| Tired of the "us" vs. "them" mentality. We've allowed the debate about broadband to become a vocal slug fest with an "us" versus "them" mentality. Those with ready access (generally urbanites) looking down on and dismissing the needs of those communities that cannot get access. In large part, I blame federal regulators and their lack of a national policy (that would hopefully also keep carriers from selectively dumping less-populated markets). I'm not sure the new administration will be an improvement, their proposed broadband spending is minimal.
Unless we're willing to understand that the lack of a national policy and broader deployment will make our country as a whole less competitive, we'll continue to get sucker punched by US carriers. In the meantime, those nations willing to invest in countrywide deployment will overtake us economically, not just technologically.
Did the debate about other "utilities" sound like this one, with urbanites saying they should be the only areas served by electric companies?
Being a former urbanite who lived on the east coast most of my adult life, I have no tolerance for the divisive "us" vs. "them" rhetoric. It doesn't serve any of us. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Yep, though even some urban areas get lame internet. Max speed in Denver 17 Mbps on Qwest (20 mbps minus 15%) for dang expensive, with about 700k up. Comcast business cable is $90, 16/2. 8/2 is the highest end residential tier, $65. $60 for 6/1. Meh, no...
Problem: DOCSIS 3 isn't gonna get deployed in non-competitive areas, unless you've got a decent co-op-style cable company. Windjammer ain't it. Yeah... |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to voipdabbler
"Utility"?
Broadband is not a utility - not yet at least.
As soon as it is recognized as a utility, then it will surely get treated as such.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| said by dadkins:"Utility"? Broadband is not a utility - not yet at least. As soon as it is recognized as a utility, then it will surely get treated as such. I think we're on the cusp of the Internet being considered as a utility. (Electricity and phone service weren't considered essential either when first introduced.) With a baby bell (Verizon) talking about moving the majority of their phone service from switched circuits to VOIP, I think we're almost to the point of having to categorize the Internet as a utility, too. Perhaps, that's the best thing to happen to change the shape of the dialog on broadband policy in this country. (Even though I worry about the national security implications of moving so much of the operations of our critical infrastructures to the Internet, which is so easily susceptible to remote attack by foreign enemies; hopefully, our national broadband policy discussions in future will also cover the very important aspect of security policy.) |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
1 edit | Metered billing?
Unlimited use as long as you pay your bill?
Standardized speed for everyone everywhere?
What speed is to be the standard?
Don't think so...
Too many people will get their panties in a wad.
I welcome metered billing!
I don't see it happening anytine soon.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| reply to iansltx
said by iansltx:Yep, though even some urban areas get lame internet. Max speed in Denver 17 Mbps on Qwest (20 mbps minus 15%) for dang expensive, with about 700k up. Comcast business cable is $90, 16/2. 8/2 is the highest end residential tier, $65. $60 for 6/1. Meh, no... Lame internet = 6/1 slowest and 17 'available' ??
You're drinking the same KoolAid as the NYT. Get out of town and look at what the VAST majority of your own state geography has available.
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3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !' |
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| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:"Utility"? Broadband is not a utility - not yet at least. As soon as it is recognized as a utility, then it will surely get treated as such. The main media that carry broadband are utilities - telephone lines and cable TV lines. Broadband is just not yet considered an essential utility, but it is getting there. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to jay_rm
I'm talking about Denver, an urban area in Colorado.
Fastest Qwest has here is 5/896 (more like 4.2/700).
Which means no DOCSIS 3 for a long time, since DOCSIS 1.1 can keep up with FTTN ADSL2+ as long as Comcast is smart about things...
And yes, I know what it's like to have lousy broadband options. I just happen to live in town and don't want to be a glutton for punishment. Back home, 512k for $43/month.
Also, you can get service slower than 6/1...$40 per month for 1.5/896 (1.3/700) or $47 per month for 3-7/896 (2.5-6/700) through Qwest DSL. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to jay_rm
Additionally I don't pretend that the future is rosy, or that we'll soon be faster than Japan on 'net access speeds. I'm not a shill for the cable/telcos and I'm just pointing out that large cities may also be limited in internet access (DOCSIS 3/FiOS/fiber-above-DSL-speed = not limited). |
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 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | reply to dadkins
I'd be happy with a true metered billing system as well, not the overage penalty model that seems to be taking root.
They shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it too. (whatever the hell that means)
If a more realistic minimum cost starting point was available, I'd be totally on board. If I'm away fishing in the Caribbean all month, I don't want to have to pay $50+ dollars. How about $10 or even $20. At least something that is a bit more fair to those that rarely use any internet resources. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:said by dadkins:"Utility"? Broadband is not a utility - not yet at least. As soon as it is recognized as a utility, then it will surely get treated as such. The main media that carry broadband are utilities - telephone lines and cable TV lines. Broadband is just not yet considered an essential utility, but it is getting there. Cable TV is not a utility.
Electricity and water are.
Utilities are widely available to households... sadly, cable is not available to many households - electricity usually is.
