Bob the Bobster
@ge.com
| [ Classes] DK best DPS spec I am trying and I am going to rearrange my specs on my Death Knight. Currently I am half blood and half unholy. Any suggestions on builds or how to set up my Death Knight for the most possible DPS in raids and instances. I am only looking at distribution of talents points not gear. | |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec depends really doesn't it. blood is single tgt dps and unholy is aoe dps. that is from what i have seen and been told. i like unholy myself. but i used it for leveling. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | since the patch, i would like to say that frost got some love with the new glyphs and HB not on a CD, and some other things like killing machine being based on a timer, not how fast you throw a dw dk againt a 2hander...so, imo, frost/blood for me | |
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Bob the Bobster
@ge.com | Besides what spec will give me the most AOE DPS in instance groups. What glyphs should go with it and maybe minor ones? | |
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merc669
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Lexington Park, MD | Try this site. A lot of info.....
»elitistjerks.com/f72/
Also I believe "Archivis" had posted a good bit of good info also. But I cannot find the thread right now.
Bill Sends.... | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Ok, now it's only two days after the patch, so this information is not settled down as much as it used to be 3.0.8, but I've done my best to read every DK thread, from here, to WoW DK forums, to Elitist Jerks, to the Ebon Hold to deathknight.info to WOTLK Wiki.
I then took that information and amongst other DK's that I feel are skilled (at varying gear levels) and here's the results I came up with.
Dualwield Frost took a big hit. Especially the fast/fast build. Killing Machine is a proc-per-minute based talent now, so it is kinda worthless to have a fast main hand. The off hand still has some value as to being fast, but is no longer as essential as it used to be. People are gasping for air anywhere to find some way to make DW happen. The only way that seems, is to find the slowest main hand possible to maximize Frost Strikes.
For those of you who are undergeared and are looking for a 2H spec, 17/0/54 is still a very strong spec (assuming the kinks have been hot patched over the last few days). Same rotation applies, same playstyle. Capitalize on the Ghoul still for extra damage since its stats went up.
For those of you who are geared enough for it, I think Blood is the way to go. To define "geared", I do mean that you have the Obliterage Sigil and at least 2pc T7 and preferably are hit capped(8%) an expertise capped, including talents. You should have no greens and if you have blues, they should be comparable to epics that are currently out there. I had an undergeared DK go with my setup in a raid last night and he just could not hold his own against me versus my gear, but he told me that even as undergeared as he was compared to me, he said that his personal numbers went higher than it did before.
Before the patch, I was doing 4400 DPS on Patch(25-man) as Unholy. Last night, we full-cleared Naxx10. My DPS was 5200. I cannot imagine what it would be like if I had a full compliment of raid buffs in Naxx25 on Patch. I'll know again this Sunday, but I hit like a mother fuckin truck now.
After last night, I'm 5/5 T7 instead of 3/5. The 4pc bonus will help, but is not critical. I have the Heigan Sigil and I have the Grim Toll (armor penetration proc trinket). I also have Jawbone (2H wep). I sincerely believe that those three things are the largest contributors to my damage (Check my Armory on Novaus, ignore the lack of enchant/gems in my head/legs. I got them last night and went to bed after ther aid).
I spent a lot of time on the target dummies. Yes, the numbers were fun to sit there and watch as me and my dancing rune weapon cleaved and hit 4 targets at the same time, and it made for a temporary padding of numbers, but it wasn't practical in raids.
I used the 51/0/20 build. If you're copying my build, the points spent in Vampiric Blood, Mark of Blood and Corpse Explosion are all optional. There aren't many better blood alternatives, and you could probably spend 1 point for spell hit in the Unholy tree instead of Corpse Explosion, but fuck it, I wanted to try it and to be honest, I think it was worth it. I'm hit capped on all my attacks and I can't remember the last time a death coil missed.
I did not try 51/13/7 and after last night, I really don't have any intention to. I tried a whole variety of rotations:
(Blood Presence)
Oblit, PS, IT, HSx2 - DC Spam
HSx4, Oblit - DC Spam
(Blood and Unholy Presence)
Oblitx2, HSx2 - DC Spam
HSx6 - DC Spam
Those two rotations were good, but I found that for the first rotation, it required too much of an optimal setting, I wasn't utilizing my RP correctly and I couldn't take time out to pop Sudden Doom procs, otherwise I ended up not spending my runes the instant they were active.
In the second rotation, I found that diseaseless didn't seem to have a negative impact like it did pre 3.0.8. The Glyph of Obliterate seems to scale better and Obliterate seems to scale better overall and not rely so much on diseases. In Blood Presence, I still had a problem of having a lopsided rotation. Runes weren't getting spent fast enough. In Unholy Presence, i'd have dead time in line 1, and line 2 felt sloppy with timing sudden doom procs.
