[TIVO] Signal Quality problems in Verizon FIOS TV http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21743097 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:10:03 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:10:03 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21759336 KenAF :
said by deblin See Profile :

There is definitely a difference between the 1st and 2nd tuners.
The signal levels on the two tuners can differ slightly. You can confirm this by tuning a channel on one tuner, looking at the signal level, and then tuning that same channel on the other tuner and comparing the signal level. On my TiVo there is a slight difference.

It is possible that you've applied just barely enough attenuation for one tuner and therefore not quite enough for the other.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21759336 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:09:07 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21759072 HenryFarpolo : Deblin, This is the process I followed when I had the same problem you are having. It worked and I have not had a problem since. You may not have to start as high as 20db, but it doesn't hurt. This was posted on the TIVO forum;

Steps to Fix
1. Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.

»www.smarthome.com/7800.html

2. Find a channel with pixelization.

3. Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.

Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.

4. Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.

Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.

5. Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. Some require as much as -20dB. I would start with -20dB and work your way down.

Screw one -20dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.

6. Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

7. If not, or you aren't getting a picture, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

8. If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

9. If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -10dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

10. If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -6dB attenuator.

11. By now, the problem should be fixed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21759072 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:20:06 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758899 toups : Could be a bad connection. I've had specific channels drop out when the coax connector was not well connected. What happens is that the signal is reflected from a poor connection and can set up a standing wave pattern. Hence, only certain specific channels may be affected.

I've run into this problem when I made some cables using the screw on type-F connectors that then subsequently were pulled loose.

Try checking all of the coax connections to see that the cable is not loose.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758899 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:39:49 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758159 deblin : I think the signal problems also seem to be frequency specific. E.g. the broadcast channels in the ~500-ish MHz range seem to be the worst.

Even with this 15 dB attenuation on the coax, I'm seeing 86-90 signal strength and 0 "RS corrected". This is on channel 551 @ 717 MHz.

Perhaps there's just some interference being induced in my house somehow on the 500-600 MHz range, which is being amplified by the tivo causing the problems? Would the frequency range be related to the temperatures?

Edit: likewise, channel 550 (135 MHz) seems fine. Signal strength 77 almost constantly with very little fluctuation occasionally up to 81. Again, zero RS corrected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758159 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:01:42 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758107 deblin : Thanks for the info. I'll have to check the splitter in the basement.

As we have only one other TV, I"m thinking of disconnecting the other runs to other parts of the house and capping those unused ports with F-terminators to cut down the noise.

As I understand this stuff, if the signal is very hot, you're amplifying noise along with the "good" signal. So if you amplify too much, you can end up amplifying the noise. So perhaps I have more noise now for some reason and the internal amplification by the S3 Tivo is causing the pixelation. By attenuating, I bump the noise (and the good parts of the signal down) and allow the Tivo to amplify and do its error correction. Just a theory I guess...
--
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758107 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:49:20 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758089 wfdavis : Hi Deblin,
I thought I would jump in here and add my 2 cents for what it's worth. I to started have major pixlation and loss of sound on channel 681 A&E HD with my Tivo series 3 about 3 weeks ago. It started intermittently and slowly got worse. The signal was fluctuating 60 to 80 and the SNR was as low as 29. At that point the channel was unwatchable. Long story short I finally checked all the cable connections by grabbing them and making sure everything was tight from the 8 port VZ splitter to my TV and whola! Problem solved. Signal up 80-95 and SNR 33-35. No pixelation. The connector at the 8 port splitter had a slight short. Like everyone says the Tivo 3 is very sensitive to signal strength.

Hope this helps
Wfdavis]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758089 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:45:57 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758075 deblin : There is definitely a difference between the 1st and 2nd tuners.

I tuned 510 on the 2nd tuner for 180 seconds and there were 110 "RS corrected".

Doing the same for the 1st tuner resulted in 377.

