deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE | reply to joe01880
Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems
Thanks!
And thanks to everyone for the help, as always! |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| said by deblin  :Thanks! And thanks to everyone for the help, as always! Good luck and GO EAGLES
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | reply to joe01880
said by joe01880 :Something i am confused about is the talk about Tivo signal changing, as one person said going from 100 to 63 to 0, bouncing all over the place. With FiOS signal being a constant (or pretty close) what signal is bouncing around? This is what the TiVo shows when it is overpowered by the signal.
The TiVo's signal meter only goes up to 100. If you exceed that by more than a little, it starts jumping around between 0-100, 50-100, or 80-100. The stronger your signal [beyond what the TiVo can take], the greater the variation.
For FiOS installers, it's generally recommended to start with -4dB to -6dB for the TiVo (as reported by their signal meter). That may require 10-15dB or more in attenuation. What's "spec" for the Motorola DVRs is not "spec" for TiVo, at least on Verizon's system. Some speculate this is due to built-in amplification on the TiVo.
I have 18dB attenuation on my TiVo and the signal levels on most channels are still reported in the low to mid 90s. I have one of the original Motorola 610 ONTs. |
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ramslt8
join:2007-12-07
Lutz, FL | reply to deblin
The recommended signal level per our Verizon install info for a TIVO should be around -15db |
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joe01880
join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to KenAF
said by KenAF :said by joe01880 :Something i am confused about is the talk about Tivo signal changing, as one person said going from 100 to 63 to 0, bouncing all over the place. With FiOS signal being a constant (or pretty close) what signal is bouncing around? This is what the TiVo shows when it is overpowered by the signal. Thank you! |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to deblin
I have seen skipping on FOX during American Idol on 2 different cable providers local. I think it may be the digital end of the channel source reaching some kind of bandwidth limit from all the viewers or something. I don't think it's verizon related.
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20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Well I had Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune HD on earlier, and still had pixelation with a 6 dB attenuator.
And now Smarter than a 5th grader on FOX is on and it's pixelating like crazy.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE | And it's still doing it with a 3 dB attenuator too. |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| I'm trying a 3 and 6 together (9 for the math impaired  )
According to the tech, 8 dB failed her test, but I'm able to see at least one channel just fine. hmm.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| said by deblin :I'm trying a 3 and 6 together (9 for the math impaired ) According to the tech, 8 dB failed her test, but I'm able to see at least one channel just fine. hmm. The tech is testing for Motorola levels, not TIVO - as others have stated in this thread. TIVO apparently has a front end amplifier that is going into overload on the FiOS signal and requires much more attenuation than the Motorola boxes.
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| I understand...but 9 dB didn't help either. I've got both 6s in there now for 12. Seems ok so far, but it's intermittent so who knows.
I know going from 9 to 12 seems like a lot, but I guess it's not that big a difference.
1/9 => 1/12 is .11111 to .08333
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL | reply to deblin
db is logarithmic not linear
3db is cutting the signal in half |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Ah right. Ok, so what am I doing with 12 dB?
Am I right that the "RS Uncorrected" causes pixelation/audio dropouts/etc, but "RS Corrected" are ok? E.g. a fixed checksum mismatch?
I'm not able to watch each channel to look for the pixelation. So I was thinking of tuning each channel for 5-10 mins each and keeping an eye on the RS Uncorrected #.
Currently, the 2 tuners are on 511 and 514 and there are ~3000 corrected on tuner 0 (ch 511) and 122 on tuner 1 (channel 514). Uncorrected is 0 on both.
Weird, the channels are only 6 Mhz away but one is taking a ton more errors (even if they are corrected).
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| The first tuner is definitely taking a ton more errors. Like 50/second sometimes pretty regularly.
After 10-15 minutes, tops, the first tuner had taken 15000 "corrected" RS, though luckily still 0 uncorrected. The other tuner had only taken like 250 corrected RS (and 0 uncorrected).
Seems odd...
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Tuner 1 was on channel 516 (507000 KHz) for a few hours and has over 50,000 "RS uncorrected" now. And over a million "RS corrected".
The other tuner was on 680 (SCIFIHD) for the last ~3+ hours and has 0 "RS uncorrected" and 18 "RS corrected".
Is my Tivo dying or what? 
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | said by deblin :Tuner 1 was on channel 516 (507000 KHz) for a few hours and has over 50,000 "RS uncorrected" now. And over a million "RS corrected". The other tuner was on 680 (SCIFIHD) for the last ~3+ hours and has 0 "RS uncorrected" and 18 "RS corrected". Is my Tivo dying or what? What does TiVo report your signal level at now?
I would go a little higher. Maybe 15dB attenuation?
Attenuation doesn't solve the problem for everyone. Nobody really knows why. It's always possible that Verizon did something on their end (like an equipment replacement) that causes problems for the TiVo but not necessarily the Motorola DVR.
You know your TiVo's hard drive is dying when you get pixelization, lost frames, and dropouts without the errors. A failing hard drive doesn't cause signal errors, though, and such large numbers of signal errors always cause picture problems. |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
1 edit | Ok so at least I know it's not the hdd failing.
The reported signal strength from the Tivo on the first tuner is toggling between 77 and 81, and 86, though more so between 77 and 81.
Still too hot?
*edit* that was for the problematic channel (514) from last night that took so many errors.
On 680 (SCIFIHD) the tuner is hovering between 90 and 86 signal strength. |
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JeepMatt
Delaware Fios
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
·Verizon FIOS
| Deb-
Sorry to hear you're still having problems. Honestly, back during my first tour with FIOS TV, I couldn't take the Tivo issues anymore - and it was on Ebay the next day. 
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!" |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Having had to deal with sub-par DVRs, I'm not going to ditch the Tivo unless I absolutely have no other recourse :P
So anyone know what the signal quality should be when the proper attenuation is in place? Should I be looking for a MAX of X for all the channels I watch then?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
1 edit | reply to KenAF
Hmm I've seen the signal quality hit as high as 90 on the 514 channel, though rarely.
Very few RS corrected (the show isn't HD on that channel at the moment, does that matter?) and 0 uncorrected...could be the temps are going up today? Although not really, it's only 15 outside haha
So am I right that 15 dB of attenuation knocks the signal down by a factor of over 31? 
A = 10*logb10(Pin/Pout)
Is the formula I found that seems to ring a bell from college. 
15 = 10*logb10(x)
(15/10) = logb10(x)
10^(15/10) = x
31.6227... = x
That seems insane, but it's still tuning channels... |
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