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Security Software Updates - 09 Jan 2009 »
« SANS ISC Question(s)  
page: 1 · 2

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Ubuntu v's Windows

As the title says.

I'm looking at setting up a laptop for my mum.

- It will be used for mainly email, IM, photos
- She has no experience
- I have very limited experience with any linux(a live CD or 2 is all).
- Xp Home is currently installed, but will be format/installing fresh, if I use windows.
- To do anything for her,(other side of the country), I will need to remote desktop, or use LogMeIn to manage it.

I'm basically looking at security for her.
Ease of use for basic functions and as she is inexperienced, wondering if my limited playing will affect issues like Instant Messaging/camera for the grandkids to communicate. I see items like Pidgin as a compatible IM to help cross over the different colours of IM, but there is the issue of what can be installed on Linux.

Note: Linux is better fan's need not reply. I'm not asking for which is better, I've drawn my conclusions already there. I realise this will start a war...LOL...I just want to know the pro's/con's before approaching the end result.

This is a practicality issue against security benefits for her needs/experience v's location for maintainance.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

Vampirefo
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-11
Huntington, WV
·Comcast

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

Ubuntu isn't Linux it is a Linux distro, I see that all the time people comparing windows to Ubuntu cause people for whatever reason thinks Ubuntu is linux.

It would be as dumb as me saying Linux verses w98, windows users would jump up and say windows 98 is just a version of windows it not windows.

There are over 300 distro or versions of Linux, Linux is as easy to use as any os, it will do all that you require, now does Ubuntu do that no clue, never used it.
--
Best RegardsVampirefo
SUMware
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Any general Linux distro should be able to do all that's needed, including Ubuntu. I've not used Ubuntu extensively either.

BTW - you can keep Windows installed along with Linux. You are not required to delete it.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by SUMware See Profile :

Any general Linux distro should be able to do all that's needed, including Ubuntu. I've not used Ubuntu extensively either.
Both you and Vampirefo are saying the same thing here. I've not found an IM client to run. Is Gaim the only one, if so will it work with others enough?

said by SUMware See Profile :

BTW - you can keep Windows installed along with Linux. You are not required to delete it.
I really can't see the point in that. It would be easier to just uninstall, source Microsoft to obtain the OEM and have it for another machine.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
SUMware
Premium
join:2002-05-21


4 edits

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by norwegian See Profile :

Both you and Vampirefo are saying the same thing here. I've not found an IM client to run. Is Gaim the only one, if so will it work with others enough?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin_(software)
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopete
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabber_(in···_client)
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabbim_(client)
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_(insta···_client)

Goggle for others. Pidgin (Gaim) & Kopete seem to be the most popular.
said by norwegian See Profile :

what of software for them that may need installing, how limiting is some of the choices that may come into play later?
Good question. Selecting a distribution with large repositories will offer the most choices down the road. A Debian based distro as well as openSUSE offer huge repos with vast software collections.

openSUSE maintains their repos 24/7 with the latest software and patches. Other distros do not. The newest versions are made available ASAP. This may be an important consideration. And YaST is a wonderful OS/software manager.

And, as you know, no 3rd party security of any kind is needed.
KodiacZiller

join:2008-09-04
73368

If security is your primary concern, then I recommend one of the following "easy to use" Linux distros:

Ubuntu
PCLOS
Mandriva
Linux Mint

If you don't mind running a 32 bit system, then PCLOS is definitely the way to go for a beginner. Like with most Linux distros, installing software is as easy as opening up the package manager and browsing for what you want.

As for security, be sure to tell your mom to use a user account (you will be prompted to set one up when you install, and most distros won't allow you to log-in to the desktop as root anyway). If she has a router, you won't need to enable IPtables (firewall) since outgoing connections won't be an issue (since viruses and trojans are non-existent and cannot install themselves even if they were). No AV or other such junk will be needed.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by KodiacZiller See Profile :

If security is your primary concern, then I recommend one of the following "easy to use" Linux distros:

Ubuntu
PCLOS
Mandriva
Linux Mint

If you don't mind running a 32 bit system, then PCLOS is definitely the way to go for a beginner. Like with most Linux distros, installing software is as easy as opening up the package manager and browsing for what you want.
I will have a browse over these but what of software for them that may need installing, how limiting is some of the choices that may come into play later? Guess I need to do a little research.

