post.
I've contributed a step-by-step that covers most of the basics of switching to ethernet and using a different router than the Actiontec. Others have worked out the bridging problem. I'm sure there are others not yet written, but they all start the same way: Frequently Asked Questions.
Let me know ( birdfeedr ), or sashwa , and we'll help improve the FAQs. This is a community volunteer effort, and we accept constructive input from everyone.
(Edit to add:) In between the other things we're doing. My current project is getting a dual-boot Windows/Ubuntu machine squared away. My goal is to do as much as possible in Linux, learning as I go. It's not easy to copy mozilla profile with a hisotry of saved emails, bookmarks etc from one Linux machine to another. Guess what? There's a forum where I can ask newbie questions, and I don't have to pretend I should know all of those answers.
It's ok to ask. |
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Mannus
Premium
join:2005-10-25
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Dish Network
 ·Vonage
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to ZapperWeisma
95+% traffic is torrent related |
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