Granted, this is a short sample time, but I've noticed this trend as I've been watching these RS numbers for both tuners.

Perhaps the signals strength is higher for tuner1 due to the way the signal is split internally in the Tivo. So the attenuation I'm doing is having less of an effect on the first tuner?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21758075 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:43:47 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757886 deblin : Hmm I've seen the signal quality hit as high as 90 on the 514 channel, though rarely.

Very few RS corrected (the show isn't HD on that channel at the moment, does that matter?) and 0 uncorrected...could be the temps are going up today? Although not really, it's only 15 outside haha

So am I right that 15 dB of attenuation knocks the signal down by a factor of over 31? :o

A = 10*logb10(Pin/Pout)

Is the formula I found that seems to ring a bell from college. :)

15 = 10*logb10(x)

(15/10) = logb10(x)

10^(15/10) = x

31.6227... = x

That seems insane, but it's still tuning channels...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757886 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:53:41 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757857 deblin : Having had to deal with sub-par DVRs, I'm not going to ditch the Tivo unless I absolutely have no other recourse :P

So anyone know what the signal quality should be when the proper attenuation is in place? Should I be looking for a MAX of X for all the channels I watch then?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757857 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:44:31 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757851 JeepMatt : Deb-
Sorry to hear you're still having problems. Honestly, back during my first tour with FIOS TV, I couldn't take the Tivo issues anymore - and it was on Ebay the next day. :p
--
"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757851 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:43:04 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757843 deblin : Ok so at least I know it's not the hdd failing.

The reported signal strength from the Tivo on the first tuner is toggling between 77 and 81, and 86, though more so between 77 and 81.

Still too hot?

*edit* that was for the problematic channel (514) from last night that took so many errors.

On 680 (SCIFIHD) the tuner is hovering between 90 and 86 signal strength.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21757843 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:41:21 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21756991 KenAF :
said by deblin See Profile :

Tuner 1 was on channel 516 (507000 KHz) for a few hours and has over 50,000 "RS uncorrected" now. :( And over a million "RS corrected".

The other tuner was on 680 (SCIFIHD) for the last ~3+ hours and has 0 "RS uncorrected" and 18 "RS corrected".

Is my Tivo dying or what? :mad:
What does TiVo report your signal level at now?

I would go a little higher. Maybe 15dB attenuation?

Attenuation doesn't solve the problem for everyone. Nobody really knows why. It's always possible that Verizon did something on their end (like an equipment replacement) that causes problems for the TiVo but not necessarily the Motorola DVR.

You know your TiVo's hard drive is dying when you get pixelization, lost frames, and dropouts without the errors. A failing hard drive doesn't cause signal errors, though, and such large numbers of signal errors always cause picture problems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21756991 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:58:36 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21756784 deblin : Tuner 1 was on channel 516 (507000 KHz) for a few hours and has over 50,000 "RS uncorrected" now. :( And over a million "RS corrected".

The other tuner was on 680 (SCIFIHD) for the last ~3+ hours and has 0 "RS uncorrected" and 18 "RS corrected".

Is my Tivo dying or what? :mad:
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21756784 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:28:12 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755860 deblin : The first tuner is definitely taking a ton more errors. Like 50/second sometimes pretty regularly.

After 10-15 minutes, tops, the first tuner had taken 15000 "corrected" RS, though luckily still 0 uncorrected. The other tuner had only taken like 250 corrected RS (and 0 uncorrected).

Seems odd...
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755860 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:28:00 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755801 deblin : Ah right. Ok, so what am I doing with 12 dB?

Am I right that the "RS Uncorrected" causes pixelation/audio dropouts/etc, but "RS Corrected" are ok? E.g. a fixed checksum mismatch?

I'm not able to watch each channel to look for the pixelation. So I was thinking of tuning each channel for 5-10 mins each and keeping an eye on the RS Uncorrected #.