said by KodiacZiller See Profile :

As for security, be sure to tell your mom to use a user account (you will be prompted to set one up when you install, and most distros won't allow you to log-in to the desktop as root anyway). If she has a router, you won't need to enable IPtables (firewall) since outgoing connections won't be an issue (since viruses and trojans are non-existent and cannot install themselves even if they were). No AV or other such junk will be needed.
This is what I'm considering Linux for to start with, it is her inexperience and emails off others that will nail the box, knowing all too well emails off friends who do not research what they are doing only to pass it on to someone else who knows even less.

As for the router, being she will want the functionality of wireless, I think the best approach is getting a wireless router, or a router, then wireless endpoint, as our wireless in Australia is...well...a rip off, especially if using a cam to chat comes into play.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

ilago
Premium
join:2005-06-28
Australia
·Internode

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by norwegian See Profile :

said by KodiacZiller See Profile :

If security is your primary concern, then I recommend one of the following "easy to use" Linux distros:

Ubuntu
PCLOS
Mandriva
Linux Mint

If you don't mind running a 32 bit system, then PCLOS is definitely the way to go for a beginner. Like with most Linux distros, installing software is as easy as opening up the package manager and browsing for what you want.
I will have a browse over these but what of software for them that may need installing, how limiting is some of the choices that may come into play later? Guess I need to do a little research.

If you select a KDE desktop, then Kopete is built-in. It is not the same as Gaim. It may be worth also asking this here »All Things Unix

I don't use a webcam but I'm aware of several other people that do successfully use video chat on various linux distros.

I'd second the choice of distros although I prefer PCLinuxOS running KDE as the desktop rather than Gnome. I'm using openSuse one box and PCLinuxOS on my laptop.

The linux user groups are usually helpful and I think most Australian states have active mailing lists for questions and assistance. The SA linux user group is active and helpful »www.linux.org.au/usergroups

salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium
join:2004-01-08
WA State


1 edit
said by norwegian See Profile :

As for the router, being she will want the functionality of wireless, I think the best approach is getting a wireless router, or a router, then wireless endpoint, as our wireless in Australia is...well...a rip off, especially if using a cam to chat comes into play.
Getting the wireless connection to work reliably was the biggest problem I had with setting up Ubuntu. Would you be at your Mom's place to get it all set up and running?

Will you be able to talk her through getting it to work by phone if she loses connection?

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by salzan See Profile :

Getting the wireless connection to work reliably was the biggest problem I had with setting up Ubuntu. Would you be at your Mom's place to get it all set up and running?

Will you be able to talk her through getting it to work by phone if she loses connection?
Very valid point. No I will not.

I will have the laptop here till I am happy with the end result before passing it on. So the connection may be better looked at from my end first.

If I organise the hardware to connect, I can set it all up here at home, shut down everything not needed, password protect everything that needs it and when it comes to sending it to her, organise what passwords she will use for the ISP connection before it ships and she has it connected. That way it will be basically plug it in and nothing to do so troubleshooting can be eliminated before it gets there.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

Sindows 7

join:2006-09-13
Hope, BC

Which of these games can I play on any OS besides Windows?

tempnexus
Premium
join:1999-08-11
Boston, MA

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

You might get the, PS, SNES and Atari emulators on other OS.

ID software (Wolfenstein) will play in Linux but besides that...good luck....but wait you can get a very nice Photoshop CS on MAC and spend productive hours editing pictures for Photoshop Phriday at Somethingawful.com

Sir Meowmix III

@windstream.net

said by Sindows 7 See Profile :

Which of these games can I play on any OS besides Windows?
Wolf you can, no problems there. You cannot play these games under Linux. I will use »Vista IE 7 Freeze Soild, can't close or get desktop as a reference.

