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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Cry me a river...it's not a rural problem Powell, WY
Population: 5,300ish
Location: rural
Internet: Bresnan Cable (lousy), Muni fiber (awesome)
Golden, CO
Population: 17,100ish
Location: Semi-urban, quick drive to Denver, college students abound
Internet: Comcast Cable (no DOCSIS 3.0, just 1.1, but no likelihood of selling off), USCable (not in most places, meh quality), Qwest DSL (no ADSL2+, some in-town areas get 5 Mbit as the highest speed, like me)
Fredericksburg, TX
Population: 11,000+
Location: Semi-rural, halfway between San Antonio and Austin
Internet: Austin RR, low likelihood of selloff, 15/2 + PowerBoost highest speed but I hear it doesn't get there...7/512 works okay though...very limited, expensive ($50/month) 1.5/512 DSL with no upgrades in sight
Outside of Fredericksburg, TX
Population: A thousand or two
Location: Rural, but at least some within RADSL range of town
Internet: Wireless, EvDO (Sprint/Verizon) or sat. Wireless is rather unreliable and a 512k connection is $43 two miles outside city limits. 1 mbit is $70, 2 mbit is $100, but QoS is so poor you don't want to do either. Better choice: EvDO with Millenicom: 1-1.5 Mbps/250-350k for $60/month.
So as long as you've got reliable internet, TV and VoIP with a triple play that's $100 per month for digital cable, all-inclusive VoIP and 1.5M+ internet, cry me a river.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't have the best connections possible, but it's easy to find areas where service is worse than where you're at. Take JetBroadband for example...ech.
Also, urban internet, with oversold nodes, lousy copper wiring and municipal contracts, can be just as lousy as the rural stuff. Heck, if you get a forward-thinking rural telco you might get FTTH. Problem is, rural telcos get bought up, and when cable companies etc. spin off operations, they're generally not to MSOs who have the same work ethic as the fiber-focused rural telcos.
Yes, this is a problem. No, I don't think Comcast, TWC, Charter or Cox should be orced to hold onto properties that they deem unprofitable. Yes, I think those "unprofitable" properties should be sold to companies that actually give a crap about their customers.
For the record, Midcontinent Communications seems to have some competitive offerings in their areas of service, so former Charter customers shouldn't be too afraid. Granted, upload speeds on the cable connections aren't great, but from what I can gather Midco actually has better connectivity on the headend (Verizon + AT&T + Sprint) and they have an uncapped-download plan.
Subbenlink? Meh. JetBroadand? Oh noes! Windjammer? Meh.
That's why Mr. Presi-glorious-savior-dent should give incentives (low interest loans) to companies that take over rural systems, specifically to in-source customer service, split nodes, upgrade to DOCSIS 3, etc.
I can see it now: if you're a rural cable company, a prime-minus-2% loan for $500 per customer is specifically for deployment of DOCSIS 3 to your customers. Another loan at the same rate covers the cost of getting a fiber link all the way to a location where at least two carriers have POPs. End result: rural areas get 20/5 cable internet for $70 per month, 10/2 for $50 per month, 5/1 for $30 per month, and the loan is paid off. Telcos could get an $800 per customer low interest loan to roll out fiber to customers. The result: 20/5 for $60, 10/2 for $40, 5/1 for $25, due to competition.
Also, ads that mention "fiber" on an HTC or FTTN network should be outright outlawed. Seriously people...unless your system can do 622 Mbps down and 155 Mbps up, shared between 32 or less customers, don't make any pretense that it does! | |
beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | $500 per customer? That's a non starter. Maybe $10,000-$50,000 per customer and you'll get it done. | |
| reply to iansltx
These are exceptions to the rule.
I was told that when Service Electric wanted to wire everyone in this town, they wanted $4 more from every existing and future subscribers.
A lot of the "good old boys" told them take the cable and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Good thing that common sense prevailed, we now have a robust FTTN 860MHz system with DOCSIS3. | | |
|
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to beaups
It costs about $1000 per customer to install FiOS. Which requires new lines in the ground. $175 per customer gets Qwest ADSL2+ service with FTTN. $150 or so gets Optimum online WiFi and I think DOCSIS 3. So yeah, $500 is reasonable  | |
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to fifty nine
$4 per month or overall or what exactly? That's dirt cheap really...though on the other hand they have caps on service. Still, cheap!
By the way, out of curiosity, what networks take you to the internet? Care to post a traceroute or something like that? Thx! | |
2 edits | No it was a $4 rate increase for basic cable for every subscriber in exchange for wiring the whole town. Basically when the franchise was up for renewal, the town asked them if they could wire the whole town, and SE Cable came back and gave this solution. Lots of people who had cable already didn't like it, some didn't care, some welcomed it. At least that's what I heard (I wasn't living here at that time).
