how-to block ads
|
|
Share Topic
 |
 |
|
|
1 edit | reply to Lenagainster
Re: filling a void said by Lenagainster: Why have your source of communications be tied to your house? Because bandwidth intensive applications, like video in all it's various flavors, will never be able to be provisioned over wireless. There's some basic physics at work. Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, messaging, alarm monitoring, meter reading, etc., is essentially zero.
Now, once they get the bugs worked out out quantum mechanics... | |
| said by travelguy:...Because bandwidth intensive applications, like video in all it's various flavors, will never be able to be provisioned over wireless.
...
NEVER??
In any case, I thought we were talking about voice communications. Why have your PHONE tied to your house? | |
 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | said by Lenagainster: Why have your PHONE tied to your house? Maybe because I rarely go out?
No need to keep it on a charger.
Always a great connection - no "bars" required.
Yeah, I own a couple cell phones... just incase.
Moms has no need or want for a cell either.
$44 per month(fees included) and she can yak for hours without a battery dying - and since it's CDV, it doesn't rely on internet to work! 
Pros and cons on both sides, it depends on what works for the individual.
As they say, YMMV.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| reply to Lenagainster
said by Lenagainster:I thought we were talking about voice communications. Why have your PHONE tied to your house? Reread this sentence: Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, messaging, alarm monitoring, meter reading, etc., is essentially zero. | |
| reply to travelguy
So why do plenty of phones in Europe have cameras on their fronts? of couse you can do video over wireless! | |
| said by iansltx_ :
So why do plenty of phones in Europe have cameras on their fronts? of couse you can do video over wireless! There's a substantial difference between a little postage stamp sized, low resolution cell phone video, and a full up HD video channel. | |
| reply to travelguy
said by travelguy:... Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, ...., etc., is essentially zero. I got the pipe; FiOS for Internet amd TV. My VoIP ain't free. Local plan, $16/mo. Never will be "free"
If we could get "unlimited" cell phone plans for what we are paying now for cell and VoIP combined, I'd drop the home phone in a minute. Some day, that will happen. Until then, VoIP is filling a void. | |
 N9MDPremium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:5
 ·VOIPo
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·PHONE POWER
1 edit | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:(1) Maybe because I rarely go out? (2) No need to keep it on a charger. (3) Always a great connection - no "bars" required. (4) Yeah, I own a couple cell phones... just in case. (5) Moms ... can yak for hours without a battery dying (6) it doesn't rely on internet to work! (7) it depends on what works for the individual. [1] Haven't you heard? We are a "mobile society". The masses "go out" ... a lot.
[2] Cellphones can work even while they are charging when at home or in the car. PSTN & VoIP phones require a continuous power source, making them "immobile".
[3] Early cellular service suffered from a paucity of "cells". But the cellular infrastructure is constantly being expanded ... even into remote areas.
[4] I rest my case ... mentioning "a couple cell phones" suggests dependency. Have you considered "Cellular Rehab"? 
[5] With either a cellular "docking" power source or a simple power block plugged into a wall socket, Mommy Dearest can talk for decades.
[6] Correct! Cellular doesn't need an ISP connection.
[7] From a corporate perspective, it depends on what works for the masses ... 'cause that's the only way for a company to make a profit.
My personal prediction is that ... if Cable & PSTN companies can keep the pricing for their internet phone service down and the features up when compared with traditional phone service ... they will remain a strong, growing presence in the telecommunications arena. Traditional phone service will continue to lose customers to cellular and cable/PSTN VoIP.
And independent VoIP will plod along serving a small percentage of the population ... with the exception of VoIP providers that are ssociated with entities such as web hosting services that provide a large customer base of potential VoIP customers. | |
| reply to Lenagainster
said by Lenagainster:said by travelguy:... Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, ...., etc., is essentially zero. I got the pipe; FiOS for Internet amd TV. My VoIP ain't free. Local plan, $16/mo. Never will be "free" I said the cost is essentially free - not the price. Pricing is set by what a consumer will pay. Right now, the telcos set the price of voice communications, so the cable companies follow along when pricing their digital voice products. | | |
|
 CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | reply to N9MD
All of the above explains why my brother and fathers cell in Spokane, WA cuts out - sometimes as much as every other word.
Sorry - I will keep POTS for a myriad of reason including call quality. I do know that after taxes and fees - Vonage is not cheaper than my pots and with a phone call I can get my POTS bill to below $30/month. | |
fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to N9MD
If you want to have an expensive cellular service as your primary line, go for it. Stop trying to figure out what others need or want. The land line is far from dead now and won't be dead for many years to come. Just becuase some people are going all cell phone doesn't mean the land line is out.
To be honest, many creditors find the cell-only customer a risk. Please enjoy that status. I'm not going to hash out the pros and cons of a cell phone, however, cellular phones are not cheap, no matter what anyone wants to say. You get less and you pay more per minute you use one. They are conveniences that many people pay a premium for.