So, I finally tried this:
(Blood Presence)
OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam
No second line, just use that rotation. Trash, boss, aoe, doesn't matter. Use it. I tried D&D/IT/PS/Pest spam, but it didn't work. I used Corpse Explosion as my RP dump as available for AoE pulls. I stuck with that rotation, the simplest of all DK rotations available.
I used Hyseteria in conjunction with Dancing Rune Weapon. I hit like I never hit before. Even on Patch, I popped obscene amounts of damage. I ended 10-man Patch DPS (according to recount) with 5200 DPS. 800 DPS higher than I did in the 25-man version where I had more buffs!
My highest obliterate crit on a non-gimmick fight was 12228. I hit that on a trash mob. Maybe all the procs aligned or something, but I saw that and shit my pants. Diseaseless obliterate for over 12k, hahaha. Heart Strikes are still relatively weak compared to Obliterate, but when they hit two mobs, its powerful.... and I think that the damage of a cleaving Heart Strike is still above and beyond what AoE seems to be capable of, especially when its only 2-4 mobs.
I may see about re-adjusting my spec. It's wrapped around diseases still (like all 51/0/20 specs are) and I'm going to see if there's a way to sneak points and place them elsewhere. I don't really see any alternatives, so probably not and if my tests don't pan out so well, I can just flip to diseases again without respecing.
So, that's my two cents about DK's only 2 days after 3.0.8. I'm going to continue to use 51/0/20, OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam until more sound numbers come out. If you're geared for it, I recommend you give it a shot.
For everyone else, I'd probably stick to 17/0/54 Unholy and if you're a dualwield kinda guy, maybe look to going back to a 2H until someone comes out with a better DW spec.
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awesome
Premium
join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH
 ·Windstream
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Arch, do you feel that if the best DK build/rotation involves not using diseases they will nerf that build/rotation?
I definitely feel that way. I get the feeling they want diseases to be a major part of playing a Death Knight, and if the cookie cutter is to not even use diseases, I think something will change. Perhaps not a nerf, but maybe a buff to the diseases.
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wheresmedrink.wordpress.com | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec While I have a set of tanking gear in the bank, I have not worked on tanking. DK tanking has a few "oh shit" buttons and a couple of mitigation buttons to keep maintained, but for the most part, it is still largely about threat generation, where standard DPS rotations apply, swapping a strike out for a mitigation cooldown instead.
As for "nerfing" the abilities... yes, I agree that once Blizzard finds this out, that they'll modify it. Personally, I don't mind mashing 2-3 buttons. It allows me to focus more on the fight, rather than juggling cooldowns/rotations/timers/etc. OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam.
In my 10-man, typically the whole lot of us sit towards the top and juggle first place on boss depending on who it favors. Last night, no one touched me. Second place was 20% behind me.
I think that I've gotten everything out of 10-man Naxx that I possibly can now. I need to save my 25-man DKP so I can get a 220 DPS weapon and cap out on gear. I still have some upgrades to go.
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| | | Swillx
join:2009-01-12
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec I still need the obliterate sigil  , yet to see it drop. 10 man naxx is now worthless to me, as are 10 man emblems. I have the 220wep though, betrayer of humanity.
Anyways, Last night running heroics i found myself not bothering with diseases either..and actually seeing better dps for not bothering with them. I'm 51/13/7...i guess its time to go 51/0/20. | |
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| | | | Swillx
join:2009-01-12 | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Oh and I came from a DKP guild in BC, now in a guild that does rolls and a little bit of loot cons. Way better then DKP, DKP hinders a guilds progression imo. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec I find that players hinder progression more than loot distrubtion hinders progression. | |
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| | | | | | Swillx
join:2009-01-12
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Agreed. But rolling, and then also taking a look at who would get the bigger upgrade helps gear the guild as a whole faster, thus making progression easier. DKP you often get a select few, usually officers, getting completely max'd overbidding the people that cant make as many raids still with some blues. And yeah maybe they deserve it more, but i personally prefer the sharing and generosity that my guild has. The moto since I joined has always been not to care to much about loot but rather guild progression.
