 CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | reply to digiblur
Re: [OK] Netflix Streaming Issue via xbox 360 You are looking at data throughput/Signal Strength at your location not on the node. The only place that you could actually see node utilization is on the CMTS. |
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 digiblurGot Sipura?Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | said by CoxTOC1:You are looking at data throughput/Signal Strength at your location not on the node. The only place that you could actually see node utilization is on the CMTS. Huh?
The 705mhz stream is the same 705mhz stream that is sent to my neighbors modem. Let's look at it this way. Say all the power is out in the area. My neighbor and I are the only people with battery backups on our cable modem and PCs. No one else in the node is up. So in theory the 705mhz stream should be 100% nulls. As soon as my neighbor starts downloading something I would see the data stream increase on the 705mhz carrier as the system is now sending his content out through the system.
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | First off this is getting massively off track, Second we use more than one frequency per node. Lastly the only place that you can actually see node utilization is from the CMTS. |
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digiblurGot Sipura?Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | said by CoxTOC1:First off this is getting massively off track, Second we use more than one frequency per node. Lastly the only place that you can actually see node utilization is from the CMTS. No prob... maybe node wasn't the terminology. I was meaning my network segment or "last-mile". I've always seen it on 705 for years and several other PC's in the neighborhood use the same 705. I should have worded it as my downstream channel is only 60%-75% congested.
It would be interesting to see what kind of numbers you guys see compared to what I see.
Back on topic... I assume the Cox users are stuck with this slow Netflix. I know if I was Cox I wouldn't want to fix it since I would want to push my Video on Demand stuff. But in the end... a typical user will fire up his XBox 360, get 1 bar of video all the time, bring the 360 to his neighbor's DSL connection, crank out 4 bars of video all the time, and jump up and down yelling "My cable modem sucks! Time to get DSL!"
In a few days I'm going to do just this to see if it makes a difference or not. But no way in hell would I change to AT&T just over some Netflix.
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Make your Sipura/PAP2 speak. »www.voipurize.com
SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com |
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 bbeesleyVIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:4 | said by digiblur: I know if I was Cox I wouldn't want to fix it since I would want to push my Video on Demand stuff. That just isn't part of the Cox culture and we would not behave that way. Netflix is a valid use of the service that you as a customer are paying for.
If there is something in our network causing the issue, we will fix it. |
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digiblurGot Sipura?Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | said by bbeesley:said by digiblur: I know if I was Cox I wouldn't want to fix it since I would want to push my Video on Demand stuff. That just isn't part of the Cox culture and we would not behave that way. Netflix is a valid use of the service that you as a customer are paying for. If there is something in our network causing the issue, we will fix it. I know...trust me I love my Cox internet service! You guys are top notch on support. I had some really weird issues in this neighborhood with ingress from a high power CB user when the upstream channel was in the CB band...after a lot of work on your side it was fixed. This issue really isn't with you guys, it looks to be farther down the pipe. Even when I do get one bar of video quality. I can fire up a download from Microsoft or some other large pipe and max out my download tier with no issues.
A neighbor has the 6 megabit DSL a few houses down...and another friend with Cox in the next town (same market but I'm sure a different node). I'm going to test those pretty soon I'll post back my results.
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Make your Sipura/PAP2 speak. »www.voipurize.com
SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com |
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | reply to digiblur
If it was a cox issue then we would be more than glad to fix it. However as it's been pointed out we are not seeing any issues on the cox network at all. You are getting a 20ms response time all the way through the level3 network. It not until level3 hands off to qwest (who provide the connectivity for netflix) that we start seeing a 40~50ms jump. Now that could just be a cross country transit that's causing that big of a jump but it still seems a bit high to me (Would expect to see a 20~30ms jump). It also looks like 205.171.14.6 was so busy that it did not initially respond (hop 10). That also could be a indication of potential network congestion at that location. In this case because netflix buys bandwidth from Qwest and they would be in a much better position to complain to Qwest.