Currently, the 2 tuners are on 511 and 514 and there are ~3000 corrected on tuner 0 (ch 511) and 122 on tuner 1 (channel 514). Uncorrected is 0 on both.

Weird, the channels are only 6 Mhz away but one is taking a ton more errors (even if they are corrected).
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755801 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:16:19 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755757 guppy_fish : db is logarithmic not linear

3db is cutting the signal in half]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755757 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:08:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755742 deblin : I understand...but 9 dB didn't help either. I've got both 6s in there now for 12. Seems ok so far, but it's intermittent so who knows.

I know going from 9 to 12 seems like a lot, but I guess it's not that big a difference.

1/9 => 1/12 is .11111 to .08333
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755742 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:05:43 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755731 keyboards :
said by deblin See Profile :

I'm trying a 3 and 6 together (9 for the math impaired :D)

According to the tech, 8 dB failed her test, but I'm able to see at least one channel just fine. hmm.
The tech is testing for Motorola levels, not TIVO - as others have stated in this thread. TIVO apparently has a front end amplifier that is going into overload on the FiOS signal and requires much more attenuation than the Motorola boxes.
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755731 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:03:26 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755647 deblin : I'm trying a 3 and 6 together (9 for the math impaired :D)

According to the tech, 8 dB failed her test, but I'm able to see at least one channel just fine. hmm.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755647 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:48:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755583 deblin : And it's still doing it with a 3 dB attenuator too. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755583 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:39:15 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755550 deblin : Well I had Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune HD on earlier, and still had pixelation with a 6 dB attenuator.

And now Smarter than a 5th grader on FOX is on and it's pixelating like crazy.

:(
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21755550 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:34:35 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754686 Vamp : I have seen skipping on FOX during American Idol on 2 different cable providers local. I think it may be the digital end of the channel source reaching some kind of bandwidth limit from all the viewers or something. I don't think it's verizon related.
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20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754686 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:01:11 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754594 joe01880 :
said by KenAF See Profile :

said by joe01880 See Profile :

Something i am confused about is the talk about Tivo signal changing, as one person said going from 100 to 63 to 0, bouncing all over the place.
With FiOS signal being a constant (or pretty close) what signal is bouncing around?
This is what the TiVo shows when it is overpowered by the signal.

Thank you!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754594 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:41:01 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754587 ramslt8 : The recommended signal level per our Verizon install info for a TIVO should be around -15db ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754587 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:39:51 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754160 KenAF :
said by joe01880 See Profile :

Something i am confused about is the talk about Tivo signal changing, as one person said going from 100 to 63 to 0, bouncing all over the place.
With FiOS signal being a constant (or pretty close) what signal is bouncing around?
This is what the TiVo shows when it is overpowered by the signal.

The TiVo's signal meter only goes up to 100. If you exceed that by more than a little, it starts jumping around between 0-100, 50-100, or 80-100. The stronger your signal [beyond what the TiVo can take], the greater the variation.

For FiOS installers, it's generally recommended to start with -4dB to -6dB for the TiVo (as reported by their signal meter). That may require 10-15dB or more in attenuation. What's "spec" for the Motorola DVRs is not "spec" for TiVo, at least on Verizon's system. Some speculate this is due to built-in amplification on the TiVo.

I have 18dB attenuation on my TiVo and the signal levels on most channels are still reported in the low to mid 90s. I have one of the original Motorola 610 ONTs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754160 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:20:53 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754061 keyboards :
said by deblin See Profile :

Thanks!

And thanks to everyone for the help, as always!
Good luck and GO EAGLES
--
REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21754061 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:05:16 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753846 deblin : Thanks!

