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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

Rogers the Robbers

a whole host of cable increases effecitive on or after March 1, 2009

TV changes are from $1 to $5

Then for Internet

Ultra lite Up $1.04 from $24.95 to 25.99
Lite Up $1.04 from $34.95 to 35.99
Express Up $1.04 from 44.95 to 46.99

EXTREME gets the EXTREME increase

Extreme up $5.04 from $54.95 to 59.99

Notes ...

If you signed up for Ultra Lite before 14 Jan 2008, your rate goes up $2.04 to 25.99

If you signed up for Lite befre 14 Jan 2008, your rate similarly goes up $3.04 to $35.99


pctechguy2

join:2001-10-07
Mississauga, ON
Let the good times roll........


jono181

join:2004-06-05
Toronto, ON
reply to sbrook
Those bums... I'm going to have to talk to someone to get this fixed.


OhMY GOD

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
Just purchased the HD PVR so I could save the rental fee, looks like I will give back most of my savings.


starlndn
Reluctant Rogers customer
Premium
join:2004-03-08
Nepean, ON
reply to sbrook
Another marketing school flunkie wrote that letter for sure.

Front page: bullet-point list of all the great things that Rogers does for me already. Yeah. 'splain it to me, slowly and with audio-visual aids, 'cause obviously I don't know what I have been paying for all this time.

Last paragraph: as outlined on the reverse of this page, as of March 1 2009 we'll have to rob you blind even more than we are now.


metalhawk

join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON
reply to sbrook
My bill goes up $8 ($5 for internet, $3 for TV) with no improvement. Speed will still be 10M and no increase in the already too small cap. No new TV station gets added to the VIP package.

What a **** ripoff.

Robrr

join:2008-04-19
Guelph, ON
reply to sbrook
Guess I will have to give them a phone call Monday

Robrr

join:2008-04-19
Guelph, ON
is there a link somewhere for all the rate increase info???

Just wondering because my bill isn't coming for another couple of weeks.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Click for full size
Here ya go ...


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to sbrook
Just incredible, I guess somebody has to pay for the losses Rogers has and will incur on Bills fiasco.

Not to mention overpaying for the Olympic games in conjunction with CTV.

Hasn't anyone told the wunderkind at Robbers that we are in a deep recession and prices increases are NOT welcome?


ButtSore

@rogers.com
Actually, I would like to thank Rogers for the rate increase.
After seeing that my monthly total was going to go up $14 I decided to downgrade some of my services.

After dropping down to express and dumping tv channels that I never watch, the net result is that I'll be spending $20 less each month. I'll spend my new found savings somewhere else, thank you.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
said by ButtSore :

Actually, I would like to thank Rogers for the rate increase.
After seeing that my monthly total was going to go up $14 I decided to downgrade some of my services.

After dropping down to express and dumping tv channels that I never watch, the net result is that I'll be spending $20 less each month. I'll spend my new found savings somewhere else, thank you.

That's a step in the right direction, but I've done better than that! I cancelled Rogers cable TV entirely and subscribe only to the Internet service. I saved around $86 a month over what I was paying before. I now get my TV in clear uncompressed high definition from Wolfie's Cable System I'm in north Toronto and with no effort at all I can get all the U.S. networks in high-definition, a bunch of independent stations, and of course everything in the Toronto area, forever, for free, with this little gem which cost me less than a single month of the Rogers crap I was paying for... no stupid Rogers HD box, and ATSC digital tuners provide a channel guide and program information...



--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
reply to sbrook
So...we're getting more bandwidth right? I mean I've been getting giganews for 3 years now and I pay $12/mo for it, and I just went from 25 to 35gb/mo for nothing.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
Arghhhh!!!! You've given in to Rogers and many of the other ISP's confusing "download limits" with "bandwidth"!! Rogers goes out of their way to define "bandwidth" -- completely incorrectly -- as "the amount of stuff you download"! The term "bandwidth" originated as an engineering term meaning the information-carrying capacity -- or "width" -- of the frequency band you were using for communication. For digital lines it amounts to the same thing as "speed", or Kbps.

This is not good for Robbers because real bandwidth -- i.e.- speed -- is what they're advertising, but they can't afford to provide it. So the obvious solution is to impose an artificial cap on the accumulated download amount per month, and redefine the language to call it "bandwidth", because, hey, everybody in telecom knows that you have to pay for "bandwidth".

George Orwell foresaw the concept in his novel "1984": change the meaning of a word, and you change the public perception of reality.
--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 recommendation

Welll .... not quite. Some history ...

