white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR
| [Tech Ops] Mobile Mesh Network
I would like to set up a mobile mesh network for my fleet of 12 vans but have not been able to find much information on range and how it relates to the location of nodes. For the most part the fleet operates within a radius of 5-15 miles from the office in areas ranging from rural to small town urban. There are also occasions where nodes are parked at the office or two may be at the same location. Would this even be possible or would I need some stationary nodes? |
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AMD Phreak
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| It has been my experience that a seamless mesh network for mobile clients cannot be accomplished without a large number of mesh access points. You can easily create a slew of hotspots which are tied together via your own high capacity backbone.
some options are various mesh systems like motomesh or tropos or you can build a system using 900mhz alvarion breezeaccess. the alvarion option might give you the possibility of a bit more coverave with less base stations but it is hard to say without some engineering.
No matter what mesh system you choose you should look into a system that allows your clients applications to roam from base station to base station. this usually involves a special gateway and some special software which helps trick the application into thinking it is still connected to the network. Not choosing this option wont allow your clients to seamlessly roam.
You should expect to pay a large sum of money for whatever system you choose. I do not think you can deploy a system like this for a few thousand dollars. Pre engineering costs for a network of similar square miles that i did were around $6000 if i remember correctly. |
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petecarlson
join:2004-11-06
Baltimore, MD
| reply to white8
This will not be cheap but it is possible. You will need fixed nodes. Before you go down this road, answer a few questions about what you want to accomplish.
1) Why do you want to do this?
2) How much data do you need to move?
3) How reliable does the service need to be?
4) What other options are there? HSPDA, EDGE, etc. |
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white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR
| reply to white8
1) I would like to do this to be able to transmit work orders to my people in the field, track their position, allow them to receive emails and allow people working on home automation and theater systems access to the internet for tech support and downloads.
2) Most of the time it would be pretty minimal except when downloading software.
3) Fairly reliable with the understanding that is someone is out of range, he's out of range
4) I've looked at the various cell modems and the prospect of $50/month *12 people is a little expensive
Something else that came to mind, and I'm dating myself here, back in the day we had two way radios that utilized a couple of area repeaters and they covered the entire area. Is it possible to use such as system for data if any still exist? |
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kf6ytc
join:2002-03-26
Turlock, CA
| What you want to do isn't possible without fixed mesh nodes, so figure on 20+ leases with the local city for power poles, maybe $200/pole? = $4000.00 a month... your also looking at a $100k+ build out cost, so your ROI over a cellular solution at $50/month would be never. |
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kf6ytc
join:2002-03-26
Turlock, CA
| reply to white8
said by white8  :1) Something else that came to mind, and I'm dating myself here, back in the day we had two way radios that utilized a couple of area repeaters and they covered the entire area. Is it possible to use such as system for data if any still exist? nothing is currently available that will do that. on the amateur radio side there is icom d-star in the 1.2ghz range, but this is strictly for non-commercial use (and each of your employee's would have to hold a license). |
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petecarlson
join:2004-11-06
Baltimore, MD
| reply to white8
The cost is going to have a lot to do with the terrain and noise where you are operating. It may just make more sense to find a cheaper cell provider unless you can find something else to do with the network or someone else to help split the cost. If it is a big flat area with your main office at a high point in the center then you might be able to get away with a sector array in the center and omni antennas on the trucks but 15 miles is a long way to go to an omni unless we are talking about a real nice noise floor.
If I had to build a network like this, I would use Wave Relay gear. (Disclaimer: I don't work for Wave Relay but have worked with them on projects in the past.) You are looking at something in the range of $1500 - $2500 per node depending on the number of radios per node. Lets say 1500 for each van and 2500 for the fixed node. Your looking at $20,500 for just the radios without any antennas, mounts, etc. Lets say $30K installed which is about 50 months at $50 per month per van. Possible but the ROI is a bit long and this is a best case number as far as terrain goes. Most likely you will need multiple fixed nodes and your cost is going to be higher.
If you can find some other sponsors to make the thing work then the cost will begin to make more sense and the network will be more robust as there will be more nodes in the network at any given time. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to white8
I think that a "stationary repeater" (to use a term you are familiar with) would be better than a mesh system for your needs.
I am actually familiar with your area...!
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A is A |
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Get Wireless
join:2007-07-31
| reply to white8
said by white8 :1) 4) I've looked at the various cell modems and the prospect of $50/month *12 people is a little expensive Why not purchase 1 ATT plan @ $50 a month, you get that modem free and purchase 11 more modems @ $249.99. In 4 1/2 months your modems are paid for and now all you have is a $50.00 a month plan. I have 2 modems on one plan so I would check and see if they have a limit. |
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white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR | reply to John Galt
An idea how many I would need to cover the Albany area? |
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white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR | reply to Get Wireless
I'll have to take a look at that. I assumed that they would require individual accounts for each modem. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | reply to white8
Half a dozen if you could get some good height.
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A is A |
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white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR | Are we talking pole height or building height? I could probably talk some of the contractor I work with into an antenna on their roofs. |
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to white8
said by white8 :I've looked at the various cell modems and the prospect of $50/month *12 people is a little expensive You could encourage one of these super-rich cellular operators to invest $100M and offer a $10/month mobile Wimax network for your benefit. 
Seriously though I think there are much cheaper data-only plans in most cities. You have to ask the local "machine-to-machine" communication experts.
BTW fleet operators world-wide use 2-way LEO satellite service like Iridium SBD or Orbcomm for similar requirements. But obviously internet browsing and software downloading is out of the question when you pay per byte. |
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EMC_guy
join:2007-10-13
Sharbot Lake, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
1 edit | reply to white8
said by white8 :1)Something else that came to mind, and I'm dating myself here, back in the day we had two way radios that utilized a couple of area repeaters and they covered the entire area. Is it possible to use such as system for data if any still exist? Be aware that industrial VHF modems are available and will provide you city-wide coverage if you have dedicated frequency license. First one from Google search: »www.industrial-grade-modem.com/W···dems.htm |
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kf6ytc
join:2002-03-26
Turlock, CA
| 38k speeds, i doubt he's gonna be able to do what he wants with that.
said by EMC_guy :said by white8 :1)Something else that came to mind, and I'm dating myself here, back in the day we had two way radios that utilized a couple of area repeaters and they covered the entire area. Is it possible to use such as system for data if any still exist? Be aware that industrial VHF modems are available and will provide you city-wide coverage if you have dedicated frequency license. First one from Google search: » www.industrial-grade-modem.com/W···dems.htm |
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petecarlson
join:2004-11-06
Baltimore, MD
| reply to white8
Boost mobile has an unlimited data plan where you pay something like $10 per month per phone. The phones are junk but your just going to hack on an antenna port and tether the phone to a laptop or something in the van. We have one built into the plastic window frame on our van that we use for tracking the van along with a tracking service. We don't have anything tethered to it but it wouldn't be too hard. |
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EMC_guy
join:2007-10-13
Sharbot Lake, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to kf6ytc
said by kf6ytc :38k speeds, i doubt he's gonna be able to do what he wants with that. And that is only under exceptionally good RF environment! Millions of urban VHF/UHF modem users are coping with just 9600 baud link - it is a matter of scaling down the application based on reality. |
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white8
join:2008-12-21
Salem, OR | reply to petecarlson
Thanks,
I'll take a look at them. |
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petecarlson
join:2004-11-06
Baltimore, MD | reply to white8
see »www.accutracking.com/
Then tether the phone.
Make sure that service is available in your area. |
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