Topic 'Re: well...' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669699 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:21:31 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:21:31 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21673845
I'm guessing you have a lot of your own equipment and time in your "cheap" phone service. Most "joe consumers" as you named them, will have no idea how to install configure or fix it if something goes wrong.

You are being completely unrealistic trying to say "Joe Consumer" wants or has the capability to jump through the tech hoops you are willing to in order to save a few bucks.

BTW, do you have any children? I highly doubt it if your phone bills are so low.

Your ideals and pricing ideals are unrealistic IMHO for the average person/family.

said by priller:

said by fiberguy:

said by priller:

Unfortunately, the cable co's have managed to convince the general public that their $40/month service is actually a great deal! Unbelievable. Of course, Joe Consumer has no clue that it's VoIP .... it's "digital voice", right? :D
How old are you? Can't be that old to be honest. You've probably never seen a $50 to $250 phone bill in your life, huh?

Personal attacks, real nice.

If you must know, I'm over 50 and have paid those prices. That's why I would never pay the excessive cost of CDV. I only use PAYG VoIP providers. I can't remember when my monthly phone bill has been over $10.

VoIP.ms
Callcentric
VoIPVoIP
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21673845 Sat, 03 Jan 2009 06:45:53 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21672828 said by hottboiinnc:

What is your many cable providers? And how many actually announce that they offer them? But why should they when they're making the $$$. You made the initial claim.. so who offers regional plans? Since Comcast is the largest, and offers a regional plan in a very small amount of systems... TWC is the second largest and offers them in limited systems as well.. I don't think I need to go further.

And mobile to mobile calling is great on cell phones if you talk to a large group of people that have the same carrier. Why pay extra in minutes to talk to someone else with the same company.
In-calling is nice, however, I buy my plans for my needs and not because others are on the same network. Besides, I'm loyal to myself as you are to you and others are to themselves. Are you going to stay with your provider that you decide no longer meets your needs simply becuase your friends are on the same network? Not really.. you're going to go where it's best for you. This is why In-calling is not effective.. it's just marketing. MCI started this with Friends and Family plans back in the 80/90's.. it didn't do TOO well for them.

I think you find fault with almost every comment that is posted on here.
I think you need to be realistic. I don't need to explain my posting habits to you, however, your post, right now, is out of the TOS. Aren't you supposed to stick with the topic and not the user? I don't think I need to come to a this site and post only with people I agree.. for that, I use the thumbs up, usually. Besides, the majority of people are here to bitch, in my view. I think many people have lost their ways anyway.. but I digress. Based on the number of posts, and if I found fault with almost every comment posted here, I'd have to quit my job and spend full time doing this.. so I think your comment is way over exaggerate and self serving to distract.

I DID, however, if you read, told you that maybe I don't understand what you're saying here - that's your cue to expand. Sorry that you were looking for a reason to act like so many others and attack. And, you can say the same to me, however, going back years, I stopped letting people attack me and decided to strike back.. The short term memory on this site doesn't amuse me, sorry about that. People here are generally angry - that's there problem. Their own anger clouds their ability to think clear - again, not my problem.

And DSL could have stayed at $14.95 why ATT doesn't pay much for their transit when their the upstream provider past the DSLAM they don't have to pay to expand like other ISPs or pay wholesale.
And your final mistake. It's not all about transit.. there are other costs that are associated with DSL. It's already been showed that they under priced that service - they even admitted it. The entire idea behind dropping the price was to gain customers from dial-up, cable service, and keep existing customers (when they were able to get that price) just long enough to get U-verse on line. As they said, and I'll quote, "it's easier to market and up-sell a current customer than it is to get a new one".. So, sorry to tell you, no, they could not keep $14.99 DSL going which is why they raised the price.. Sorry.

Also, if you'll recall, it was shortly after they started the $14 DSL prices that Mr. Ed of SBC started crying about companies like google, amazon, and netflix "using my pipes to make money off my back".. and the whole charge to get a 3rd line of revenue began. Don't you think for any moment that they were panicking becuase cable was starting to hurt their market? The $14 DSL was a gamble move to sustain their customer base and growth long enough to get to the next level.

Sorry, I just don't agree with you, AND, in many public discussions, there is a level of debate and disagreement. I'm not going to seek out people I agree with and say "hey, I agree with that!" .. People disagree.. that's life.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21672828 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:19:41 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21672208
And mobile to mobile calling is great on cell phones if you talk to a large group of people that have the same carrier. Why pay extra in minutes to talk to someone else with the same company.

I think you find fault with almost every comment that is posted on here.

And DSL could have stayed at $14.95 why ATT doesn't pay much for their transit when their the upstream provider past the DSLAM they don't have to pay to expand like other ISPs or pay wholesale. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21672208 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:23:51 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671397 said by Cthen:

said by hottboiinnc:

And look how many people used free dial-up providers back when those were hot. If it can be done with the Internet it can be done for Voice.