And thanks to everyone for the help, as always!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753846 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:26:49 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753845 joe01880 :
said by deblin See Profile
I'll keep the 6dB on there for tonight and see if all the channels are ok tonight when it gets really cold.
Best of luck to you :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753845 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:26:04 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753837 deblin :
said by JeepMatt See Profile :

Wait, it's not Amy is it?
I think her name was Kelly? Really nice and helpful, and listened to what I had to say about the Tivo problems. She said (understandably) that they HATE trouble tickets for tivos :P And said she was glad I knew what I was doing with it, because she gets people who blame the cable cards and want THEM to navigate/etc the tivo. :)
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753837 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:25:09 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753832 deblin :
said by JeepMatt See Profile :

Wait,
Are you telling me the tech was at your house within an hour of your call??

Damn - the DE staff rocks!

Wait, it's not Amy is it?
Nope...withing 30 minutes!. I ran out to grab a coffee, and she called and I had to turn around to come back to meet her here! lol!

Ok, so she just left. She said my signal was "+3" when she got there, well within their spec (-5 to +5). She tried a 8 dB attenuator and her test "failed" at that point. It passed with a 6 dB attenuator, so I'm keeping that on there for now. The RS uncorrected number seems to have stabilized a bit.

She left me with two each of 3 dB and 6 dB attenuators and said to give her cellphone a ring if the problem's still occurring tonight in the cold weather.

I'll keep the 6dB on there for tonight and see if all the channels are ok tonight when it gets really cold.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753832 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:23:44 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753804 joe01880 :
said by deblin See Profile :

Well, she ran a full diagnostic and it comes up clean, but she's going out to get some attenuators... :/

She also said that the signal is NOT too hot...
Im sure she is a good FiOS tech, but maybe not a so good Tivo tech.
Your FiOS signal may not be to hot for FiOS and or a FiOS STB but from what i have read Tivo's have a built in signal amplifier which could make the finale signal processed by the Tivo to hot and causing your problems..but i dont know nothing about this stuff.

Edit:

Something i am confused about is the talk about Tivo signal changing, as one person said going from 100 to 63 to 0, bouncing all over the place.
With FiOS signal being a constant (or pretty close) what signal is bouncing around?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753804 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:17:26 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753735 JeepMatt : Wait,
Are you telling me the tech was at your house within an hour of your call??

Damn - the DE staff rocks!

Wait, it's not Amy is it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753735 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:03:04 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753720 deblin : Well, she ran a full diagnostic and it comes up clean, but she's going out to get some attenuators... :/

She also said that the signal is NOT too hot...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753720 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:00:42 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753537 deblin : Ok, luckily they are able to send a FiOS tech today between now and 8pm!

So what do I tell the tech to make sure he does the right thing? If he sees the signal quality and SNR dropping (fluctuating), won't he be tempted to amplify the signal, which would just make things worse? How do I get across to this guy (if he hasn't any experience with the S3 Tivo or TivoHD) that it's an attenuation problem?
--
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753537 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:33:32 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753397 toups : Well, this is worth a try. Buy these 68 ohm resistors (75 ohms would be better but not available. Close enough to be an improvement.) »www.radioshack.com/product/index···=2062314
and insert one end of the wire from the resistor into the center hole for the (shorten as necessary). Wrap the other end of the resitor around the threaded portion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753397 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:15:03 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753315 deblin : So a splitter as a temporary solution to drop the signal will only work if all the unused (be it 1 for a 2:1, 3 for a 4:1 etc) connectors are terminated? :huh:

I'm in the same boat then...can't get these terminators locally, have to order online. Same with the attenuators. Sigh.

Guess I'll watch the Eagles game in SD. :uhh:
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753315 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:01:03 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753298 toups : Couldn't find them in their catalog. Here is an example of what you are looking for »www.prosatellitesupply.com/f_terminator.htm

Some web reports state that you might be able to find them in some Radio Shack stores.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753298 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:56:56 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753084 deblin : Do they sell these terminators at somewhere like radio shack?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21753084 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:18:11 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21752162 deblin : I took a quick ride over to Middletown Electronics (says Radioshack, but I think it's its own entity now).

Anyway, do you know of any stores to try calling in the Newark area? Or I guess even Wilmington.