This, coming from someone that was an early adopter and had cell service before more than probably 90% of the people on this site, back in 1990 at 40 cents per minute and $25 a month, yes, I still say that the majority of people that have cell phones still don't need them.. and are often the same group of people that will cry foul at $39 a month for an all you can eat land line.
So.. $39 a month land line including local and long distance based on a 5,000 minute per month service? Or, (an example) $50 a month service (voice only) with about 350 minutes..
.. and that is why the land line hasn't seen an explosive death. Not only do people like to be mobile, they like to talk, too, and you can't really carry a conversation on with a cell phone unless you have mobile to mobile on the same carrier, talk at night after 9pm, or like me, an unlimited plan at $99 a month, which I largely use for business.
(please do not flood me wit your guys rate plans and what you have.. there are many, so I used a good average plan, which is valid, as my example) | |
dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to N9MD
Wow! So, because you *CAN* go out, that means my legs magically start working normally and I can go out too? Awesome!
*I* have a couple,
#1 cell is a POS disposable that I haven't disposed of yet.
#2 is an AT&T Razr that drops calls better than it makes them. w00t!
Got it because it was on sale and everyone said AT&T had "More bars in more places" - BULLSHIT!
No, CDV doesn't need a internet connection - try reading the post again, thanks!
Read the article again.
Comcast added 500K new CDV customers... wonder why that is?
Like I said, my elderly mother has no want to try and learn how to use a cell - what might be a breeze for you and I is not second nature to her.
Thanks for understanding!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to iansltx_
Okay... there is a difference of taking a picture or a small video and sending a "file" over the cellular service vs. streaming live video with quality worth anything that matters.
I have Spring EVDO service and use their TV service and tell you what, I'd go blind if I tried to watch that service for very long. It's a nice toy, and nice when you're somewhere and need or have a real desire to catch something (say a breaking news story, or to see who won the American Idol I suppose) but as a form of viable delivery.. eh... pass.
The thing, too, is that there is such a rush to bring video to the cellular world when there doesn't need to be, honestly. Cellular video can wait until faster speeds come along. This is NOT one technology that we all need to spend money in, foolishly, as they continue to beta test (yes, I said beta test) a service at our expense. When they start building out cell networks that can handle speeds good enough to run a real and viable service, well, then they are more than welcome to expect some business their way.
But, again, the stuff you're talking about is not "video".. its still just a file transfer and there is a difference. | |
| reply to N9MD
said by N9MD:[2] Cellphones can work even while they are charging when at home or in the car. PSTN & VoIP phones require a continuous power source, making them " immobile". Anything that needs a chord is sort of immobile. A cell phone attached to a car requires a car with a good battery. Pretty pricey alternative, an alternative nonetheless.
said by N9MD:[3] Early cellular service suffered from a paucity of "cells". But the cellular infrastructure is constantly being expanded ... even into remote areas. Amen, for voice (pots)
said by N9MD:[5] With either a cellular "docking" power source or a simple power block plugged into a wall socket, Mommy Dearest can talk for decades. True, if it was really simple. None of the cell companies are pushing that...perhaps you have a business plan in the making?
said by N9MD:[6] Correct! Cellular doesn't need an ISP connection. What technology requires an ISP connection (which is a political difference to encourage internet services)?
The cellular companies are inherently ISPs, no different than their affiliate telephone companies that are the ISPs or the cable companies that are the ISPs. There are no ISPs that differ from their incumbent providers without an arrangement by the incumbent providers to allow it, at least in the USA. Your telephone company or cable company is your ISP (toss in the cellular company if you wish, but they are always owned by telephone companies with few exceptions).
said by N9MD:[7] From a corporate perspective, it depends on what works for the masses ... 'cause that's the only way for a company to make a profit. Perhaps, if that's their business model.
said by N9MD:My personal prediction is that ... if Cable & PSTN companies can keep the pricing for their internet phone service down and the features up when compared with traditional phone service ... they will remain a strong, growing presence in the telecommunications arena. Traditional phone service will continue to lose customers to cellular and cable/PSTN VoIP. My prediction, instead of the old telephone company + ld company (att/mci/sprint) we have a new telephone company that owns an LD company. They will continue to receive the same $ in an IP world as they did in the circuit switched world. They will own the wireless network and seek to absorb content delivery at a price (simple enough, text message price vs internet price of text). The cable company will be viable competition, but because of law, can not be absorbed by the telephone companies, yet.
The companies that survive the wreckage, ATT, Verizon, Comcast (predominantly -x att cable).
Bottom line, don't kid yourself that wireless companies are different than telephone companies or that cable companies, which were also built on "guaranteed returns" are all that different or any are benevolent. 2 or 3 players are never competitors.