And where did all of those free providers go? Oh that's right, out of business even before broadband became an option for alot of people. So what reason is there for a VoIP provider to make the same mistake?
Even NetZero (once the king of free dialup) charges $9.95...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671397 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:44:17 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671392
Many cable companies don't offer regional plans.. some have dabbled in it so far, however, they all mostly price out on the one price fits all.

They're not looking to reduce what they collect from a consumer, they are as most people notice, pricing their services at a rate they need to survive. Consumers would like to have an ultra low cost service, but like anything, there has to be sustainability to operate. (Note: dls rates have gone up becuase they could NEVER sustain the $14 price point they tried. That whole mess was a ploy to gain customers from the competition.. that whole mess should be, in my view, investigated)

But, what I'm saying though, is that if the fees are already unlimited, what point would a system to system peer and free in-like-calling benefit? Maybe I'm missing something.

In-calling isn't really more than an advertising ploy developed by the cellular industry. Honestly, with the pricing point that cable wants, I doubt we'll ever see any kind of plan like that in the future. What I think we will see is a slight downward pricing of the service itself.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671392 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:41:39 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671362
I asked your age for a simple reason becuase most people that are YOUNGER do NOT understand or have ever seen a phone bill over $40 in their life, THAT'S why!

But anyway, if you are over 50 and have paid those kinds of bills before, I don't think you're being honest in calling a $40 service which includes both local and long distance as well as calling features that used to, alone, cost $40 excessive.

What I would call you is un-reasonable at best with that way of thinking. You're also trying to pass your $10 a month service off as normal when it's far from it; more of an exception to the 'norm'..

I'll accept your apology at anytime now for your inability to read a simple message and over react like so many do here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671362 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:35:56 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671146 said by hottboiinnc:

And look how many people used free dial-up providers back when those were hot. If it can be done with the Internet it can be done for Voice.

And where did all of those free providers go? Oh that's right, out of business even before broadband became an option for alot of people. So what reason is there for a VoIP provider to make the same mistake?
--
"I like to reffer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondeck]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671146 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:48:19 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671105 said by fiberguy:

said by priller:

Unfortunately, the cable co's have managed to convince the general public that their $40/month service is actually a great deal! Unbelievable. Of course, Joe Consumer has no clue that it's VoIP .... it's "digital voice", right? :D
How old are you? Can't be that old to be honest. You've probably never seen a $50 to $250 phone bill in your life, huh?

Personal attacks, real nice.

If you must know, I'm over 50 and have paid those prices. That's why I would never pay the excessive cost of CDV. I only use PAYG VoIP providers. I can't remember when my monthly phone bill has been over $10.

VoIP.ms
Callcentric
VoIPVoIP]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21671105 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:39:53 EDT Re: Already peering http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Already-peering-21670917
but many offer local and regional only plans that save money to the customer (TWC is one of the majors that offer local and regional plans on top of the Unlimited). It would give people that lower their bills plus allow the Cable companies to gain more customers.

It's not about saving money for the customer by peering. But getting them on Digital Voice/VoIP and keeping them there while giving them what they want. Especially if Grandma who has TWC in NYC and wants to call her Grandson in CA on Comcast. She would be able to save money by having her local calling but also talking to him for free due to Comcast and TWC could peer and keep their calls ON NETWORK instead of going to the PSTN.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Already-peering-21670917 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:01:42 EDT Already peering http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Already-peering-21670822
The real beauty of voip peering is that is allows better call quality (fewer codecs) and can also permit video telephony.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Already-peering-21670822 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:42:11 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670810 said by priller:

Unfortunately, the cable co's have managed to convince the general public that their $40/month service is actually a great deal! Unbelievable. Of course, Joe Consumer has no clue that it's VoIP .... it's "digital voice", right? :D
How old are you? Can't be that old to be honest. You've probably never seen a $50 to $250 phone bill in your life, huh?

With that in mind, I think THAT is how come people see $40 a month as not only a 'great deal' but a fabulously fantastic STEAL of a deal.

I also find a great deal wrong with your post period. Cable companies have managed to have a great deal for many reasons. For one, $40 is extremely cheap considering that telephone still can't touch that price point with copper, but players like AT&T will so long as they have television plans (uverse). Second, the cable companies didn't have to convince the public of anything.. the public isn't stupid and can figure it out on their own. $40 a month is a good deal considering we just came from an era of telephone charging a butt and arm for dial tone service with in this very decade. To this day, I can STILL pay MORE for the long distance side's base rate than the local dial-tone side at any major provider.

What I also find wrong is that people will still compare a service like Vonage to that of a managed phone provider like Cable or Telephone.. they are clearly in a different class.. and this comes from someone that has Qwest (1 line for stability + DSL), Comcast CDV (4 lines) and Vonage (2 lines)..

it's not unbelievable at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670810 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:40:28 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670805
Cable companies would still get their money. Plus it would lower their cost to connect to the PSTN.

$250 for a phone bill isnt much compared to when you have a $500 per month like i did for family that went to England when their Vonage or 'Net would go down and you had to call their actual UK number.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670805 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:39:59 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670776
The only issue I have with cable offering free calling from company to company is 1) it won't happen, that would cut a revenue stream they enjoy today. 2) I really don't like the idea of having a plan where some calls may be free and others are going to be charged. I, like many, like predictability which is why the flat rate telephone plan is more popular than a measured rate plan is.