Thanks man!
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21752162 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:45:27 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751837 deblin : They do Saturday tech calls? Sweet!

As I was writing this, I saw some pixelation on Fox, and I'm seeing it now on channel 514 now. So the issue IS still there, so disregard :(

Guess I know what I'm doing with my lunch break today! Need to find me some attenuator pads!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751837 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:51:56 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751832 JeepMatt : Deb-
You should try and get a tech out. DE usually has a quick turnaround. I'd just say you're losing reception (and the eagles are playing this week) and see how fast someone could be out.

You may be able to get someone there by tomorrow.
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751832 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:50:54 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751798 deblin : Does night vs. day matter? Because I'm tuning a few HD channels that would normally have this problem (fox, cbs, etc) this morning and they're fine. :(
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751798 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:45:09 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751496 toups :
said by keyboards See Profile :

said by deblin See Profile :

... do you know of any local vendors that would sell the attenuators? I REALLY want this fixed by the Eagles game Sunday...
If you can't find them locally, you can always use some cascaded splitters as a temporary fix. They are marked for their loss (attenuation) to each port - the more ports the more attenuation. Not meant to be a permanent fix, but it might help for the game and be simple if you have any "spare" splitters around - GO EAGLES.
But you need a terminator on the "unused" port. Basically a terminator is a 75 ohm resistor that shorts the center the shield.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751496 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:36:54 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751461 HenryFarpolo :
said by deblin See Profile :

Ugh. Every HD broadcast channel is fubar tonight. I just cancelled the recordings for The Office and Grey's Anatomy and set the SD channels to record.

JeepMatt See Profile do you know of any local vendors that would sell the attenuators? I REALLY want this fixed by the Eagles game Sunday...
If you know where the Verizon garage is located go there around noon or close to 5PM and find a tech or supervisor and ask them for some.

The other alternative is to drive around until you find a Verizon truck. That is hit or miss, because you need to find someone from the TV crew.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751461 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:28:21 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751380 keyboards :
said by deblin See Profile :

... do you know of any local vendors that would sell the attenuators? I REALLY want this fixed by the Eagles game Sunday...
If you can't find them locally, you can always use some cascaded splitters as a temporary fix. They are marked for their loss (attenuation) to each port - the more ports the more attenuation. Not meant to be a permanent fix, but it might help for the game and be simple if you have any "spare" splitters around - GO EAGLES.
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21751380 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:05:16 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21749366 deblin : Ugh. Every HD broadcast channel is fubar tonight. I just cancelled the recordings for The Office and Grey's Anatomy and set the SD channels to record.

JeepMatt See Profile do you know of any local vendors that would sell the attenuators? I REALLY want this fixed by the Eagles game Sunday...
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21749366 Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:04:11 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747533 anon : I had the same problems with my S3. Signal strength bouncing from 100 to 63 to 88 to 0 and so on. Checked all connections and cables and even did a direct run from the ONT to the TIVO to no avail. Verizon put a low pass filter at my ONT and it had no effect. They then moved it to the input of my TIVO with no effect. They then changed my 5 way splitter to an 8 way splitter with no effect. He then told me to call his supervisor and left. The supervisor worked it upstream with some engineering types but nothing changed. I then pulled out an old Radio Shack variable attenuator and got to where there was no signal then increased it until I just got one. The pixelization and signal bounce was still there. I viewed the same signal on my TIVO and a VZ box at the same time. The TIVO was pixelated and the VZ box was not....so here is my conclusion. The VZ signal causing all the RS Uncorrected errors is at times 'dirty'...when it is the TIVO will pixelate because the error correction hardware isn't as good as that of the Verizon boxes. Someone who has gotten into the diagnostic screen of a VZ box has seen the same RS errors that the TIVO sees due to a 'dirty' signal but the VZ box can correct them and the TIVO cannot. Since the VZ boxes don't display this problem VZ has no incentive to fix their signal. Better error correction H/W on the TIVO would also fix the problem. I don't think TIVO has even acknowledged that their H/W isn't up to snuff so I wouldn't look for a fix from them anytime soon. Since the new HD channels were added some of my most watched problem channels can be viewed in HD and the issue doesn't exist for me on those channels. It still exists on the old channels. For me it is channel 118 that is pixelated and the HD FOX 618 is not. The frustrating thing was that the pixelization was not constant. Might last for a few hours then go away for a few hours then come back. It is probably something VZ could fix and from some reading I understand has fixed in other parts of the country...but getting the right people's attention has always been the real challenge....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747533 Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:47:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747315 JeepMatt : Deblin,
Yes, with a Tivo, this can happen overnight.

