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Links: ·AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ ·AT&T Southeast Support ·AT&T Southeast Newsgroup Support ·AT&T Southeast Speed Test
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HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

[Availability] DSL or Cable?

I am sick of being in part of the area where I have no other option than Comcast HSI (former AT&T) which is rated here 8mbps/768kbps and AT&T SE-HSI (former BellSouth). As I have ADSL 6.0 Extreme (6mbps/512kbps) which has laughable pathetic upload speed as I am synched at 508Kbits/sec (430kbps=53kB/s). Now I am not in area of Verzion FiOS, Comcast Docsis 3.0 or AT&T's U-Verse.

Now I can careless about the download speed as I download less than 25GB/month BUT I do care about the upload speed as 97% of my bandwidth is consumed by pure upload. I am talking about capping 130+ GB/month on upload so far UL quota of 1.835 TB. Now I am not looking in to wasting my time in T based carriers as its waste of time and money for pathetic speed.

My question is am I better of paying money to Comcast even they have better upload speed than the Death Star. I doubt ill cap the 250GB but if I do get the speed I am sure I can cap it within timely manner. So cancel DSL and get cable? I would like thoughts from this forum's users.

PS: AT&T's pathetic attempt at slow U-Verse will fail, Comcasts pathetic attempt at Docsis 3.0 with 250GB/month cap is retarded. Verzion FiOS ftw if it was available in my area I wouldn't mind paying $100-150/month for the 20/20 tier even.

w4ncr

join:2000-10-27

OH yes 20/20 tier Verizon FiOS Only $69.95 HAPPY NEW YEAR .


Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
kudos:1

reply to HKM
Just how much data would you like to be uploading each month?
--
Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.



HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

reply to HKM
I want to be able to upload 95-97% of UL bandwidth that is offered under that tier. But the problem is even if I do get Comcast HSI and I get 2mbps upload which will cap the 250gb/month limit as ill hit around 650+gb/month.

This is why I want Vz-FiOS which is unlimited far as I know. But I can live with Comcast 768kbps which is not much but still better than 512kbps.

PS: I have the network and the content but I don't have the means of transporting it atm as I am hosting it inside my home.



Shadow01
Premium
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland

reply to HKM
You should just move.



HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

reply to HKM
I have thought about that many times but thats not an option. I am sure within end of this month ill dump the ADSL and get Comcast HSI but I still need to do some homework on the area and how stable (uptime, connection) and the price.

Now BellSouths adsl is stable as I rarely get disconnected as I am always on. Only time I do get disconnected is when they doing some work. When I compare that to Comcast HSI I never had it in this area so I can't say this is why I came to this forum maybe its user's would have some clue on that subject. Also how low will upload go if everyone is on? For example if I designate my server specific bandwidth limit it has to deliver on that. How low will 768kbps go if its in rush hour? Here on ADSL I fixed it to 50kB/s 24/7 none stop with 0 downtime as my FS is routed and SANed.

PS: This "HAS" to be hosted on residential line as in biz I am sure ill get shutdown within few hours as I hog majority of the bandwidth.



NetFixer
Freedom is NOT free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The 'Boro
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

reply to HKM
Since you absolutely refuse to consider a T-1, and your service "HAS" to be hosted on residential line, you really don't have many options available.

I can't speak for the Comcast service in Fort Lauderdale, FL but around here Comcast and reliable are not mentioned in the same sentence very often (Comcast commercials don't count).

Since you also are somewhat tight lipped about what you do with your upstream bandwidth, perhaps my own solution will not work for you. What I use is two AT&T DSL Direct Xtreme 3.0 circuits and a Linksys RV082 dual WAN router (I would use 6.0 circuits, but that is not available in my location). This provides me with enough upstream and downstream bandwidth to host public facing email and web servers, and also two VoIP lines.

Here is a simplified diagram of my network, and also a Speakeasy speed test that I just did to show that the two circuits are effectively combined.





--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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rahlquist
Redeye

join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA
Reviews:
·Charter

said by NetFixer:

This provides me with enough upstream and downstream bandwidth to host public facing email and web servers, and also two VoIP lines.
Hmmm not trying to start any trouble, a few questions.

Is this dual 3.0 residential or business circuits? If res, are the servers now acceptable under AT&T that weren't ok under BellSouth? Can one PC effectively use the whole bandwidth for a single application? What I'm curious about is a situation where;

A single PC, running VPN to a remote location, would that machine be able to use the whole bandwidth of the aggregated connection? From your diagram it doesnt appear to be truly aggregated? The reason I say this is you have equipment connected to the D-Link DSS-5+ switches prior to what appears to be your Linksys RV082 aggregator?
--
Fed Up With Stupidity?

