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st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA | reply to fcisler
Re: Ouch said by fcisler:The options of consumer internet in Canada seems horrible. According to this, there's a total of 46 ISP's serving Ontario. Chatham apparently has 20 ISP's serving it. I can't imagine that the 20 ISP's cover 100%, but here's a breakdown: 18 DSL 2 cable 1 Sat/Wireless (one company apparently provides cable and DSL, Altima.net) Are ALL of those DSL companies resellers? Do any of them own their own copper or rent a dry loop and use their own DSLAM equipment? Do the two cable companies throttle/have caps? Keeping in mind I've only been to Canada twice and know almost nothing of it - your internet options seem to suck. Horribly. I feel sorry you have to put up with that ()#$%)@! what the media doesn't tell you is that those companies whining about throttling are not using their own networks. they basically buy services from Bell Canada and resell them, providing only their own mail/news servers and miscellaneous backhaul here and there.
They are, in almost all cases NOT renting dry loops from Bell Canada, and in almost all cases NOT colocating any of their own DSLAMS with Bell Canada.
So then since they're basically just reselling white label ADSL with a few support services added, they are obviously subject to the host companies regulations and irritations, such as throttling and so on. | | |
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| said by st7860:what the media doesn't tell you is that those companies whining about throttling are not using their own networks. they basically buy services from Bell Canada and resell them, providing only their own mail/news servers and miscellaneous backhaul here and there. They are, in almost all cases NOT renting dry loops from Bell Canada, and in almost all cases NOT colocating any of their own DSLAMS with Bell Canada. So then since they're basically just reselling white label ADSL with a few support services added, they are obviously subject to the host companies regulations and irritations, such as throttling and so on. Obviously, you aren't familiar enough with Canadian internet. These so-called "resellers" are far from a white label'd Bell internet. You people in the US always seem to fly off the handle thinking you know it all, when you are absolutely clueless about the situation. Do some research before you post and maybe you'll see why Canadians are so infuriated about the issue.
The only portion of Bell network that these companies rent (at regulated prices I might add) is the last mile, the copper to your house and the dslam is connects too. This is due to one simple fact, our government mandated that Bell do this, so as to provoke at least some competition because otherwise, we'd probably be in an even worse situation.
They also pay Bell more money for links with dedicated bandwidth to have that traffic transported to their central routers which turns it into actual internet traffic. At any point in Bell network, all the traffic is, is a simply PPPoE stream of data, which can technically be anything from phone service, internet, video on demand, etc. | |
st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
2 edits | said by ragingwolf:said by st7860:what the media doesn't tell you is that those companies whining about throttling are not using their own networks. they basically buy services from Bell Canada and resell them, providing only their own mail/news servers and miscellaneous backhaul here and there. They are, in almost all cases NOT renting dry loops from Bell Canada, and in almost all cases NOT colocating any of their own DSLAMS with Bell Canada. So then since they're basically just reselling white label ADSL with a few support services added, they are obviously subject to the host companies regulations and irritations, such as throttling and so on. Obviously, you aren't familiar enough with Canadian internet. These so-called "resellers" are far from a white label'd Bell internet. You people in the US always seem to fly off the handle thinking you know it all, when you are absolutely clueless about the situation. Do some research before you post and maybe you'll see why Canadians are so infuriated about the issue. The only portion of Bell network that these companies rent (at regulated prices I might add) is the last mile, the copper to your house and the dslam is connects too. This is due to one simple fact, our government mandated that Bell do this, so as to provoke at least some competition because otherwise, we'd probably be in an even worse situation. They also pay Bell more money for links with dedicated bandwidth to have that traffic transported to their central routers which turns it into actual internet traffic. At any point in Bell network, all the traffic is, is a simply PPPoE stream of data, which can technically be anything from phone service, internet, video on demand, etc. the government didn't mandate anything, except that bell provide various levels of resale, such as the white label ADSL services that companies in Ontario normally use.
Companies do have the option of locating equipmen inside a Bell CANADA central office to avoid any throttling, but most choose not to do so.
for over 7 years companies in Canada have been able to provide their own ADSL instead of white label bell ADSL, but most choose not to do so because it is expensive.
same thing applies with local phone service too. companies in Canada have been able to do so for over 7 years, but, most choose not to do so, instead opting for white label bell telephone service. | |
| reply to ragingwolf
Actually, they only pay for dedicated bandwidth between the Bell aggregation PoP of their choice and their routers, so from a CO in Toronto to 151 Front in TSI's case. At $1700 per Gig-e circuit, that's what you get: increments of 1Gbps to link the Bell network to your reseller PoP where you host everything but the transport, aggregation, distribution and access networks, ie. internet transit, mail, DNS and webhosting.
