Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21611919 en Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:59:34 EDT Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:59:34 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21618829 DooD : Firstly, you live in Chesterfield - at least that's what it says under your name. You're not that far from rural area - what 20 min? 30? If you want to take your kids camping every weekend all weekend long and run around the woods, it doesn't cost you that much - travel time or money.

Now my father on the other hand, who lives in a rural area in Texas, doesn't even have a choice for decent broadband. As for dial-up, on a good day he connects at 28.8. Cable (not even TV), DSL, not even ISDN (that option is reserved for the local school only) are options. He's about to get royally screwed by satellite for a whole 768k at over $100 a month - plus equipment rental and contract.

Point is I just don't see your comparison of cost of nature exposure vs broadband all that accurate - ie saying all they have to do is pay money for it like you have to pay money to "explain nature to" your kids.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21618829 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:01:01 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21614466 rradina : I've lost your point. Are you still claiming that running fiber optic to rural homes would not qualify for USF funds? Is the guy that wrote the article is not reporting the truth? I've yet to see how the information you've posted disputes his claim.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21614466 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:36:51 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613692 patcat88 :
said by rradina See Profile :

In all of that, where does it say that these services cannot be provided by a fiber optic network?
A carrier that receives federal universal service support shall use
that support only for the provision, maintenance, and upgrading of
facilities and services for which the support is intended.
It would be upto the FCC to enforce that rule. There is also this self certifying thing that you only use USF money on supported services. »edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/···.809.htm

Sec. 54.202 Additional requirements for Commission designation of

eligible telecommunications carriers.

* * * * *

(e) All eligible telecommunications carriers shall retain all
records required to demonstrate to auditors that the support received
was consistent with the universal service high-cost program rules. These
records should include the following: data supporting line count
filings; historical customer records; fixed asset property accounting
records; general ledgers; invoice copies for the purchase and
maintenance of equipment; maintenance contracts for the upgrade or
equipment; and any other relevant documentation. This documentation must
be maintained for at least five years from the receipt of funding.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613692 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:19:11 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613379 rradina : I'm not sure what your point is. Rural areas offer many freedoms that urban areas don't. For instance, if kids want to take a hike through the woods, they have to do things like Boy Scouts in the urban areas. In rural areas, they simply go into their back yard. Fishing? No problem in rural areas. How about a kid riding a motorcycle or four-wheeler, not a chance in urban areas. I grew up in a rural area and there are many advantages to living in the "country". That said, I now live in an urban area because of employment opportunities and, yes, things like major sports teams and high-speed Internet access.

If I want to provide my kids some of the experiences I knew as a kid, I have to take them somewhere and explain nature to them. This costs money. If rural people want high-speed Internet access, it too will cost money or may not be possible.

People choose to live in places based on their likes and dislikes. If you choose to live in a rural area, enjoy the many advantages and please stop asking for subsidies to bring things urban folk take for granted. Some things are only possible in high-density population centers. For instance -- TRAFFIC; if you are just dying for a TRAFFIC JAM in rural America, you're going to have to MOVE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613379 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:57:12 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613346 rradina : In all of that, where does it say that these services cannot be provided by a fiber optic network?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613346 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:46:18 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613326 patcat88 :
said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

Rural is where there are, yes middle class, that live in locations which barely have basic services. There is definitely no cable, pots is sloppy, and cell is a lower grade if any signal at all. People raise there children in those areas just like anyone else would except there may be more room.
And then the kids run to the cities when they turn 18 to escape a 3rd world existence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613326 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:42:22 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613314 patcat88 :
said by rradina See Profile :

From the article (who knows if it's true but...):

Border to Border got a $23 million loan (about $150,000 per line!) from the Rural Utilities Service in 2003 to install a fiber optic network. This is paid back by USF to the tune of $164 thousand per month. That’s over a thousand dollars per line per month.

said by »edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/···.101.htm :

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 3]
[Revised as of October 1, 2007]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR54.101]

[Page 102-103]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 54_UNIVERSAL SERVICE--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Services Designated for Support

Sec. 54.101 Supported services for rural, insular and high cost areas.