Patentlystupid.com


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The 'Boro
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

2 edits

said by rahlquist:

Is this dual 3.0 residential or business circuits? If res, are the servers now acceptable under AT&T that weren't ok under BellSouth?
I am currently using residential accounts. The current AT&T TOS/AUP does not explicitly prohibit servers. I originally did this because AT&T did not offer DSL Direct circuits to small businesses. Now that they seem to do so, if I should experience any unsolvable problems due to using a residential account, I can easily change.

The only de facto prohibition is for SMTP servers since AT&T SE blocks off-network port 25 connections (both inbound and outbound) for residential accounts. I use the old BellSouth SMTP servers as a smart host for outbound SMTP. I use DNS settings which channel incoming SMTP traffic to specific att.net and/or bellsouth.net mailboxes which are then polled by my in-house email server. I did the same thing even when I used a Covad business account to run my email server. This is because it allows me to use my ISP's bandwidth for the majority of the incoming spam filtering, and because certain large email services who routinely block email originating from small business servers, do not do so if the mail appears to originate from a major ISP email server (who could retaliate by blocking their mail).

said by rahlquist:

Can one PC effectively use the whole bandwidth for a single application? What I'm curious about is a situation where;

A single PC, running VPN to a remote location, would that machine be able to use the whole bandwidth of the aggregated connection?
SSL and VPN sessions (inbound or outbound) do not work very well using load balancing * between multiple IP addresses. I use rules in my router to insure that those sessions use only one WAN connection in order to eliminate the problems.

said by rahlquist:

From your diagram it doesnt appear to be truly aggregated? The reason I say this is you have equipment connected to the D-Link DSS-5+ switches prior to what appears to be your Linksys RV082 aggregator?
The D-Link switches (and the secondary routers) are only there for backdoor maintenance access to my DSL modems (which operate in RFC1483 bridge mode and would otherwise be unaccessible). Operationally, I use the TRENDnet WiFi router as strictly a Wireless Access Point, and the Zonet router/print server is used only as a print server. The WAN interfaces of both of those devices is only used for IP connectivity to the Netopia modems (although a side benefit is that a simple quick configuration change could allow those two secondary routers to take over in the event that my Linksys RV082 should suddenly go belly up).

* The RV082 is not really an aggregator, it is a load balancer. The difference is that an aggregator would combine both circuits into a single circuit path, and load balancing simply spreads the load equally between the two circuit paths. Aggregating multiple PPP sessions requires the ISP to support multi-link PPP, which AT&T does not support for ADSL (many years ago I did do multi-link PPP using AT&T ISDN connections). This load balancing can appear to an application to be an aggregation if the application can support multiple threads and multiple sessions. This is the primary reason that SSL and VPN sessions do not work well over a load balanced connection.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
»portscan.dcs-net.net
»nature-pics.com

NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
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reply to HKM
Just some observations:

Comcast is not formerly "AT&T", it is formerly "ATTBI". The latter was spun off by the former, after AT&T bought TCI (in my area), and took part in the "@Home" disaster (along with Comcast, Cox, and some others). And, in truth, Comcast existed before ATTBI, and bought ATTBI.

Comcast has 250 GB caps across all tiers. AT&T is testing caps, and will probably introduce them later this year. Based on what I have seen proposed for the former SBC tiers, something like this:

• .768 mb/s = 20 GB per month

• 1.5 mb/s = 40 GB per month

• 3.0 mb/s = 60 GB per month

• 6.0 mb/s = 80 GB per month

• Uverse = 150 GB per month

The Uverse caps are across all Uverse speed tiers.

If T1 is not an option, and moving to Verizon territory is not an option, than Comcast is really all that is left. Higher cap, faster speed.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



rahlquist
Redeye

join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA

reply to NetFixer
Netfixer,

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation.



HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

reply to NetFixer
@NetFixer
I wouldn't waste time on T based carrier for that little speed based on that money. Far as duel line goes it wouldn't be fully operational in this case as it would have more than one addresses and it would only complicate the matter and invalid the secure session between the two party which is already being routed in a complex niche. This would only work if they did offered 2x/4x bonded pair with same address thus multiplying the current bandwidth.

At this time every 1sec I receive 6-7 UDP/10-32 tcp unsolicited callbacks. Not counting the data that is constantly being routed and filtered based on the current rules which is encrypted and has personal rules based on the user. My network is capable of broadcasting and connecting to over 1200-1300 hosts which is always on secure channel.

There is a very good reason for me being so secretive about where my upload bandwidth is going. I have in the past routed traffic via DS line with 54mbps link but soon after many of them accounts were terminated by the admin after they seen the excessive bandwidth usage.

PS: Make 0 mistake that security is top priority here when it comes to transmitting data via secure channel. As their outdated SPI/DPI switches wouldn't able to decrypt the data let alone read the data payload seg. Far as QoS goes my data is OSFed and is being masked with another URI scheme that ISP wouldn't dare delaying lol. Best my ISP can do is suspend or terminate my account for excessive bandwidth usage.



HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

reply to NormanS
@NormanS

Just some observations based on your misunderstanding.

Now when I was referring to "former AT&T" I was talking about Comcast purchasing AT&T network base in Florida in late 2000-2002 which include cable and HSI. Now if you read carefully this is not topic about CAP but it is related as I am thinking about switching the service thus its does reflect it. But this is more about price and availability as right now I am under monopolized plan which is now run by the Death Star, this is why competition is always good.

Upload scheme: (50kB/s)*(60sec)*(1440/min)=4320000kB/s > 4218.75MB > (4.12GB) * (31/days) = 127.7GB/month

PS: Don't make the mistake of offered bandwidth with actual line sync and the rate its capped at. Even if comcast does offer lowest speed in my area (zipcode: 33313) at 768kbps that would still be better but I have to do some research when I have time and the customer rating, actual ul/dl based on peak hour and mid hours. So who shall win? Comcast or AT&T (lesser of 2 evil), they both suck and ruined US market on HSI as they fear bandwidth no wonder why are so low ranked compared to other people who is getting 100x more for less than what we pay and they have fiber...



NetFixer
Freedom is NOT free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The 'Boro
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

reply to HKM

said by HKM:

Make 0 mistake that security is top priority here when it comes to transmitting data via secure channel. As their outdated SPI/DPI switches wouldn't able to decrypt the data let alone read the data payload seg. Far as QoS goes my data is OSFed and is being masked with another URI scheme that ISP wouldn't dare delaying lol. Best my ISP can do is suspend or terminate my account for excessive bandwidth usage.
It sounds as if bandwidth and/or caps are the least of your problems. Considering AT&T's relationship with the NSA, I would suggest that you switch to Comcast ASAP.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
»portscan.dcs-net.net
»nature-pics.com


HKM

join:2008-12-31
Fort Lauderdale, FL

reply to HKM
NSA is harmless and there is a reason why I "MUST" host under residential line which I won't go in detail as its part of masking.

Second I seriously doubt NSA even with Parallel/Quantum based systems can decipher the data I am transmitting as its close to military grade 2 encryption. Keep in mind I am not talking about laughable FIPs approved XTS chipper AES-256 (14 rounds 256-bit key with 128-bit block). lol my hash algorithm alone is 512-bit and the fb-3x encryption ranges from 1024-4096 bit key length which would take billions of years with the current world computation to decipher. That is IF they can verify the scheme which is OSFed alone at 168bit and data under packet payload is pieced together and synchronized to a output which will be invalid as it changes every 60sec and the data of the file stream is encrypted and masked.

PS: I do nothing illegal :P but I do take security very serious as a SNS-Admin. I dabble in the art of cryptography and stenography.


NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

reply to HKM

said by HKM:

@NormanS

Just some observations based on your misunderstanding.

Now when I was referring to "former AT&T" I was talking about Comcast purchasing AT&T network base in Florida in late 2000-2002 which include cable and HSI.
As stated in your post, "... Comcast HSI (former AT&T) ...". The syntax tells me the same thing as, "... AT&T (former SBC) ...". One of those statements is true, the other is not.
Now if you read carefully this is not topic about CAP but it is related as I am thinking about switching the service thus its does reflect it. But this is more about price and availability as right now I am under monopolized plan which is now run by the Death Star, this is why competition is always good.

Upload scheme: (50kB/s)*(60sec)*(1440/min)=4320000kB/s > 4218.75MB > (4.12GB) * (31/days) = 127.7GB/month
The prices offered by AT&T Southeast don't appear to be different than those offered by precursor, Bellsouth. Last time I checked, the only thing which changed vis a vis "Monopoly", is the name of the Monopolist. Bellsouth is now AT&T.
PS: Don't make the mistake of offered bandwidth with actual line sync and the rate its capped at. Even if comcast does offer lowest speed in my area (zipcode: 33313) at 768kbps that would still be better but I have to do some research when I have time and the customer rating, actual ul/dl based on peak hour and mid hours. So who shall win? Comcast or AT&T (lesser of 2 evil), they both suck and ruined US market on HSI as they fear bandwidth no wonder why are so low ranked compared to other people who is getting 100x more for less than what we pay and they have fiber...
Outside of Verizon, AT&T probably has the most FTTP out there (and Bellsouth probably had deployed more than SBC). Cable companies are betting the farm on DOCSIS 3.0, not FTTP.

There is no technical reason why DSL should be sold at "synch less overhead"; some areas of Verizon (and, I think, Embarq) "oversynch". I don't know why SBC chose not to "oversynch"; but it is a point of contention amongst former Ameritech subscribers (SBC bought Ameritech long before they bought AT&T, and, as AT&T, bought Bellsouth).

Bandwidth cap should be a consideration, considering that Comcast is far more generous than AT&T, despite evidence that AT&T can support higher caps than Comcast.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

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