Internet rates are on par with most cable providers. 10mbps is $41.95 if you have "expanded basic" which is the standard set of standard definition cable channels beyond your local channels. 30mbps is more expensive, $79.95/month.
I think their current rates are reasonable. Their cablecard policy is somewhat fair, although I don't like that they don't give you the option to buy them anymore, only lease for $2.95/mo.
Traceroutes (first hop is my firewall, 2nd hop is the cable modem):
eatme@eatme-laptop:~$ traceroute www.dslreports.com
traceroute to www.dslreports.com (209.123.109.175), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 pfsense-gw (10.25.234.254) 0.261 ms 0.286 ms 0.271 ms
2 10.102.0.1 (10.102.0.1) 10.983 ms 10.979 ms 11.031 ms
3 gateway-vlan399-hdtcmts.ban.ptd.net (24.229.33.97) 12.116 ms 12.152 ms 12.190 ms
4 gateway2-t8-1-str22ban.str.ptd.net (204.186.238.53) 12.406 ms 12.453 ms 12.478 ms
5 gateway-t3-2-nyc2str2.nyc.ptd.net (207.44.125.6) 17.866 ms 17.848 ms 17.857 ms
6 xe-7-3-0.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.78.132.69) 17.460 ms 16.340 ms 16.518 ms
7 vlan99.csw4.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.254) 16.584 ms vlan79.csw2.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.126) 22.436 ms vlan89.csw3.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.190) 16.770 ms
8 ae-81-81.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.134.73) 18.265 ms 18.028 ms 17.919 ms
9 ae-2-2.ebr1.Newark1.Level3.net (4.69.132.98) 24.517 ms 24.585 ms 24.440 ms
10 ae-11-51.car1.Newark1.Level3.net (4.68.99.5) 201.380 ms ae-11-55.car1.Newark1.Level3.net (4.68.99.133) 201.212 ms ae-11-51.car1.Newark1.Level3.net (4.68.99.5) 201.217 ms
11 4.79.189.74 (4.79.189.74) 18.006 ms 18.057 ms 18.103 ms
12 0.e1-4.tbr2.oct.nac.net (209.123.10.126) 18.649 ms 18.551 ms 17.737 ms
13 vlan808.esd1.oct.nac.net (209.123.10.42) 17.851 ms 23.663 ms 23.648 ms
(timed out after that, probably firewalled off).
Traceroute to an akamaized site:
traceroute to www.foxnews.com (204.186.38.39), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 pfsense-gw (10.25.234.254) 0.280 ms 0.294 ms 0.336 ms
2 10.102.0.1 (10.102.0.1) 10.962 ms 10.973 ms 11.124 ms
3 gateway-vlan399-hdtcmts.ban.ptd.net (24.229.33.97) 12.211 ms 12.274 ms 12.410 ms
4 gateway2-t8-1-str22ban.str.ptd.net (204.186.238.53) 12.678 ms 12.964 ms 13.061 ms
5 gateway-t1-2-str2str2.str.ptd.net (207.44.122.177) 12.452 ms 12.686 ms 12.827 ms
6 gateway2-t2-1-leh22str2.leh.ptd.net (207.44.127.109) 13.209 ms 15.281 ms 15.398 ms
7 gateway3-t2-1-pal32leh2.pal.ptd.net (204.186.241.21) 15.483 ms 15.909 ms 15.906 ms
8 204.186.38.39 (204.186.38.39) 11.888 ms 11.903 ms 16.469 ms
West coast:
eatme@eatme-laptop:~$ traceroute www.ci.la.ca.us
traceroute to www.ci.la.ca.us (161.149.221.240), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 pfsense-gw (10.25.234.254) 0.297 ms 0.305 ms 0.338 ms
2 10.102.0.1 (10.102.0.1) 9.929 ms 9.937 ms 10.060 ms
3 gateway-vlan399-hdtcmts.ban.ptd.net (24.229.33.97) 11.142 ms 11.212 ms 11.300 ms
4 gateway2-t8-1-sm22ban.sm.ptd.net (204.186.241.18) 12.026 ms 12.155 ms12.208 ms
5 gateway-t3-3-abn2sm2.abn.ptd.net (207.44.125.2) 17.337 ms 17.360 ms 17.495 ms
6 144.228.205.25 (144.228.205.25) 17.859 ms 20.674 ms 20.906 ms
7 sl-st31-ash-0-8-0-3.sprintlink.net (144.232.3.171) 20.500 ms 16.168 ms 16.246 ms
8 sl-st20-ash-5-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.3.76) 16.285 ms 16.280 ms 16.257 ms
9 dcp-brdr-02.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.81) 15.931 ms 15.925 ms 16.143 ms
10 dcx-core-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.251.33) 19.632 ms 19.617 ms 19.656 ms
11 bur-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.10.6) 90.488 ms 90.186 ms 90.239 ms
12 bur-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.13.54) 89.297 ms 89.288 ms bur-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.13.14) 90.245 ms
13 67.134.70.134 (67.134.70.134) 93.308 ms 88.598 ms 92.934 ms
14 161.149.101.101 (161.149.101.101) 90.066 ms 91.243 ms 91.193 ms
(times out after that)
Google:
eatme@eatme-laptop:~$ traceroute www.google.com
traceroute to www.google.com (64.233.169.104), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 pfsense-gw (10.25.234.254) 0.239 ms 0.294 ms 0.327 ms
2 10.102.0.1 (10.102.0.1) 9.483 ms 9.497 ms 9.631 ms
3 gateway-vlan399-hdtcmts.ban.ptd.net (24.229.33.97) 10.665 ms 10.751 ms 10.870 ms
4 gateway2-t8-1-sm22ban.sm.ptd.net (204.186.241.18) 11.759 ms 11.785 ms11.870 ms
5 gateway-t3-3-abn2sm2.abn.ptd.net (207.44.125.2) 16.855 ms 16.832 ms 17.045 ms
6 144.228.205.25 (144.228.205.25) 17.409 ms 19.886 ms 20.005 ms
7 sl-googl11-219203-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.205.18) 19.696 ms 16.050 ms 16.014 ms
8 216.239.48.110 (216.239.48.110) 15.149 ms 216.239.48.108 (216.239.48.108) 21.177 ms 216.239.48.112 (216.239.48.112) 20.858 ms
9 64.233.175.109 (64.233.175.109) 21.541 ms 66.249.95.126 (66.249.95.126) 21.154 ms 64.233.175.111 (64.233.175.111) 21.551 ms
10 216.239.49.145 (216.239.49.145) 24.016 ms 216.239.49.149 (216.239.49.149) 25.484 ms 27.629 ms
11 216.239.49.149 (216.239.49.149) 29.252 ms yo-in-f104.google.com (64.233.169.104) 21.345 ms 20.904 ms
UK:
eatme@eatme-laptop:~$ traceroute www.bbc.co.uk
traceroute to www.bbc.co.uk (212.58.253.68), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 pfsense-gw (10.25.234.254) 0.277 ms 0.219 ms 0.284 ms
2 10.102.0.1 (10.102.0.1) 12.377 ms 12.285 ms 12.378 ms
3 gateway-vlan399-hdtcmts.ban.ptd.net (24.229.33.97) 13.372 ms 13.480 ms 13.601 ms
4 gateway2-t8-1-str22ban.str.ptd.net (204.186.238.53) 58.573 ms 58.605 ms 58.770 ms
5 gateway-t3-2-nyc2str2.nyc.ptd.net (207.44.125.6) 19.101 ms 19.295 ms 19.343 ms
6 xe-7-3-0.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.78.132.69) 18.853 ms 16.817 ms 16.922 ms
7 vlan89.csw3.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.190) 20.214 ms 21.867 ms vlan69.csw1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.62) 27.545 ms
8 ae-71-71.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.134.69) 17.404 ms ae-91-91.ebr1.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.134.77) 17.054 ms 17.043 ms
9 ae-42-42.ebr2.London1.Level3.net (4.69.137.69) 98.743 ms ae-44-44.ebr2.London1.Level3.net (4.69.137.77) 95.744 ms ae-41-41.ebr2.London1.Level3.net (4.69.137.65) 95.754 ms
10 ae-24-56.car3.London1.Level3.net (4.68.116.177) 90.662 ms ae-24-52.car3.London1.Level3.net (4.68.116.49) 92.092 ms ae-24-56.car3.London1.Level3.net(4.68.116.177) 90.558 ms
11 195.50.90.190 (195.50.90.190) 89.464 ms 90.227 ms 89.455 ms
12 212.58.238.129 (212.58.238.129) 198.485 ms 198.501 ms 115.232 ms
13 te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (212.58.239.222) 86.565 ms 85.572 ms 85.599 ms
(times out after that) | |
beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | reply to iansltx
I question your 1000 per customer for fios, but for arguments sake let's assume that's true. The ONLY way they get that cost is based on the density of the areas they serve!. You can't string fiber down a 3 mile road and hit 4 houses and tell me it's only going to cost 1000 per home. Thanks for helping me make my point. | |
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| I wasn't insinuating that you need FTTCP (fiber to the cow pasture) unless the people are willing to pay another thousand or two for it. More like, if an area can get DSL now, an upgrade to fiber would cost about that much. If an area can get DOCSIS cable right now, DOCSIS 3 would cost about that much...tops. | |
beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | I think your math is WAY off, but again will assume it's not. If an area already has DOCSIS cable wouldn't it be safe to assume that "most" of those same areas also have HSI? I am guessing that the aras with no broadband at all (which is what this thread is about) have no DOCSIS cable system, and more likely no cable at all. Big $$$$ to deploy. | |
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Nope, actually I'm looking more at such things as Windjammer, Suddenlink, JetBroadband, etc. | |
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