One of the main reasons I sold mine. I couldn't stand the unpredictable pixellation.
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747315 Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:11:36 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747240 keyboards : The difference between 9 dB and 10 dB of attenuation is:

-9 dB is 1/8 (0.125) the original signal strength
-10 dB is 1/10 (0.100) the original signal strength.

The world would little note nor long remember the difference :D
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21747240 Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:59:47 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743539 deblin : Yeah was just thinking if 6 didn't cut it, I could go to 9 instead of 10... :)

Thanks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743539 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:31:17 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743534 Hooper :
said by deblin See Profile :

Ok, thanks. I'll start with 3 dB and go from there. It's ok to daisy chain these, right? If so, the possible values I can try given 2x3dB 2x6dB 2x10dB and 2x20dB are:

3
6
9
12
13
16
19
20
23
...

I'm guessing I won't need more than 3-9, so the other values are just theoretical.
Yes, you can daisy chain, but you most likely won't need to. This isn't an exact science really.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743534 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:30:06 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743526 deblin :
said by joe01880 See Profile :

no problem..was just trying to help, Verizons signal is hot, tivos have signal amplifiers, to much signal from verizon can play havock with Tivo, - atenuators reduce the signal from Verizon and Tivo's seem to work better as a result. At least thats whats been posted in this forum in the past!
Thanks, didn't mean to dismiss your post. You were spot on. Seems the colder weather is probably pushing my normally ok signal a bit too hot for my S3 Tivo.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743526 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:28:39 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743514 joe01880 : no problem..was just trying to help, Verizons signal is hot, tivos have signal amplifiers, to much signal from verizon can play havock with Tivo, - atenuators reduce the signal from Verizon and Tivo's seem to work better as a result. At least thats whats been posted in this forum in the past!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743514 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:26:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743515 deblin : Ok, thanks. I'll start with 3 dB and go from there. It's ok to daisy chain these, right? If so, the possible values I can try given 2x3dB 2x6dB 2x10dB and 2x20dB are:

3
6
9
12
13
16
19
20
23
...

I'm guessing I won't need more than 3-9, so the other values are just theoretical.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743515 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:26:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743503 Hooper : Folks have reported 31 as the target SNR on the Tivo. I just went based on viewing experience. If the Tivo pixellated I would add more till it stopped on the offending channel.

Supposedly the S3 handles this better than the TivoHD, so you may only need a small amount unlike me. In my old house, I only needed around 6db of attenuation. It all depends on the ONT and cable run.

In my new place, I have about 15ft of coax from the ONT to the Tivo. In the old house I had about 150 ft.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743503 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:22:08 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743483 deblin : Thanks for the link. $13 isn't bad.

Out of curiosity, what is the target SNR and/or "signal quality" on the S3 Tivo "DVR Diagnostic" page? I'll use the reported SNR at the cold times and warmer daytimes to figure out which attenuator to start with.

Thanks again!
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743483 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:17:10 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743468 deblin :
said by Hooper See Profile :

Let's put it this way. An attenuator can't hurt, even if the problem is transitory.
But it can, can't it? I mean, when it's 95+ this summer, won't the attenuators rob signal strength when the signal isn't as "hot" because of the heat?