You can't have a dedicated capacity provisioned in the GAS service because the end-user endpoints are so dynamic. There are dedicated ADSL services and Lan extensions, but they cost more because each circuit is provisioned end-to-end with a defined capacity up to the exchange point between Bell and the ISP, who then rents the $1700/month Gig-E circuits to haul it to their PoP. | |
 R0CKYTSI RockyPremium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
1 edit | reply to st7860
said by st7860:said by fcisler:The options of consumer internet in Canada seems horrible. According to this, there's a total of 46 ISP's serving Ontario. Chatham apparently has 20 ISP's serving it. I can't imagine that the 20 ISP's cover 100%, but here's a breakdown: 18 DSL 2 cable 1 Sat/Wireless (one company apparently provides cable and DSL, Altima.net) Are ALL of those DSL companies resellers? Do any of them own their own copper or rent a dry loop and use their own DSLAM equipment? Do the two cable companies throttle/have caps? Keeping in mind I've only been to Canada twice and know almost nothing of it - your internet options seem to suck. Horribly. I feel sorry you have to put up with that ()#$%)@! what the media doesn't tell you is that those companies whining about throttling are not using their own networks. they basically buy services from Bell Canada and resell them, providing only their own mail/news servers and miscellaneous backhaul here and there. They are, in almost all cases NOT renting dry loops from Bell Canada, and in almost all cases NOT colocating any of their own DSLAMS with Bell Canada. So then since they're basically just reselling white label ADSL with a few support services added, they are obviously subject to the host companies regulations and irritations, such as throttling and so on. Excuse me but you are passing judgement with only a portion of what you think is real. You can't strip TekSavvy's portion/responsibility and deliver internet access... you should try it one day. For proof of... When we test an account to see if it's getting to the DSLAM, or first hop, we do a "test@test" attempt. If this authenticates, this means the first hop is functional, but you can't surf with this as it has yet to pick up a routable world IP. Bell would have to then pass this account off to its own servers/routers (through Sympatico/Bell Internet), which it can't, as the client is not theirs. We then test to see if the individual is able to pick up a TSI IP, which is where it gets blatantly obvious that Bell is no longer involved.... If you get no IP you then know the problem is still within Bell's control, but if you pick up a routable IP, that means it has gotten to us (TSI) and is ready for the internet portion/delivery.
In other words, if we were a reseller, the IPs and Internet routing would all be Bell's, but in our case, we paid Bell, as a preferred (and only in this case) vendor to backhaul the various locations (in Ontario/Quebec) to Toronto, where their responsibility ends. Bell has "ZERO" to do with the internet portion... Did I say "zero" here, because I think I just did!
We do "ALL" the internet routing, "ALL" the IP routing, "ALL" the Internet authentication, "ALL" the internet technical support (only time bell gets involved is when they messed up the delivery to us or when there's a copper problem, related to phone service... before anyone complains about this part, I do realise I'm making this sound like it's a small segment, but I'm not as it's not, but we're paying the better of three quarter million per month to make sure things are ok...).
Ohh... did I say they have "zero" responsibility passed 151 Front Street in Toronto, where we co-locate with them, to aggregate all the DSL? So, we "DO" collocate with them, it's just a different configuration is all.... We had the choice to either co-locate in the Central Offices or co-locate with Bell in Toronto and have the various locations back-hauled to there, which was, in the end, what we chose! We had considered moving away from the aggregation in Toronto, but Bell gave us new tiers to make it worth staying through their one spot in Toronto. So, in the end, Bell created this version of collocation because it gave them more profits (which in turn gave us more flexibility... win-win!... gave us much more Transit flexibility and multi-homing capabilities).
We were, as a result, able to get better transit rates, which we passed on to our clients by virtue of increased caps and plans. We were also able to add such things as MLPPP and co-locations services and even allow some flexibilities for routing through TORIX.... All in all... these are all advantages and perks that are being threatened right now because of greed and ignorance!
....did I mention Bell has "ZERO" rights/responsibility past the 6th floor in 151 Front? Because they do absolutely nothing passed that point, which is a very important part to actually making Internet functional? I almost feel as though I'm repeating myself right now, but I hear repeating a couple times or more on TV/Radio/etc helps having it stick in people's minds.................
Rocky
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
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