Originally Bandwidth was an analogue communications term meaning simply the size of a communications channel in Hz. It was, in essence, the Spectral bandwidth ... the amount of frequency spectrum the signal used. For example, an AM radio signal used approximately 10kHz bandwidth, an FM signal used approximately 30kHz and a TV signal approximately 6MHz

Then along came data communications ... the simplest being Morse Code ... which when sent by radio, had a Spectral bandwidth of 0 ... either the radio carrier was on or off. But the rate of transmission of information sent by Morse Code was measured in Words Per Minute (WPM). Words were considered as 5 character units.

Turning a radio transmitter's carrier on and off at up to about 30 words per minute is OK for lower powered transmitters, but it becomes a technical challenge for higher power and faster speed. So, along came the modem ... where you assign two tones of an AM radio signal for "on" and "off", or two frequencies of an FM radio signal (known as Frequency Shift Keying FSK). Now it became a case of "How fast can we send data down such a radio channel?"

It was fairly straight forward originally to determine how much data could be sent ... determine the amount of spectral bandwidth you care to use and that determines the amount of data you can send. 1Hz bandwidth generally represented 1 bit/second (not quite, but close enough) Hence the term bandwidth was borrowed from the analogue spectral bandwidth to the data rate of a comms channel.

Later techniques were developed to send more than 1 bit/second per hertz of bandwidth by a number of new modulation techniques based on complex equations of frequency and phase shifting (remember FSK ... that's one form of modulation) So, with new modulation techniques, data bandwidth (the rate you can get data through a channel) dissociated itself from communications spectral bandwidth.

Now a channel's bandwidth (i.e. its data rate) also determines the maximum amount of data you can get through a channel. So the term bandwidth can be expressed in a multitude of different units ... say 1.5 Mbps symmetrical, or say 100 gigabytes per month. Same thing, but different.

Well, now we get to the confusion ... The "limited" channel ... like most broadband ISPs now. The channel can transfer nearly a TB per month, but the ISP limits you to 60GB per month. OK, the channel speed is say 10Mbps, if the channel was unlimited, we could say the bandwidth available is 1TB (per month) or 10Mbps. The data rate (speed) is 10Mbps. But take the limited channel ... the data rate is 10Mbps ... no change there. But the max data is now 60GB ... so in essence your bandwidth has been limited to 60GB (per month).

Assuming an unlimited data supply, looked at over a year, your speed is 60GB/month, hence your bandwidth is 60GB/month. But look at it over less than a month and your speed or bandwidth is 10Mbps.

So, it's not an incorrect use of bandwidth per se ... just confusing and depends on how you look at the picture.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
That sums it up pretty well.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to sbrook
I sense a semantic argument coming here!

To be clear, I understand your point exactly, but I can't say that I really agree. We can agree that in digital communications, "bandwidth" = "data rate". But any engineer would interpret that to be the communications capacity of the channel in real-time, which is a function of both analog spectral bandwidth and signal modulation technology. Indeed [he said, wading fully into the semantic argument!] my Encarta dictionary defines "bandwidth" as having two meanings -- the analog spectral bandwidth you refer to, and "the capacity of a communications channel, for example, a connection to the Internet, often measured in bits per second.

Your point, essentially, is that "bits per second" and "gigabytes per month" are just different measures of the same thing. I see that point, but I argue that the latter is contrived marketing-speak -- you could equally well say that you can describe channel capacity as "xennabytes per millennium", but is that a useful description of the technical attributes of a data channel?

In short, Rogers and the other ISP's refer to the 60Gb or whatever per month as "bandwidth" in a torturous stretch of semantics because their marketeers don't want to call it what it really is -- a quota.
--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 edit
I see that usage, not just ISPs but also from users. It's just such a grey area.

After all, the channel capacity of a cable internet connection, and hence bandwidth could be described as over 30 Mbps ... but we can't actually get that either because of limits imposed by the ISP. Our speed is also "quota-ed".

What I'm trying to point out is that the usage of the word is acceptable, if a bit misleading without some kind of description backing it up - like monthly bandwidth quota = 60GB/month, or maximum permitted bandwidth for this tier is 10Mbps and subject to a consumption quota ... etc.


copperalldaway

@dsl.bell.ca
reply to sbrook
LOL, just steal cable from robbers, just like I do. I have not piad for cable in the last 9 years.