(a) Services designated for support. The following services or
functionalities shall be supported by federal universal service support
mechanisms:
(1) Voice grade access to the public switched network. ``Voice grade
access'' is defined as a functionality that enables a user of
telecommunications services to transmit voice communications, including
signalling the network that the caller wishes to place a call, and to
receive voice communications, including receiving a signal indicating
there is an incoming call. For the purposes of this part, bandwidth for
voice grade access should be, at a minimum, 300 to 3,000 Hertz;
(2) Local usage. ``Local usage'' means an amount of minutes of use
of exchange service, prescribed by the Commission, provided free of
charge to end users;
(3) Dual tone multi-frequency signaling or its functional
equivalent. ``Dual tone multi-frequency'' (DTMF) is a method of
signaling that facilitates the transportation of signaling through the
network, shortening call set-up time;
(4) Single-party service or its functional equivalent. ``Single-
party service'' is telecommunications service that permits users to have
exclusive use of a wireline subscriber loop or access line for each call
placed, or, in the case of wireless telecommunications carriers, which
use spectrum shared among users to provide service, a dedicated message
path for the length of a user's particular transmission;
(5) Access to emergency services. ``Access to emergency services''
includes access to services, such as 911 and enhanced 911, provided by
local governments or other public safety organizations. 911 is defined
as a service that permits a telecommunications user, by dialing the
three-digit code ``911,'' to call emergency services through a Public
Service Access Point (PSAP) operated by the local government. ``Enhanced
911'' is defined as 911 service that includes the ability to provide
automatic numbering information (ANI), which enables the PSAP to call
back if the call is disconnected, and automatic location information
(ALI), which permits emergency service providers to identify the
geographic location of the calling party. ``Access to emergency
services'' includes access to 911 and enhanced 911 services to the
extent the local government in an eligible carrier's service area has
implemented 911 or enhanced 911 systems;
(6) Access to operator services. ``Access to operator services'' is
defined as access to any automatic or live assistance to a consumer to
arrange for billing or completion, or both, of a telephone call;
(7) Access to interexchange service. ``Access to interexchange
service'' is defined as the use of the loop, as well as that portion of
the switch that is paid for by the end user, or the functional
equivalent of these network elements in the case of a wireless carrier,
necessary to access an interexchange carrier's network;
(8) Access to directory assistance. ``Access to directory
assistance'' is defined as access to a service that includes, but is not
limited to, making available to customers, upon request, information
contained in directory listings; and
(9) Toll limitation for qualifying low-income consumers. Toll
limitation for qualifying low-income consumers is described in subpart E
of this part.
(b) Requirement to offer all designated services. An eligible
telecommunications carrier must offer each of the services set forth in
paragraph (a) of this section in order to receive federal universal
service support.
said by »edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/···54.7.htm :

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 3]
[Revised as of October 1, 2007]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR54.7]

[Page 102]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 54_UNIVERSAL SERVICE--Table of Contents

Subpart A_General Information

Sec. 54.7 Intended use of federal universal service support.

A carrier that receives federal universal service support shall use
that support only for the provision, maintenance, and upgrading of
facilities and services for which the support is intended.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21613314 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:39:08 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612765 keyboard5684 : In many rural areas, like where I live, there is no cell coverage. I guess I do not see it. Maybe what others consider rural (where there are stop signs instead of street light) is different?

Rural is where there are, yes middle class, that live in locations which barely have basic services. There is definitely no cable, pots is sloppy, and cell is a lower grade if any signal at all. People raise there children in those areas just like anyone else would except there may be more room.

So in rural areas I disagree. The primary means in rural areas is indeed pots since there is no cell coverage but there is pots coverage everywhere due to USF.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612765 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:14:24 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612669 pnh102 :
said by MAR_03_2002 See Profile :

As the article points out - these ultra rural areas used to have wireless telephone access at much cheaper costs. But since the USF doesn't subsidize wireless access, companies sprang up to suck down USF fees to wire these areas best served by wireless solutions.
Good point. In many out-of-the-way places outside of the USA, the primary means of communication is cell phone with no landline options available. I don't see why we could not do something like that here.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612669 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:49:31 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612649 voipdabbler : LOL, a pipe dream. The US can't even deliver cellular service to most rural areas. Nationwide, we probably have one of the worst cellular penetration rates of the developed world. We have less than a 50% penetration rate in the Rural Service Areas--the feds don't even like publishing data that shows just how poorly they've managed cellular licensing. The last data they were willing to publish, only 150 of the 428 Rural Service Areas had any type of cellular service. The problem, the feds auction spectrum and issue licenses to carriers in these areas but then don't police; as a result, you've got major carriers who own licenses for rural spectrum and they only erect towers for roaming by customers in urban markets but offer no local services. Having the license, they can also block the efforts of rural communities to get a carrier in to their area for real local service. It's about time the USF be disbanded. There's certainly no money coming to rural ares. It's all going into the deep pockets of large, greedy companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612649 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:46:17 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612046 MAR_03_2002 :
said by rradina See Profile :

Amazing what USF is funding. Fiber to rural homes! Who would have guessed. I'm sure these are exceptions but if it smells like Illinois politics, it probably is.

And watch out when they apply it to high speed Internet!
As the article points out - these ultra rural areas used to have wireless telephone access at much cheaper costs. But since the USF doesn't subsidize wireless access, companies sprang up to suck down USF fees to wire these areas best served by wireless solutions.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21612046 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:04:19 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611950 Karl Bode : I believe the USF's e-rate system funds some broadband, but only for schools?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611950 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:39:26 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611945 rradina : From the article (who knows if it's true but...):

Border to Border got a $23 million loan (about $150,000 per line!) from the Rural Utilities Service in 2003 to install a fiber optic network. This is paid back by USF to the tune of $164 thousand per month. That’s over a thousand dollars per line per month.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611945 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:37:57 EDT Re: Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611919 patcat88 : The USDA funds all the rural Fiber, not the USF. USF can not be used for anything except pots.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611919 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:30:53 EDT Move to a rural area; get fiber! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611905 rradina : Amazing what USF is funding. Fiber to rural homes! Who would have guessed. I'm sure these are exceptions but if it smells like Illinois politics, it probably is.

And watch out when they apply it to high speed Internet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21611905 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:26:41 EDT