* IE7; Random Freeze
* Return to Malware, Deluxe Edition
* AV rotating-cups; 0 day adventure
* DRM, it's neat!
* Montazune's revenge, incompetent date handling.
* Lay-off 2009; 17K vaporization
* Vista; it's a complete re-write (excluding 2nd Tuesday's)
* IE7; IE6 with innovative tabbed browsing.
* OEM Strong-Arm, Double-Fist III

Those games look pretty neat.
*

GILXA1226
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-29
London, OH
clubs:

said by Sindows 7 See Profile :

Which of these games can I play on any OS besides Windows?
Actually Using Wine you should be able to play all right now save for maybe GTAIV, I think there are still a few issues with that. Other than that you'd be good. Plus, IIRC Return to Castle Wolfenstein has a linux version that lets you load the game blob data off of the CD, so you don't need Wine in that case.

EveryName
Wake Up
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Montreal
COD4, Halo and snes/nes emulators are all on Mac.

norwegian_away

@net.au

I may point out, the laptop is coming free too, so this is why windows is already on it, it is only a 32-bit box.
She won't be a gamer either, just mail/photos/IM really, maybe next year it will change, but she is near 60!

MAC O/S, sarcasm aside is a very dear box to buy! Even though my Apple IIc at the time, I would not have looked elsewhere, and Macintosh then were way out of my league.

thanks for the input so far everyone.

salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium
join:2004-01-08
WA State

I put Ubuntu on my Wife's computer when I rebuilt it and, for day to day surfing, email, writing letters and such, it's fine. It even recognizes her digital camera just like Windows does. From her standpoint, there is no difference.

With that said, if you know little about Linux and are going to attempt to work on it remotely, I wouldn't recommend it.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by salzan See Profile :

I put Ubuntu on my Wife's computer when I rebuilt it and, for day to day surfing, email, writing letters and such, it's fine. It even recognizes her digital camera just like Windows does. From her standpoint, there is no difference.
The only problem I can tell is the IM client. I can't see this setup not having an IM on. Whether we need to look at video due to our expensive connections down under is another thing.

said by salzan See Profile :

With that said, if you know little about Linux and are going to attempt to work on it remotely, I wouldn't recommend it.
This is one of my biggest concerns and half the reason I asked here before being a fool and rushing it off to her, only to find this may be an issue later.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

IM client in ubuntu is pidgin (used to be called Gaim) and it works just dandy with every IM system you can think of)

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

I use it on Vista...LOL.

Vampirefo
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-11
Huntington, WV
For IM's use Pidgin Internet Messenger this covers almost every client including irc.
--
Best RegardsVampirefo

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast

Just based on the fact that she has no previous experience, I would think either Windows or Ubuntu would be a good choice. You just have to keep in mind the benefits/drawbacks of each option.

For instance, lets say she gets very comfortable with Ubuntu, and one of her friends gives her a CD that has a game on it for her to play. Its only Windows based and she really wants to play it. Do you want to be responsible for troubleshooting that and trying to find ways to get it working?

Don't get me wrong, I am a big proponent of Ubuntu and Windows. I have both in my home and I love them both. However, when handing out an OS to someone remotely, I have learned that Windows may be the best option.

If you load the proper utilities on a Windows based system, you won't have any issues with security. Thats a fact.

No matter which you choose though, you will be required to hand hold a bit. So, choose wisely. My choice would be to just stick with Windows and call it good. Install a yearly subscription with Symantec Antivirus OR go with a free antivirus solution with AVG. Turn on the firewall and you are good to go.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

Mummy on Mepis

@spcsdns.net
I've had mom on Mepis 6 for two years? Seems that long, what is great is all I've had to do is reboot the cable modem once in a while, she's behind a NAT, so no worries.

All she needs is point and click and Mepis works great.

Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC

My question would be, how comfortable are YOU with Ubuntu.

Regardless of any other fact, she's going to come to YOU when she has problems. If you don't know how to address them, it's going to be more of a headache than going with something you're familiar with. (The same with Windows if you're an Ubuntu / Mac person)

Go with what you know how to fix.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by Jahntassa See Profile :

My question would be, how comfortable are YOU with Ubuntu.

Regardless of any other fact, she's going to come to YOU when she has problems. If you don't know how to address them, it's going to be more of a headache than going with something you're familiar with. (The same with Windows if you're an Ubuntu / Mac person)

Go with what you know how to fix.
This is a concern, but I think if I go against Windows, I will have to install here locally the O/S she gets, so when it comes to troubleshooting, I can walk her through it.