Now as far as it being faster on AT&T, I bet that if you do a trace you'll find that it's taking a different route to get their. AT&T may have a direct peering relationship with Qwest and/or have a peering point that is closer to netflix. |
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| reply to bbeesley
I'm having the same problem. I know this issue is related to Cox's network because when I run the traceroute (to either agmoviecontrol.netflix.com or moviecontrol.netflix.com) on Time Warner's connection (TWC) there isn't a single hop that times out. I've called Cox several times in the last four days and they can't seem to get me to someone who can resolve the issue with the information I am providing. Very Frustrating. In early Dec 08 everything worked fine. Obviously something changed on Cox's side (around 2-4 weeks ago). I have the biggest package they offer. |
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | Could you post both of those traces please? |
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| TWC traceroute:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms gi0-0-410.usmert01.wan.wtoffshore.net [10.2.20.1
]
2 12 ms 11 ms 12 ms 64-129-99-9.static.twtelecom.net [64.129.99.9]
3 18 ms 20 ms 18 ms 204-57-118-38.static.twtelecom.net [204.57.118.3
8]
4 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 64-129-158-1.static.twtelecom.net [64.129.158.1]
5 26 ms 26 ms 26 ms peer-01-so-1-0-0-0.dlfw.twtelecom.net [66.192.24
6.53]
6 68 ms 69 ms 69 ms svl-core-02.inet.qwest.net [67.14.12.54]
7 70 ms 69 ms 69 ms svc-cntr-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.14.6]
8 69 ms 70 ms 72 ms 66.77.104.138
9 73 ms 75 ms 72 ms 63.236.56.164
10 71 ms 73 ms 69 ms agmoviecontrol.netflix.com [208.75.76.32]
Not one hop with a request timed out. |
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 CoxTech1VIP
join:2002-04-25
Chesapeake, VA
kudos:65 | When comparing this trace route with one from Cox provided above it would appear that there is some kind of issue between Level3 and Qwest perhaps. |
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| Just got off the phone with Cox and the rep agrees the actual problem exist somewhere in the hand-off from Cox to Qwest. My question is who is responsible for resolving it. I am only able to provide Cox customer support with this info because I have a degree in Networking. The average joe would simply blame Cox. I just like everyone one else on this thread wants this issue resolved. Where do we go from here? And being that I nor anyone else on this thread have a subscription to Qwest networks, how do we obtain support? A Cox tech is coming out to check my and I will take the time to explain in detail again (for the 10th time)hopefully he/she has access to a knowledge and powerful supervisor. |
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| reply to CoxTech1
Do you think static configuring another DNS in the router would resolve the issue? Say maybe Time Warner's primary DNS or Verizon? |
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bbeesleyVIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:4 | reply to Evil Mookie
said by Evil Mookie :
Not one hop with a request timed out.
Keep in mind that request timed out at one hop and a return value from the next hop indicates ICMP deprioritization, not actual loss
if the loss was real, the next hop would show timed out or high return times since the packets have to go through the reportedly "lossy hop" to get to back to you
For those who have done side by side comparisons of Cox vs some other provider - can we have posted examples of both traces so we can see what is different
the more data we have, the easier it will be to narrow this down |
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boyfly
join:2009-01-14
Wichita, KS | reply to CoxTOC1
said by CoxTOC1:Now as far as it being faster on AT&T, I bet that if you do a trace you'll find that it's taking a different route to get their. AT&T may have a direct peering relationship with Qwest and/or have a peering point that is closer to netflix. Is it possible for Cox to enter into some type of relationship like you assume AT&T has? It sure would be nice if Cox would be proactive about these kinds of things, ensuring their customers are able to utilize new services and technologies as they come out. That would make Cox much more valuable in my opinion.
Here are two traces to the Netflix server.