DKP in my old guild was a big bidding greed fest where someone would take gear that was extremely slight in upgrades away from someone where it might have been a big upgrade. | |
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join:2009-01-21
Alexandria, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec DKP is by far the worst thing I've ever seen in the game. It's always guild officers deciding if they want something, and then throwing scraps to everyone else to fight over. If I come to the raid and put in hours in there, I should have just as much right to roll. | |
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join:2009-01-12 | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Thats exactly how it was in my old guild. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| There are other factors to include more than "who its the largest upgrade for". Attendance, dedication, skill, etc. In a world where everyone shows up to every raid and will stick with it for years to come, yes, your system would make sense.
In a system where folks come and ago and people vary on a degree of skill levels, DKP wins out.
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec in the guild i am in when we roll on something. the individuals look at each others gear and if they see the it is a bigger upgrade for the other they let them have it even if they won the roll. we all have become really good friends. and even a lot of them are RL friends. live together and work together. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Do you guys have little parties on the weekends where one of you dresses up like a policeman, the other as an indian chief and another a construction worker? | |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec sure. didn't i see you there as the biker... lol... | |
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| JamesT3
join:2008-11-17
Northport, NY
| Thanks for posting this, Arch. I'm only level 63 now, but I'm planning on using the 17/0/54 build for DPS when I hit 80 (and I'm also leveling Unholy, so I have a lot of those talents now).
Have you tried tanking to any serious degree as well? Since Unholy is my DPS build, I think I'll probably go with Frost for tanking - the up-front damage offered by this spec is just too hard to pass up, even though I know Unholy can do well also.
Now, hopefully Blizzard implements the dual-spec system before I hit 80!  | |
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awesome
Premium
join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH
·Windstream
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Don't count on dual-spec anytime soon.
I've tanked with both Frost and Unholy. I preferred Unholy to Frost, but that's more of a playstyle choice. Both worked. I didn't die and I held threat with both specs.
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wheresmedrink.wordpress.com | |
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Arcmortal
@rcn.com | Archivis...What build are you useing now? What is your dps and what rotation are you useing?
Any help to improve my dps will be thankful. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec said by Arcmortal :
Archivis...What build are you useing now? What is your dps and what rotation are you useing?
Any help to improve my dps will be thankful.
2H frost tonight. Blood Tap, IT, BS, OBx2, FSx3 repeat | |
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Grave
@verizon.net | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Blood tap is 1min cool down. How do you work that into your rotation? | |
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Glacial
@rogers.com
| I dont get ur rotation : OB x 2, HS x 2 , DC spam.. it cant really work since ur RP only gets to about 30 with that rotation, which means only 1 DC and then ur still out of runes to restart ur rotation, so please explain how u do it.
Thank you. ( this reply was to archivis ) | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Uh
30 RP?
You don't know what you're talking about. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | yeah, its more then 30rp per rotation,
oh arch, the build is awesome, but i have a couple more questions, what glyphs are you using? sides the oblit one.
and in 25 man last night i hit third on the dps chart, a first for me ever | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Obliterate
Blood Strike
Ghoul
Those are the glyphs I use. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Ok, we had a raid last night.
Here's the WMO meter.
»www.wowmeteronline.com//combat/log/412722
I'm Novaus. You can see me doing well on the majority of the fights.
Ignore Patchwerk #1. They wanted me to off-tank because one of the tanks had a Comcast issue. I didn't die, but one of our other tanks did. They brought in another tank in instead and let me DPS. Look at Patch #2 to see my DPS.
Click on the second Patchwerk. Click on my name and look at the realtime DPS chart. You can see that for nearly 45 seconds (and my recount also reflects this), I was at 9500 DPS. As time went on, it tapered more and more.
But as you can see, I drastically outscale the rest of my raid members on that fight at our gear level.
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I melt faces. | |
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| Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec why the blood strike glyph when blood strike isnt part of your rotation? | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Glyph of Blood Strike affects Heart Strike.
Also, even if a boss is immune, if a debuff can be applied, its suitable enough to apply for the damage bonus. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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Vitank
@dnd.ca | To Tehuno: Blood strike glyph affects Heart Strikes. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| after a long and tedious weekend of raiding with new weapons (no 2handers) i threw together a dw spec, and lost no dps (they point being i went from titansteel destroyer to widows fury/hatestrike), in fact, i did better then ever before, but to Arch, i read in a post how you said blood should scale better in the long run, compared to unholy which caps pretty fast...i think with the right 2hander, blood/unholy could be the winning #s, but with the right onehanders and spec, unholy might have a decent give to blood | |
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Xessdeth
@cox.net
| real quick, i'd like to go back to the glyphs..... I understand OB, BS glyph makes no sence to me, since your blood and don't have desecration and you can't snare bosses. Also, this game has always been about text, unless it's a glitch, BS glyph should not effect HS. Can anyone explain? I don't wanna waste hundredes of gold respecing and glyphing, just to find that your Blood spec and glyphs idea end up not making me hit as hard or harder then I already do! | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Just because you don't snare, doesn't mean someone else can't. Also, Glyph of Blood Strike works with Heart Strike. | |
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| | liquoranne
join:2009-01-14
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Heh. No offense Arch, great dps by the way, but the ability to pull those numbers with 3 buttons is insane. heh. i guess i am a little envious, do to me having to constantly juggle dots and mbs and mf's. And even with that still not producing those numbers.