Where as, Windows, well, I can walk anyone through it with confidence, due to I am experienced enough to have this not be a concern.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
If you know Windows, go with Windows if you'll be supporting it. If you want to experiment with another operating system, do it on a machine you have physical access to.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
·Comcast


1 edit
If it weren't for a few Windows based apps that I need to run, such as Visual Studio, I'd switch to Ubuntu. I've already migrated many of the current apps I'm running from commercial to stuff like OpenOffice.org, Thunderbird and GIMP. I'm tired of paying for all of the upgrades (or at least the thought of paying )

I'm using Ubuntu server on all of my datacenter boxes and it is great!

See 10 replies to this post

avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
The problem is that only you will maintain it if something goes bad. If you install windows and she has a problem, she might run to the next door teenager before she bugs you.
quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL

Ubuntu is fun to play with once in a while, but hardware drivers are a pain, even for major manufacturers such as NVIDIA and Creative. When I realized that I spent 90% of the time installing updates or fighting with drivers instead of actually USING Ubuntu, I stopped bothering.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
·WestNet Broadband

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by quatrix See Profile :

Ubuntu is fun to play with once in a while, but hardware drivers are a pain, even for major manufacturers such as NVIDIA and Creative. When I realized that I spent 90% of the time installing updates or fighting with drivers instead of actually USING Ubuntu, I stopped bothering.
I can eliminate these issues before it ships, doubt there will be a great deal of hardware to install later and as for updating drivers, can't see a lot needed there.

My inexperience with Ubuntu though has me querying how big an issue will drivers be down the road. I doubt she will be loading a lot onto the box to change the configuration or cause a driver conflict, at least the first 6-12 months anyway. So will driver issues be a bug?

Also I can keep a file of the installers on the box, or on a CD so if there is a need to uninstall/install it will be as smooth as possible.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast

Re: Ubuntu v's Windows

said by norwegian See Profile :

said by quatrix See Profile :

Ubuntu is fun to play with once in a while, but hardware drivers are a pain, even for major manufacturers such as NVIDIA and Creative. When I realized that I spent 90% of the time installing updates or fighting with drivers instead of actually USING Ubuntu, I stopped bothering.
I can eliminate these issues before it ships, doubt there will be a great deal of hardware to install later and as for updating drivers, can't see a lot needed there.

My inexperience with Ubuntu though has me querying how big an issue will drivers be down the road. I doubt she will be loading a lot onto the box to change the configuration or cause a driver conflict, at least the first 6-12 months anyway. So will driver issues be a bug?

Also I can keep a file of the installers on the box, or on a CD so if there is a need to uninstall/install it will be as smooth as possible.
I'd do ubuntu, personally, if I had the choice. Drivers won't be an issue in the current version, assuming the hardware isn't stoneage.

norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

Also, before I forget it, a warm thankyou for everyone who has replied. All the best for the year ahead.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

EveryName
Wake Up
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Montreal
Just use Windows, and set her up with a good anti-virus. Windows is easier to use.

ravencajun
Premium
join:2004-08-12
Houston, TX

I will throw in another vote for SimplyMepis linux I have been using Mepis7 for quite some time and love it, for the things you said she will be using it for there should be no problems, it comes with pretty much everything you need and the repositories through synaptic are very easy to use, Mepis just works right out of the box for most everything and has the built in assistants which are a plus.
I rarely use my Windows boxes these days. I am in the "older" category also and have been able to handle it just fine. It comes with ClamAv and guarddog firewall too.
I use Kopete for IM and have had no problems at all. I tried ubuntu and gnome but really much prefer a KDE desktop and like Mepis better. There is an excellent forum also at mepislovers.
You can of course add the other IM clients if you prefer them.
Putting it on a machine you have yourself would be a great idea and you may find your self switching over too.
Good luck what ever you choose to do.
--
Registered Linux user:476595

Maccawolf
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Hillsdale, NJ

IM software in Ubuntu repositories is ICQ. I've been using it for many years (even before I switched to Ubuntu). I greatly prefer it over any other of the WINDOWS compatible IM programs.
--
Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!
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