Home (Cox):
Tracing route to agmoviecontrol.netflix.com [208.75.76.32]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 13 ms 18 ms 14 ms ip68-102-0-1.ks.ok.cox.net [68.102.0.1]
3 15 ms 26 ms 18 ms wichcmta01.ks.ks.cox.net [68.103.127.193]
4 27 ms 29 ms 26 ms kscydsrj02-ae2.rd.ks.cox.net [70.183.71.105]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 26 ms 28 ms 27 ms mtc3dsrj01-ge-100.0.rd.ok.cox.net [68.1.0.113]
8 30 ms 33 ms 32 ms so-6-0-2.edge4.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.78.232.1]
9 62 ms 57 ms 57 ms ae-1-53.edge3.Chicago3.Level3.net [4.68.101.84]
10 65 ms 59 ms 73 ms chp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [63.146.27.21]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 91 ms 91 ms 91 ms svc-cntr-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.14.6]
13 75 ms 75 ms 80 ms 66.77.104.138
14 83 ms 76 ms 76 ms 63.236.56.164
15 80 ms 79 ms 77 ms agmoviecontrol.netflix.com [208.75.76.32]
Work (unkown ISP):
Tracing route to agmoviecontrol.netflix.com [208.75.76.32]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 167.186.156.3
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 167.186.254.53
3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 167.186.254.226
4 11 ms 13 ms 12 ms 10.244.254.18
5 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms 10.244.254.173
6 52 ms 52 ms 50 ms 10.244.17.1
7 48 ms 49 ms 48 ms 172.30.254.34
8 45 ms 46 ms 46 ms 172.30.255.10
9 45 ms 53 ms 50 ms 20.128.24.2
10 45 ms 53 ms 45 ms 20.137.75.98
11 61 ms 62 ms 57 ms so-3-1-0.595.ar2.BOS1.gblx.net [208.49.125.97]
12 58 ms 55 ms 58 ms te6-1-10G.ar5.NYC1.gblx.net [67.17.110.254]
13 51 ms 58 ms 53 ms jfk-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [63.146.26.225]
14 58 ms 59 ms 57 ms jfk-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.30.1]
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 128 ms 126 ms 126 ms svc-cntr-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.14.6]
17 127 ms 127 ms 129 ms 66.77.104.138
18 125 ms 128 ms 131 ms 63.236.56.164
19 130 ms 130 ms 124 ms agmoviecontrol.netflix.com [208.75.76.32] |
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | reply to Evil Mookie
said by Evil Mookie :
Just got off the phone with Cox and the rep agrees the actual problem exist somewhere in the hand-off from Cox to Qwest. My question is who is responsible for resolving it. I am only able to provide Cox customer support with this info because I have a degree in Networking. The average joe would simply blame Cox. I just like everyone one else on this thread wants this issue resolved. Where do we go from here? And being that I nor anyone else on this thread have a subscription to Qwest networks, how do we obtain support? A Cox tech is coming out to check my and I will take the time to explain in detail again (for the 10th time)hopefully he/she has access to a knowledge and powerful supervisor.
Cox is not handing of to Qwest, Level3 is. As we have stated multiple times you need to address this with Netflix as they are in the best position to resolve this issue. Honestly unless you are having other issues a field tech will not be able to resolve this issue for you. |
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | reply to Evil Mookie
said by Evil Mookie :
Do you think static configuring another DNS in the router would resolve the issue? Say maybe Time Warner's primary DNS or Verizon?
Changing DNS servers would not resolve this issue. |
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CoxTOC1
join:2007-05-15
Newport News, VA
kudos:9 | reply to boyfly
said by boyfly:Is it possible for Cox to enter into some type of relationship like you assume AT&T has? It sure would be nice if Cox would be proactive about these kinds of things, ensuring their customers are able to utilize new services and technologies as they come out. That would make Cox much more valuable in my opinion. Such things are way above my paygrade, however I do know that we are constantly evaluating peering partnerships. Unfortunately peering partnerships are fairly complex issues and can take a while to hammer out. |
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| reply to CoxTOC1
I have contacted Netflix and they say it's your problem. Now knowing what I know now it's a very odd situation. Again I have a much better understanding of how this all works compared to the average joe. If Netflix is in denial and you guys are in denial over who responsible for fixing it then my trust and faith in both of your services has been stirred. A great company would go that extra mile to resolve the issue and satisfy the customer. Not play the blame game. Is any of this making sense or am I stuck in a time warp back when the customer is right existed? |
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boyfly
join:2009-01-14
Wichita, KS | reply to CoxTOC1
said by CoxTOC1:said by boyfly:Is it possible for Cox to enter into some type of relationship like you assume AT&T has? Such things are way above my paygrade, however I do know that we are constantly evaluating peering partnerships. Unfortunately peering partnerships are fairly complex issues and can take a while to hammer out. Understood. Given your knowledge and expertise added to the data available in this thread coming from actual users, do you think the only thing that Cox could do to fix this problem is to create a new peering partnership? And if so, is there a way that we, your customers, can report our problems to the individuals who would be able to make that happen?
I have great hope for the future of media being streamed over the internet like Netflix is doing. Many OEMs are starting to produce hardware (namely TVs) that are capable of doing this out of the box. I think the situation is only going to worsen if these issues are not ironed out ASAP. I hope Cox chooses to continue its pursuit of industry leadership by helping push new tech. |
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