Oh, and i disagree with DK's that dont do the disease debuff to the boss. That would be like me running my vt and mb combos to not proc replin. I will never be OOM but i bet my healers would be pissed. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | and hows that to your old one arch? | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Comparable. I really did not have a good run. i had RL distractions, including on patch. | |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | so, one question, why dont you ever think about a disease rotation? im finding it pretty comparable and blizzard plans to beef up the dots in 3.1 | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec I did use diseases before 3.0.8, but with the way they changed things, the no-disease one did just fine. | |
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Astice
@telecomitalia.it
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Hello,Archivis any news? what specc is best for 25 man raid no-disease blood or 21b/50f/0u?
i tried no-disease for about 10 day with nice result.... tryed frost yestarday and dunno if is better.. but i think no(need more try)
sorry for my engish ;P | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec I don't believe there is a best.
If WMO will update their ranking, I believe I did break like #6 top DK worldwide on Thaddius at around 9100 actual DPS. I'll have to double check, just going off memory, but it wont' show my name. Wonder if the scoreboard updates once a day or what. I did this as 2H frost. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec Arch can you post your spec? I tank, but it's something to be considered when dual spec comes out. Collecting tier pieces etc for off days. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec 17/54/0 DPS talents. If you need an exact link, let me know. | |
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Bob the Bobster
@ge.com
| Arch,
What is your rotation and what glyphs?
That is very close to my spec.. I am hitting shit for nothing in naxx, lucky to do a pultry 1800 DPS...with buffs (dragon food and reletless assault elixir). Mind You I have 4 T7 pieces and all epics. I am using strength gems. Can you link your character name. Check out mine on Aerie peak - Parafuse, I usually have a 2h weapon titansteal destroyer. I might have 2 one handers equiped when you look since I was goofing around build 4 my weapon levels to 400.
Any advise would be helpfull..thanks.. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec said by Bob the Bobster :
Arch,
What is your rotation and what glyphs?
That is very close to my spec.. I am hitting shit for nothing in naxx, lucky to do a pultry 1800 DPS...with buffs (dragon food and reletless assault elixir). Mind You I have 4 T7 pieces and all epics. I am using strength gems. Can you link your character name. Check out mine on Aerie peak - Parafuse, I usually have a 2h weapon titansteal destroyer. I might have 2 one handers equiped when you look since I was goofing around build 4 my weapon levels to 400.
Any advise would be helpfull..thanks..
To answer you guys and the other guy's post.
I've decided to add Blood Tap into my Blood Strike macro to cast it whenever its available. using that, my rotation is:
IT, BS, OBx2, (HB if Rime proc'd), FSx3, repeat.
Blood Tap to pop a rune into a death Rune is only needed at the start. After that, Blood Strike automatically converts a rune into a Death Rune, allowing you to keep this rotation up infinitely.
Edit: Glyphs.. Obliterate, Icy Touch, Frost Strike. No compromise there. | |
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Grave
@verizon.net | 2H frost 17/54/0 DPS talents. Blood Tap, IT, BS, OBx2, FSx3 repeat. Thats what he use. And how do u fit Blood tap in there? its 1min cool down. What exactly is your rotations like? after the first rotation what happens next? | |
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Bob the Bobster
@ge.com
| Current Rotation PS- (Icy chill-the bluevfist) -BS-BS-OBLIT-FS (Till it runs out) and repeat... Mind u I have the trinket that I kick in every 2min on a macro.. It was on elistjerks.. just not working how I would like.. Do you have a talent tree I can copy. | |
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DarkspiteAzgalor
@medtronic.com | This may be a "duh" question, but I'm assuming you're in Blood Presence for 17/54/0? | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec said by DarkspiteAzgalor :
This may be a "duh" question, but I'm assuming you're in Blood Presence for 17/54/0?
Yep | |
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Bob the Bobster
@verizon.net | Of coarse I am in blood presence.
Just think my dps is crappy for the gear I have.
Trying the new rotation. | |
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Grave
@verizon.net | Im sorry what is (HB if Rime proc'd) ? what is HB and RIME? | |
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