Dial-up internet would never have grown without 3 party competitors (clecs). At least 8 mass providers in chicago is dwindled down to t, comcast and a few spotty wireless plays - from 8 consistent players to 2 to 3.
said by N9MD:And independent VoIP will plod along serving a small percentage of the population ... with the exception of VoIP providers that are ssociated with entities such as web hosting services that provide a large customer base of potential VoIP customers. There were a few hundred LD resellers back in the day, there will likely be more reselling voip in various flavours...good in the sense that there are more sellers, then again, there sure are a lot of web hosts and "virtual PBX" providers out there..who to trust? | |
N9MDPremium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·VOIPo
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·PHONE POWER
| reply to fiberguy
Let's all chill! said by fiberguy:If you want to have an expensive cellular service as your primary line, go for it. Stop trying to figure out what others need or want. The land line is far from dead now and won't be dead for many years to come. Just because some people are going all cell phone doesn't mean the land line is out. To be honest, many creditors find the cell-only customer a risk. Please enjoy that status. This, coming from someone that was an early adopter and had cell service before more than probably 90% of the people on this site, back in 1990.... .. and that is why the land line hasn't seen an explosive death. Jeez, fiberguy, did someone put itching powder in your Jockey shorts? I made the point that a family plan with 4 or 5 lines in one account brings down the monthly per phone costs.
Where was I "trying to figure out what others need or want"? My numbered responses were either factual or were my opinion ... and last time I looked, the BBR Forums were designed for a combination of fact and opinion.
Are we not a "mobile society"? Most kids today start carrying cell phones in 6th or 7th grade ... that makes them mobile. Just how many families do you think do not have at least one cell phone. Not to be socially insensitive, but in the "free" University medical clinic where I volunteer my gastroenterolgy services, just about every patient (no matter their financial status) carries a cell phone. And I've yet to find folks driving a Mercedes to be without a cell phone. I suspect much of the social strata in between carry cell phones as well.
Do not cell phones work while charging when at home or in the car ... and continue to work when the charger is removed. On the other hand, don't VOIP & PSTN & CDV require a source of voltage to function?
Did I not state that "the cellular infrastructure is constantly being expanded"? Of course we know there are cellular "dead zones" throughout the country, even in big cities ... but the number of "dead zones" has dropped geometrically over the years as new towers and relay equipment are erected ... with more to come in the future.
Was my reference to a cellular "docking" station inaccurate? I think not. These devices allow one to have extension phones throughout the home while charging the cell phone ... and using it as the main home line.
Did I not state in my next to last paragraph ... "My personal prediction is..."? And was anything in that paragraph factually inaccurate or outrageous opinion? PSTN providers are indeed losing business to Cable & VoIP & Cellular phone services. People are not abandoning PSTN ... but they are cancelling or not signing up for second or third PSTN lines within their homes ... for use by their kids or for faxing or other uses. Those "second" lines are being switched over to non-PSTN services.
I stated "Traditional phone service will continue to lose customers to cellular and cable/PSTN VoIP." I did not say that PSTN will see "an explosive death."
Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative ... I am just hoping you will understand the nature of the information I posted ... without any intent on my part to dictate the wants or needs of others.
----====----====
Two more points to make:
Upon reading the comment "many creditors find the cell-only customer a risk" I was curious to check this out. I called a dear friend who is a member of my golf club and who happens to be the President of Valley Bancorp (a NYSE listed company) -- a bank with numerous branches throughout New Jersey and New York. He informed me that the presence or absence of a home phone account is ... to his knowledge ... not a part of the scoring system for the three major credit reporting agencies ... and, although a phone number is required, his loan committee and loan officers have no idea if a loan applicant is giving a PSTN or Cellular or VoIP phone number on the application.
And not to rub it in (really, I'm sincere) ... I began with mobile telephone service in 1976 with a Motorola transceiver in the trunk of an Oldsmobile Cutlass, a whip antenna clipped to the rain gutter, and a full-sized telephone handset mounted in the console between the front bucket seats. (I think that makes me a lot older than most.)
------=======
I took the time to compose this lengthy response because it's getting to the point in the BBR VoIP Forums where anyone posting differing opinions or offering varying interpretations of "facts" unleashes unduly harsh, mean-spirited responses ... and even I may be guilty of this on occasion. Some folks are taking the enjoyment out of the Forums ... especially when others are simply "making conversation".
said by dadkins:Wow! So, because you *CAN* go out, that means my legs magically start working normally and I can go out too? Awesome! *I* have a couple, #1 cell is a POS disposable that I haven't disposed of yet. #2 is an AT&T Razr that drops calls better than it makes them. w00t! Got it because it was on sale and everyone said AT&T had "More bars in more places" - BULLSHIT! No, CDV doesn't need a internet connection - try reading the post again, thanks! To continue ... dadkins, your first paragraph seems to indicate that you have a physical affliction that limits your "getting out." May I respectfully point out that we posters would have no way of knowing your condition ... and therefore your assumption that I was personally insulting your opinions because of your "condition" was a bit uncalled for. However, it might explain why the thought of "mobility" triggered a spate of pique on your part.
