Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Bob the Bobster
Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec
Ok, now it's only two days after the patch, so this information is not settled down as much as it used to be 3.0.8, but I've done my best to read every DK thread, from here, to WoW DK forums, to Elitist Jerks, to the Ebon Hold to deathknight.info to WOTLK Wiki.
I then took that information and amongst other DK's that I feel are skilled (at varying gear levels) and here's the results I came up with.
Dualwield Frost took a big hit. Especially the fast/fast build. Killing Machine is a proc-per-minute based talent now, so it is kinda worthless to have a fast main hand. The off hand still has some value as to being fast, but is no longer as essential as it used to be. People are gasping for air anywhere to find some way to make DW happen. The only way that seems, is to find the slowest main hand possible to maximize Frost Strikes.
For those of you who are undergeared and are looking for a 2H spec, 17/0/54 is still a very strong spec (assuming the kinks have been hot patched over the last few days). Same rotation applies, same playstyle. Capitalize on the Ghoul still for extra damage since its stats went up.
For those of you who are geared enough for it, I think Blood is the way to go. To define "geared", I do mean that you have the Obliterage Sigil and at least 2pc T7 and preferably are hit capped(8%) an expertise capped, including talents. You should have no greens and if you have blues, they should be comparable to epics that are currently out there. I had an undergeared DK go with my setup in a raid last night and he just could not hold his own against me versus my gear, but he told me that even as undergeared as he was compared to me, he said that his personal numbers went higher than it did before.
Before the patch, I was doing 4400 DPS on Patch(25-man) as Unholy. Last night, we full-cleared Naxx10. My DPS was 5200. I cannot imagine what it would be like if I had a full compliment of raid buffs in Naxx25 on Patch. I'll know again this Sunday, but I hit like a mother fuckin truck now.
After last night, I'm 5/5 T7 instead of 3/5. The 4pc bonus will help, but is not critical. I have the Heigan Sigil and I have the Grim Toll (armor penetration proc trinket). I also have Jawbone (2H wep). I sincerely believe that those three things are the largest contributors to my damage (Check my Armory on Novaus, ignore the lack of enchant/gems in my head/legs. I got them last night and went to bed after ther aid).
I spent a lot of time on the target dummies. Yes, the numbers were fun to sit there and watch as me and my dancing rune weapon cleaved and hit 4 targets at the same time, and it made for a temporary padding of numbers, but it wasn't practical in raids.
I used the 51/0/20 build. If you're copying my build, the points spent in Vampiric Blood, Mark of Blood and Corpse Explosion are all optional. There aren't many better blood alternatives, and you could probably spend 1 point for spell hit in the Unholy tree instead of Corpse Explosion, but fuck it, I wanted to try it and to be honest, I think it was worth it. I'm hit capped on all my attacks and I can't remember the last time a death coil missed.
I did not try 51/13/7 and after last night, I really don't have any intention to. I tried a whole variety of rotations:
(Blood Presence)
Oblit, PS, IT, HSx2 - DC Spam
HSx4, Oblit - DC Spam
(Blood and Unholy Presence)
Oblitx2, HSx2 - DC Spam
HSx6 - DC Spam
Those two rotations were good, but I found that for the first rotation, it required too much of an optimal setting, I wasn't utilizing my RP correctly and I couldn't take time out to pop Sudden Doom procs, otherwise I ended up not spending my runes the instant they were active.
In the second rotation, I found that diseaseless didn't seem to have a negative impact like it did pre 3.0.8. The Glyph of Obliterate seems to scale better and Obliterate seems to scale better overall and not rely so much on diseases. In Blood Presence, I still had a problem of having a lopsided rotation. Runes weren't getting spent fast enough. In Unholy Presence, i'd have dead time in line 1, and line 2 felt sloppy with timing sudden doom procs.
So, I finally tried this:
(Blood Presence)
OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam
No second line, just use that rotation. Trash, boss, aoe, doesn't matter. Use it. I tried D&D/IT/PS/Pest spam, but it didn't work. I used Corpse Explosion as my RP dump as available for AoE pulls. I stuck with that rotation, the simplest of all DK rotations available.
I used Hyseteria in conjunction with Dancing Rune Weapon. I hit like I never hit before. Even on Patch, I popped obscene amounts of damage. I ended 10-man Patch DPS (according to recount) with 5200 DPS. 800 DPS higher than I did in the 25-man version where I had more buffs!
My highest obliterate crit on a non-gimmick fight was 12228. I hit that on a trash mob. Maybe all the procs aligned or something, but I saw that and shit my pants. Diseaseless obliterate for over 12k, hahaha. Heart Strikes are still relatively weak compared to Obliterate, but when they hit two mobs, its powerful.... and I think that the damage of a cleaving Heart Strike is still above and beyond what AoE seems to be capable of, especially when its only 2-4 mobs.
I may see about re-adjusting my spec. It's wrapped around diseases still (like all 51/0/20 specs are) and I'm going to see if there's a way to sneak points and place them elsewhere. I don't really see any alternatives, so probably not and if my tests don't pan out so well, I can just flip to diseases again without respecing.
So, that's my two cents about DK's only 2 days after 3.0.8. I'm going to continue to use 51/0/20, OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam until more sound numbers come out. If you're geared for it, I recommend you give it a shot.