I mean, I suppose at some point, the temps will be high enough that I can just remove the attenuators. But if I have to screw around with the level of attenuation all the time, that's just going to suck. :huh: Especially if I wind up recording something only to see it's fubar and have to mess with the attenuation level.

I'm sure you all know the wrath of $wife when american idol or one of their shows isn't recorded or is unwatchable. :D
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743468 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:13:46 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743458 Hooper :
said by deblin See Profile :

I saw mention in another thread of a variable attenuator from radio shack, but could not find it via their web site. Anyone have a direct link or information about cost?
Most folks use these:
»www.smarthome.com/7800/Signal-St···g/p.aspx

The Verizon tech left me some after install for free. I imagine a local Radio Shack will have some.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743458 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:12:36 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743448 Hooper :
said by deblin See Profile :

So for some reason, over night, my signal has become too hot?
I know it seems absurd.

I can tell you that my signal to this day still fluctuates by time of day and year. Sometimes Discovery HD is 100% normal, and sometimes it still pixellates (albeit minimally now) even after attenuation.

Check out some of the channels in the same frequency. Usually where there is one with a problem, you will see it in another channel close by.

RS Corrected value increases when the Tivo can handle the error whereas RS Uncorrected is well a measure of you guessed it.

Let's put it this way. An attenuator can't hurt, even if the problem is transitory.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743448 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:10:36 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743427 deblin : Actually, tonight is one of the coldest nights in forever.

And if I'm not mistaken, colder temperatures will mean less signal loss and hence a "hotter" signal, requiring the attenuator?

I saw mention in another thread of a variable attenuator from radio shack, but could not find it via their web site. Anyone have a direct link or information about cost?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743427 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:05:26 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743413 deblin :
said by Hooper See Profile :

The RS Uncorrected is a sure sign that the Tivo needs to be attenuated.
So for some reason, over night, my signal has become too hot?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743413 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:02:04 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743402 Hooper :
said by deblin See Profile :

Also, the RS uncorrected value is huge (341937) and the RS corrected value is an order of magnitude higher (~3150000).

The corrected RS seems to be going up about 150 per second or so.
The RS Uncorrected is a sure sign that the Tivo needs to be attenuated.

It is not uncommon for my signal quality to be in the low 50's and get a perfect picture. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743402 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:59:24 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743177 deblin : Also, the RS uncorrected value is huge (341937) and the RS corrected value is an order of magnitude higher (~3150000).

The corrected RS seems to be going up about 150 per second or so.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743177 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:22:36 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743148 deblin : Also, the mentions of the attenuator are for a different scenario:

If you are having pixelization issues on a certain channel that the tivo reports with a signal level of 99-110, that might be worth trying. Tune to the channel and adjust the dial.
My signal level is 90-96 but drops as low as the mid-50s. That's a different problem.
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743148 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:16:29 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743120 deblin :
said by joe01880 See Profile :

This topic has been discussed many times, do a search on Tivo signal or atenuator
This Tivo and the wiring and the whole setup have been functioning flawlessly for 1.5 years. Is this something that can happen over night for no reason?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743120 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:12:18 EDT Re: [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743111 joe01880 : This topic has been discussed many times, do a search on Tivo signal or atenuator]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743111 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:11:05 EDT [TIVO] Signal Quality problems http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743097 deblin : Tonight my wife tried to watch the American Idol recording from channel 513 and there is a TON of audio cutouts and video breakups.

So I go into the S3 Tivo diagnostics and I see the SNR at 35 and jumping down often to 33 or even 31 and the "signal strength" (up to 100) showing 90+ most of the time, but dipping into the low 70s and even high 50s.

None of the wiring has changed.

Will a reboot of the Tivo or re-seating and re-initializing the cable cards help? Or is this just a physical problem somehow? If so, does this mean there's a problem with the fiber? ONT?
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He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21743097 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:08:10 EDT