I and my family use ATT Mobile and we do indeed find that it has "More bars in more places" in the areas we frequent throughout the US --- and by the way the Olive Garden restaurant chain also seems to have "more bars in more places", but that's a story for another day. As others have said, we must each find the plan or service that suits our personal needs and our pocketbooks. There is no one product that fits everyone's situation.
"No, CDV doesn't need a internet connection - try reading the post again, thanks!" ... I believe I specifically referenced "an ISP connection" (which is what one needs when using CDV) ... and this connection does require a working power source to function.
-----=====
So let's all take a deep breath ... calm our frazzled psyches .... and reflect on the purpose of public forums. | |
N9MDPremium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·VOIPo
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·PHONE POWER
| reply to xsiddalx
Let's be friends xsiddalx --- Thanks for a well thought out response. Your comments are logical and well-reasoned ... and free of barbs!
Two quick thoughts (benign):
If a cell phone is plugged into the car's power source while the car is in motion ... is that considered "mobile" or "immobile"?
My reference to an "ISP connection" was an assumption that CDV telephone service for most folks is delivered by their ISP. In our area of Northern NJ, CableVision/OptimumOnLine serves both functions. | |
| reply to Lenagainster
Re: filling a void said by Lenagainster:said by travelguy:... Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, ...., etc., is essentially zero. I got the pipe; FiOS for Internet amd TV. My VoIP ain't free. Local plan, $16/mo. Never will be "free" If we could get "unlimited" cell phone plans for what we are paying now for cell and VoIP combined, I'd drop the home phone in a minute. Some day, that will happen. Until then, VoIP is filling a void. Simple enouugh...long term, your "mobile" and "fixed" will be one price. In theory, they will be a feature of your "internet access", which will be priced on a usage basis.
"video" will be part and parcel....after all, voice, video and data are all just packets...
Who will bring 'em on? My bet is on the telcos unless the cable guys figure out how to add wireless to the equation.
The telcos (wireless) are the sole owners on that mechanism and are consolidating like mad to att/verizon lately.
In the meantime, take the cheapest McDonalds combo you can get...but like low mortgage rates (cheap/easy) just realize they won't last forever.
Competition requires more than two or three players. | |
| reply to travelguy
said by travelguy:said by Lenagainster:I thought we were talking about voice communications. Why have your PHONE tied to your house? Reread this sentence: Once you have the pipe in place to do video, the marginal cost of doing voice, messaging, alarm monitoring, meter reading, etc., is essentially zero. Marginal cost pricing presumes original pricing fully recovers costs.
It presumes perfect competition.
Nothing is ever essentially zero
The accountants, economists, finance, marketing & engineering folks all have a different idea of "costs". | |
| reply to N9MD
Re: Let's be friends said by N9MD:xsiddalx --- Thanks for a well thought out response. Your comments are logical and well-reasoned ... and free of barbs! Two quick thoughts (benign): If a cell phone is plugged into the car's power source while the car is in motion ... is that considered "mobile" or "immobile"? My reference to an "ISP connection" was an assumption that CDV telephone service for most folks is delivered by their ISP. In our area of Northern NJ, CableVision/OptimumOnLine serves both functions. Typical cable/isp-provided telephone service over IP is so not Vonage-like. Can you use your Cablevision/OOL service away from home?
My comment was semi-serious, a wire is a wire. The ISP market is currently Cable, Telco or Telco-owned Cellular with a dash of satellite, powerline and dial-up tossed in.
Of course the conversation of tethering really needs to be extended to the provider...how do we keep our digital identities and worlds completely separate from the companies that provide us access to those worlds (why have an address/id for every site we visit?)
A dream of pure competition in the communications market...I gather...I want one ID but no one company to control my access via it. | |
| reply to dadkins
Re: filling a void said by dadkins:No, CDV doesn't need a internet connection - try reading the post again, thanks! Sure it does. They just don't give you access to the rest of the internet. They could also offer you access to movie reviews for 3 bucks a month (connecting to IMDB), do you really think that's different? If so, how so?
said by dadkins:Read the article again. Comcast added 500K new CDV customers... wonder why that is? It's simple enough....they play the old MCI game (remember them? (Bernie Ebbers). Price slightly below the incumbent, we customers love that. Of course they do a good job of claiming not to provide phone service to the feds while advertising "phone service" to you and your mom.
Old news: »Comcast Phones Stop Ringing In Michigan
better yet, the source:
»fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···1.pdf%3E | |
|