Friendly Lurker

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
Last time rates went up I switched from Extreme to Express. What saves their bacon is the 15% discount even though I technically only qualify for 5% (I think). If they remove that then the internet goes and I'm switching to the same community service one of my sons uses in his home. It's a slower phone modem service but it only costs $72 a year and it's very reliable. He finds it perfect for browsing and checking mail etc.. and he doesn't miss the faster hookup he had at home. My wife wants to keep our cable bundle (vip/tmn/mpix/time shift/most specialty channels) so I can't change it this time. In the big picture, if it was up to me I'd keep the internet and drop the cable tv.

We were thinking of upgrading to HD boxes since we've been looking to buy a couple of 46" to 52" HD sets. She's deferred the decision to me so I've decided to put that on hold even though the money's been in the bank since last year and ready to be spent. I don't want to give any more to Rogers and I can't see using new HD sets just to watch a bad SD digital signal. It's barely passable on our 2 480i (480p for dvd) 32" 4:3 format sets so I can't imagine how bad it would look on a 52" stretched to wide-screen. Besides I've got a DIY 4:3 format lcd projector when I want to see big screen tv at night.

In general we expect prices go up but it's never based on cost of living increases of about 2% to 2.5% that many people receive. What do these people not understand about holding the line? Last year my property taxes were announced at under 5% but ended up much higher and it's the same this year. My condo fees went up 10% last year but then we paid another special charge of $350 for excess snow removal cost. This year it's a 6% increase. Bell raised their rates already last summer. In addition to the Bell home service I had a Bell pay as you go cell phone so I dropped it and saved $10 plus tax a month to offset their increase. My wife still has a pay as you go Fido so I share that one on the rare occasion I need one. It's the same with every service and it goes on and on and on. Everybody wants a bigger chunk of a smaller money pie so eventually something has to give. Rogers is near the top of items to give up, it's a "nice to have" thing but not an absolute necessity. They need to be careful that they don't price themselves out of people's entertainment budget.

Watch for big specials if they start losing customers but those like us who are already on the hook never benefit. That's how they reward their long term customers and it's backwards. They should do like my car insurance company which gives me discounts for long term loyalty. This causes the special chasers and jumpers pay more up front and rewards those who stick with the company over the long haul.


Mikerophone

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
Next time you call Rogers, try asking them to answer a few simple questions:

(Do remember to be polite as the person on the phone is a human just like you and is only trying to do their job)

How fast of an internet speed are you providing me with.?
For this I will use the example of Extreme, so they'll tell you "10 Megs per second."

Great you say, and ask the Rogers representative to do a little math with you... see if they have a calculator handy...

hmmm 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 24 hours x 30 days... that's 2592000 seconds in a month!
now at 10 Megs per second x 2592000 seconds is 25920000 Megs is 25312.5 Gigabytes is wow! 24.71923828125 Terabytes!!!

I can download 25 Terabytes a month?

The person on the phone (and of course there will be many that you will have to talk to) will tell you about the "bandwidth cap" (95 Gigabytes for Extreme)

Oh, ok you say...
so, 95 Gigabytes = 97280 Megabytes
at 10 Megs per second...
divide by 10 = 9728 seconds
divide by 60 =162.1333 mins
Thats about 2.7 hours!!!

It will only take me 2.7 hours to download 95 Gigabytes at 10 Megs per second...

-The person on the phone will give you some explanation as to why that would never happen. Most likely an uneducated answer.

Then why are you selling me something then telling me I can't use it?
That's kind of like saying I have 1 minute to make a crystal clear sounding phone call but I can only say 3 words, isn't it?

Ok, then lets see...
Extreme will cost me $54.99 a month right?
so that's about $1.83 a day or about 8 cents an hour...
2.7 hours times 8 cents... thats about 22 cents

So you're selling me a service of 10 Megs per second at $55 per month but your limiting me to use only 22 cents worth of the service at 95 Gigs per month???

But I thought it was "all ways on, unlimited, extreme high speed internet" ???

Why am I paying more for the Extreme service?

Why do I need 9 email addresses?

Is the rise in price due to the fact that the infrastructure that you built for so called "high speed internet" isn't living up to the rise in demand of higher content websites? Did your company not foresee this?

So now I am being charged more for even less service?

Can I speak to your supervisor?

Repeat... have fun!

If you ever call in about your wireless service, ask them to explain the difference between unlimited internet usage on your phone but having a data plan with a limit.

