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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

reply to nasadude

Re: Do nothing Congress

said by nasadude:

got any links or citations to back up that claim about taxing the rich not raising revenue? that statement appears ludicrous on it's face.
You do know that the Great Depression did not end until we got into World War 2, right? Just as a refresher on your history, that did not happen until the end of 1941. If FDR's programs had worked, the Depression would have ended far sooner than that.
said by nasadude:

Obviously, Bush's tax cuts were great for the economy as we can see by the wonderful prosperity and happiness all around us today.
So there was no economic growth at all under the Bush regime? Recessions happen. They are a part of the business cycle. Had Bush not taken the course of action he took in 2001, but instead followed the model of Herbert Hoover and FDR, we'd still be in a Depression to this day.
said by nasadude:

with regard to your comments on FDR's policies, you are doing nothing more than parroting right wing talking points.
Which happen to be 100% true. Go back and read up on your history if you are still not convinced.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

nasadude

join:2001-10-05
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1 edit

said by pnh102:

Which happen to be 100% true. Go back and read up on your history if you are still not convinced.
I would direct your attention to this site:

»www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/c···ion.html

(bold added by me)

1929

* Herbert Hoover becomes President.

* Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash.

* Stock market crash begins October 24.

1930

* By February, the Federal Reserve has cut the prime interest rate from 6 to 4 percent. Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon announces that the Fed will stand by as the market works itself out: 'Liquidate labor, liquidate real estate... values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wreck from less-competent people'.

* The GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent.

1931

* No major legislation is passed addressing the Depression.

* The GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9 percent.

1932

* This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression. For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6 percent.

* Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.

* Popular opinion considers Hoover's measures too little too late. Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election. Democrats win control of Congress.

1933

* Roosevelt inaugurated; begins 'First 100 Days'; of intensive legislative activity.

* Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government modelled after Mussolini's regime in Italy. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress.

* Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is concerned with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.

* The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.

1934

* The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.

1935

* Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration.

* Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act.

* Economic recovery continues

1936

* Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.

* Economic recovery continues

1937

* Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession.

1938

* No major New Deal legislation is passed after this date, due to Roosevelt's weakened political power.

* The year-long recession makes itself felt: the GNP falls 4.5 percent, and unemployment rises to 19.0 percent.

1939

* The United States will begin emerging from the Depression as it borrows and spends $1 billion to build its armed forces. From 1939 to 1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, U.S. manufacturing will have shot up a phenomenal 50 percent!

* The Depression is ending worldwide as nations prepare for the coming hostilities.

Roosevelt began relatively modest deficit spending that arrested the slide of the economy and resulted in some astonishing growth numbers. (Roosevelt's average growth of 5.2 percent during the Great Depression is even higher than Reagan's 3.7 percent growth during his so-called 'Seven Fat Years!') When 1936 saw a phenomenal record of 14 percent growth, Roosevelt eased back on the deficit spending, worried about balancing the budget. But this only caused the economy to slip back into a recession in 1938.

forgot to include:

1945

* The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time, America will experience the greatest economic boom it had ever known until that time.


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reply to pnh102

said by pnh102:

You do know that the Great Depression did not end until we got into World War 2, right? Just as a refresher on your history, that did not happen until the end of 1941. If FDR's programs had worked, the Depression would have ended far sooner than that.
You keep repeating that as though it's that simple -- that what Roosevelt did failed. That's not the case. His programs kept millions employed and others from losing their homes and farms, something Hoover did not see fit to do. I'm assuming you know that, but that some readers may not.

»topics.nytimes.com/topics/refere···dex.html

President Herbert Hoover, a Republican and former Commerce secretary, believed the government should monitor the economy and encourage counter-cyclical spending to ease downturns, but not directly intervene. As the jobless population grew, he resisted calls from Congress, governors, and mayors to combat unemployment by financing public service jobs. He encouraged the creation of such jobs, but said it was up to state and local governments to pay for them. He also believed that relieving the suffering of the unemployed was solely up to local governments and private charities.

By 1932 the unemployment rate had soared past 20 percent. Thousands of banks and businesses had failed. Millions were homeless.
Roosevelt later created a large-scale temporary jobs program during the winter of 1933–34. The Civil Works Administration employed more than four million men and women at jobs from building and repairing roads and bridges, parks, playgrounds and public buildings to creating art. Unemployment, however, persisted at high levels. That led the administration to create a permanent jobs program, the Works Progress Administration. The W.P.A. began in 1935 and would last until 1943, employing 8.5 million people and spending $11 billion as it transformed the national infrastructure, made clothing for the poor, and created landmark programs in art, music, theater and writing.
Roosevelt’s efforts to assert government control over the economy were frustrated by Supreme Court rulings that overturned key pieces of legislation. In response, Roosevelt made the misstep of trying to “pack” the Supreme Court with additional justices. Congress rejected this 1937 proposal and turned against further New Deal measures, but not before the Social Security Act creating old-age pensions went into effect.

Brightening economic prospects were dashed in 1937 by a deep recession that lasted from that fall through most of 1938. The new downturn rolled back gains in industrial production and employment, prolonged the Depression and caused Roosevelt to increase the work relief rolls of the W.P.A. to their highest level ever.
The reason Rooselvelt's efforts are denounced is because some people think government-created jobs are a worse evil than enduring the Great Depression.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

reply to nasadude
And again, you confirm that it was indeed our entering World War 2 that ended the Depression. None of FDR's programs, by what you wrote, did anything to end it. In fact, you show that his tax hikes actually made things worse by the late 1930s. You also conveniently forget to mention that FDR did nothing to repeal the isolationist foreign trade policies enacted by his predecessor.

And calling 19% unemployment a "recession" colors the truth just a bit, doesn't it.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!


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