If cable wanted to offer a reduced rate plan and offered free in-calling, great, but I doubt it would ever be industry wide. Even then, what comes with such a plan is ultimately always going to be that stick that comes with the carrot. You're going then have a side of the plan that is measured for other calls. No thanks. ;)

$25 a month for Vonage and $40 a month for comcast CVD is perfectly in the norm for a guy like me that grew up with $80 to $250 phone bills each month. Maybe having this kind of a past is why I have a really hard time seeing people bitch over spending $25 a month, even, for vonage or the $40 or even $50 that cable charges. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670776 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:34:32 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670755
To me, I see it as someone trying to tear down a vital industry and associate it as a joke.

No matter how much wireless and mobility this nation has for communication, having a secure, stable, wired solution is a must. Wireless has way too many things that stand in the way to being labeled a lifeline service and always will.

But, as for the zero or near zero.. its a Utopian, as you said, pipe-dream that will never happen. I'm still waiting for the great day that MagicJack becomes a BBR front page news article that the owner was indited for running a ponzi-scheme or simply goes belly up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670755 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:29:51 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670710 said by hottboiinnc:

It would be simple to put a small ad on each out going call. All you have to do is insert the ad before the call is completed. a 15 second ad there would be nothing. Time and Temp. numbers do it. VoIP can do it. And look how many people used free dial-up providers back when those were hot. If it can be done with the Internet it can be done for Voice.

Cable Companies could have their day in the sun if they turned and peered their networks together and created a large VoIP to VoIP plan.

Free calling from any cable company to another that offers Digital Phone.

Would be a HUGE hit. Especially since they wouldn't have to pay to put the calls on to the PSTN if they could keep them on their network until it would reach the other cable network for peering.
Except for the ad idea, I agree your other ideas make sense.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670710 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:20:50 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670668 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670668 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:12:48 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670596
Cable Companies could have their day in the sun if they turned and peered their networks together and created a large VoIP to VoIP plan.

Free calling from any cable company to another that offers Digital Phone.

Would be a HUGE hit. Especially since they wouldn't have to pay to put the calls on to the PSTN if they could keep them on their network until it would reach the other cable network for peering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670596 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:01:19 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670509 --
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670509 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:43:09 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670275 said by priller:

Unfortunately, the cable co's have managed to convince the general public that their $40/month service is actually a great deal! Unbelievable. Of course, Joe Consumer has no clue that it's VoIP .... it's "digital voice", right? :D
I'm not sure if Comcast's telephone service really is a true VOIP.

Bottom line is people want a sense of security when it comes to their home/business phone number and as attractive as Vonage has made it cost wise, they really haven't shown how their product is secure and dependble enough for Joe Sixpack's mom and dad to jump on board.

And when I mean secure let's not all throw the wiretapping crap, we're talking about preditory private entities.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670275 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:48:49 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670227 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670227 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:40:20 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670201 said by Fox McCloud:

once the vast vast majority of the country has access to broadband, Cosidering who ISPs don't care about providing service to people in rural areas I'd say this will happen um NEVER.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21670201 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:33:55 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669979 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669979 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:53:25 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669893 said by ThrowDemsOut:

said by Fox McCloud:

That said, the day when most everyone uses the Internet to make calls, and the price is zero (or very close to it), it'll definitely be very very nice...hopefully, by then, wideband will have taken over.
The price point will never be ZERO as long as people need cust svc support to help them out with problems. People cost money and businesses will charge for that.

And before someone brings up the ad supported business plan, will you use a voice service that interrupts your call for a commercial? Say every 10 mins, you have to interrupt your conversation for a 30 sec ad(like a Hulu video).
let me rephrase that---for some VoIP, the price will probably be zero, but the only people that will use it are the tech savvy--the "near zero" will be the VoIP which has customer support.

now, if phones had a small video display, ad-supported VoIP might work :P
--
"True Patriotism is more closely linked with dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security...I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist abusive state power." -Ron Paul]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669893 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:41:20 EDT Re: well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669777 said by Fox McCloud:

That said, the day when most everyone uses the Internet to make calls, and the price is zero (or very close to it), it'll definitely be very very nice...hopefully, by then, wideband will have taken over.
The price point will never be ZERO as long as people need cust svc support to help them out with problems. People cost money and businesses will charge for that.

And before someone brings up the ad supported business plan, will you use a voice service that interrupts your call for a commercial? Say every 10 mins, you have to interrupt your conversation for a 30 sec ad(like a Hulu video).
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-well-21669777 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:19:41 EDT well... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/well-21669699
That said, the day when most everyone uses the Internet to make calls, and the price is zero (or very close to it), it'll definitely be very very nice...hopefully, by then, wideband will have taken over.
--
"True Patriotism is more closely linked with dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security...I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist abusive state power." -Ron Paul]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/well-21669699 Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:54:42 EDT