It's about time the CRTC stepped up to the plate and took Rogers down for making up the rules and changing the definitions as they go along. More and more people need to complain and say and do something about it.
Stop being sheep!
Why is it that when I deal with Rogers, it's more like dealing with Lawyers and definitions and terms?

Where are the days when my bills were the same every month and I just payed them instead of having to waste all my time keeping up on how my service provider(s) were screwing me?

I have to stop here because every time I see, hear, read and now write anything about Rogers I get furious.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to copperalldaway
said by copperalldaway :

LOL, just steal cable from robbers, just like I do. I have not piad for cable in the last 9 years.
And this is the reason that precious few digital channels are not encrypted.


copperalldaway

@dsl.bell.ca
I called rogers in 2000 to cancel my cable, the only thing they canceled was my billing, to this day know one has come to my house to disconnect my cable. Oh ya and the cable ped is in my backyard so if they ever do disconnect it won't be a problem to connect it back up.


peteathome

@rogers.com
Dude. They do audit the boxes occasionally. I was getting premium channels for a number of years (for free), but was paying for basic. In October my cable suddenly reverted to basic. I checked the logs for the cable modem and sure enough there had been a disconnect/reconnect around 7:00 a.m...Oh well. I'm not about to crack open the pedestal or the greybox with a GTT7 and risk getting my ass sued. It's not worth it. I got what a I got for free. I'm happy. But, realize that eventually they'll audit your line, realize that the signal is not what it should be (since it's based on an analog wave form, how hard do you think it is if they're working in the area. They don't actually have to come to your house you know), and they'll disconnect. No explanation. And if they find you tampering, because they will check up on the box every couple of weeks for the next year you know, they'll just cut the service off (up the pole next time) totally and you'd have to pay big bucks to get it back online. Or face theft of service and a cop knocking on your door to take you to jail. Whatever I guess. Enjoy for free, but it will never last.

Without malice or anger.

Pete.


peteathome2

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
A friend was reading over my shoulder and reminded me. He said he believes that Rogers is now using IP based filters. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but, it would mean a disconnect of an installed filter would send a signal back to Rogers.
Who knows? Maybe it's true. Rogers tech would be able to confirm that. I'm not positive about the truth of that though.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to sbrook
As much as we don't LIKE the cable rate increases, theft of service (and that's what this is) is not the answer. Knowingly using your cable connection when you know you're not paying for it IS theft of service.

Now whether Rogers is installing intelligent filtering is questionable. It wouldn't make a lot of sense considering they're only a short time away from going all digital, and they can readily determine if there's been any line tampering from the signal history from the data from the boxes.


copperalldaway

@dsl.bell.ca
reply to sbrook
Audit my ass!! in the past 9 years I've seen my share of rogers tech/contractors knock at my door for access to the ped in my backyard and I've never been disconnected.


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON
reply to sbrook
Rogers is not using IP based filters... But it'd be a nice rumour to spread so you think the boogeyman is out there.


peteathome

@rogers.com
reply to copperalldaway
I used Rogers as my ISP for 10 years. Unhooked twice, and went with DSL, went back to Rogers. And they never clued in that I was getting premium channels. It was just a random fluke.
Here's the log...Believe it or not, it's up to you, I couldn't care less. It's not my ass on the line.

1970-01-01 00:00:10 3-Critical D003.0 DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
1970-01-01 00:00:32 3-Critical T001.0 SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire QAM/QPSK symbol timing
1970-01-01 00:00:17 3-Critical T002.0 SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC framing
1970-01-01 00:00:17 3-Critical T001.0 SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire QAM/QPSK symbol timing
1970-01-01 00:00:03 3-Critical T002.0 SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC framing
2008-10-31 18:12:45 3-Critical R004.0 Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 timeout
2008-10-31 18:12:45 3-Critical T002.0 SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC framing
2008-10-31 08:17:16 5-Warning D103.0 DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response

I did a search for IP based filters. I guess some companies use them, found a discussion on Red Flag deals regarding the issue, but no one's confirmed Rogers does. Again, I'm not positive they do, and as Sbrook said why would they if they can just check the signal history. It's shows up easy enough. A Rogers tech could tell if you're getting premium in 10 seconds. I guess it's just random chance. They do work in the area, look at some lines. A Rogers technician would know better. They're probably getting a chuckle out of this post. IP filters would put a crimp in unhooking them though wouldn't it?

Later,

~Pete.


notrogersfault

@rogers.com
reply to sbrook
Dont blame the effects of inflation on greedy businesses and rogers.

Blame the government and the Bank of Canada for printing and creating money out of thin air.