For everyone else, I'd probably stick to 17/0/54 Unholy and if you're a dualwield kinda guy, maybe look to going back to a 2H until someone comes out with a better DW spec.
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I melt faces. |
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awesome
Premium
join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH
 ·Windstream
| Arch, do you feel that if the best DK build/rotation involves not using diseases they will nerf that build/rotation?
I definitely feel that way. I get the feeling they want diseases to be a major part of playing a Death Knight, and if the cookie cutter is to not even use diseases, I think something will change. Perhaps not a nerf, but maybe a buff to the diseases.
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wheresmedrink.wordpress.com |
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JamesT3
join:2008-11-17
Northport, NY
| reply to Archivis
Thanks for posting this, Arch. I'm only level 63 now, but I'm planning on using the 17/0/54 build for DPS when I hit 80 (and I'm also leveling Unholy, so I have a lot of those talents now).
Have you tried tanking to any serious degree as well? Since Unholy is my DPS build, I think I'll probably go with Frost for tanking - the up-front damage offered by this spec is just too hard to pass up, even though I know Unholy can do well also.
Now, hopefully Blizzard implements the dual-spec system before I hit 80!  |
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awesome
Premium
join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH
·Windstream
| Don't count on dual-spec anytime soon.
I've tanked with both Frost and Unholy. I preferred Unholy to Frost, but that's more of a playstyle choice. Both worked. I didn't die and I held threat with both specs.
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wheresmedrink.wordpress.com |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to awesome
While I have a set of tanking gear in the bank, I have not worked on tanking. DK tanking has a few "oh shit" buttons and a couple of mitigation buttons to keep maintained, but for the most part, it is still largely about threat generation, where standard DPS rotations apply, swapping a strike out for a mitigation cooldown instead.
As for "nerfing" the abilities... yes, I agree that once Blizzard finds this out, that they'll modify it. Personally, I don't mind mashing 2-3 buttons. It allows me to focus more on the fight, rather than juggling cooldowns/rotations/timers/etc. OBx2, HSx2, DC Spam.
In my 10-man, typically the whole lot of us sit towards the top and juggle first place on boss depending on who it favors. Last night, no one touched me. Second place was 20% behind me.
I think that I've gotten everything out of 10-man Naxx that I possibly can now. I need to save my 25-man DKP so I can get a 220 DPS weapon and cap out on gear. I still have some upgrades to go.
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I melt faces. |
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Swillx
join:2009-01-12
| I still need the obliterate sigil  , yet to see it drop. 10 man naxx is now worthless to me, as are 10 man emblems. I have the 220wep though, betrayer of humanity.
Anyways, Last night running heroics i found myself not bothering with diseases either..and actually seeing better dps for not bothering with them. I'm 51/13/7...i guess its time to go 51/0/20. |
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Swillx
join:2009-01-12 | Oh and I came from a DKP guild in BC, now in a guild that does rolls and a little bit of loot cons. Way better then DKP, DKP hinders a guilds progression imo. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | I find that players hinder progression more than loot distrubtion hinders progression. |
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Swillx
join:2009-01-12
| Agreed. But rolling, and then also taking a look at who would get the bigger upgrade helps gear the guild as a whole faster, thus making progression easier. DKP you often get a select few, usually officers, getting completely max'd overbidding the people that cant make as many raids still with some blues. And yeah maybe they deserve it more, but i personally prefer the sharing and generosity that my guild has. The moto since I joined has always been not to care to much about loot but rather guild progression.
DKP in my old guild was a big bidding greed fest where someone would take gear that was extremely slight in upgrades away from someone where it might have been a big upgrade. |
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slashr
join:2009-01-21
Alexandria, VA
| DKP is by far the worst thing I've ever seen in the game. It's always guild officers deciding if they want something, and then throwing scraps to everyone else to fight over. If I come to the raid and put in hours in there, I should have just as much right to roll. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Swillx
There are other factors to include more than "who its the largest upgrade for". Attendance, dedication, skill, etc. In a world where everyone shows up to every raid and will stick with it for years to come, yes, your system would make sense.
In a system where folks come and ago and people vary on a degree of skill levels, DKP wins out.
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I melt faces. |
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Swillx
join:2009-01-12 | reply to slashr
Thats exactly how it was in my old guild. |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| reply to Archivis
in the guild i am in when we roll on something. the individuals look at each others gear and if they see the it is a bigger upgrade for the other they let them have it even if they won the roll. we all have become really good friends. and even a lot of them are RL friends. live together and work together. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Do you guys have little parties on the weekends where one of you dresses up like a policeman, the other as an indian chief and another a construction worker? |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | sure. didn't i see you there as the biker... lol... |
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Arcmortal
@rcn.com | reply to Archivis
Re: [ Classes] DK best DPS spec
Archivis...What build are you useing now? What is your dps and what rotation are you useing?
Any help to improve my dps will be thankful. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Arcmortal :
Archivis...What build are you useing now? What is your dps and what rotation are you useing?
Any help to improve my dps will be thankful.
2H frost tonight. Blood Tap, IT, BS, OBx2, FSx3 repeat |
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Grave
@verizon.net | Blood tap is 1min cool down. How do you work that into your rotation? |
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