Broadband is getting there, but until it is universally(more or less) available, and standardized - well, we get to wait.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to jmn1207
Absolutely!
Everyone gets the same ??mbps speed, charged a connection fee of $10 or $20, then $0.xx per GB used.
Bring it!
I kill Comcast at 30-35GB per month. 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| reply to dadkins
Well, if infrastructure of existing utilities, such as phone service, are moved to the Internet, it begins to drive the conversations in a different direction, because the access to broadband will become essential for utilization of the utility. You need adequate broadband for VOIP to work. I don't see people agreeing to do without phone and a majority of the under served areas lacking broadband also lack cellular to make it a viable alternative to the loss of landlines. (The last FCC-published data showed that only 150 of the 428 cellular Rural Service Areas had any type of cellular coverage available for local service--even though some unserved areas had towers that were available for roaming for customers of major carriers just passing through--figures.)
In a way, maybe Verizon's comments, which they immediately started back peddling from, will force regulators and politicians to begin seriously discussing a national broadband policy. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
2 edits | Just because VZ decides to go VoIP, there is still many places that are not served by VZ.
Here, the POTS provider is AT&T(formerly SBC).
I haven't had POTS service for... 17 years? 18 years?
It takes more than simply switching voice to IP to make broadband a utility.
I look forward to some sort of standardization.
My outlets for electricity are right at 120V... what's yours?
I have 240V in the garage, how about you?
I have 16mbps internet... what's yours?
There are a few more things to get worked out still before broadband internet can be considered a utility.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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1 edit | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:Cable TV is not a utility. Cable TV is a utility. It is regulated by the board of public utilities office of cable TV in this state.
»www.nj.gov/bpu/divisions/cable/
Cable TV also uses utility easements to run their infrastructure.
The NJ BPU also defines cable TV as a "critical service":
»www.nj.gov/bpu/about/index.html
"The Board of Public Utilities is a regulatory authority with a statutory mandate to ensure safe, adequate, and proper utility services at reasonable rates for customers in New Jersey. Accordingly, the NJBPU regulates critical services such as natural gas, electricity, water and telecommunications and cable television."
It is very much a utility. |
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CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO | reply to voipdabbler
said by voipdabbler:Did the debate about other "utilities" sound like this one, with urbanites saying they should be the only areas served by electric companies? Well actually, yes. It took decades from when reliable electrical service was available in the major cities (more-or-less available from the turn of the century) to when it was reliably available everywhere (the Rural Electrification Agency and the Tennessee Valley Authority were part of Roosevelt's New Deal in the '30s).
And even then, there was considerable argument over whether electricity should be a government run and regulated "utility" or something run by private enterprise.
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"2 Strangers + 1 20 minute ceremony + $50 + 10 shots of tequila = Holy Matrimony and 1st Class Protections Under the Law… now that’s crazy!" |
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| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:Just because VZ decides to go VoIP, there is still many places that are not served by VZ. Here, the POTS provider is AT&T(formerly SBC). I haven't had POTS service for... 17 years? 18 years? It takes more than simply switching voice to IP to make broadband a utility. I look forward to some sort of standardization. My outlets for electricity are right at 120V... what's yours? I have 240V in the garage, how about you? I have 16mbps internet... what's yours? There are a few more things to get worked out still before broadband internet can be considered a utility. Verizon's plans have much more significance because they are one of the baby bells created after the break up of the original AT&T monopoly. Verizon's plans, along with their sibling CLECs will have the greatest impact across the country because of the sheer size of the baby bells.
Whether you like it or not, the actions of the baby bells in moving from switched circuits to VOIP means that the politicians and regulators will be forced to address national broadband policy. Failure to do so runs the risk of areas being left with no telecommunications service, since many of the same areas lacking broadband have no cellular, period. And the fact you can look at a roaming map and say, gee I can get roaming service on my cellphone doesn't mean anything. Federal regulators have done a great disservice to the public by allowing carriers who've won spectrum to limit their service to roaming while denying local residents any coverage. Again, the last FCC-published data showed only 150 of 428 cellular Rural Service Areas had any cellular coverage. If federal regulators plan on allowing switched circuits to die off, they're going to have to develop a national broadband plan that will deliver broadband to all areas to retain current communications capabilities. They cannot afford to have vast areas of the country unserved by any form of telecommunications service and expect to win re-election. Verizon may regret their comments simply because it bumps the issue up the ladder more quickly, given their original statements about the timing on moving away from switched circuits (timing that's much sooner than many analysts had predicted). |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
2 edits | Whether I like it or not is irrelevent.
VZ is not the end all be all of determining whether or not something happens.
Yes, VZ is one of the bigger fish in the baby bell pool, but SBC/AT&T is also a baby bell.
Just because one of the baby bells is doing this, doesn't mean they will be the deciding factor.
Maybe if they all did, it would be different and happen a bit quicker.
We shall have to wait and see, won't we? 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to voipdabbler
broadband isnt a utility, but my god if some guy cant load his emails from outlook he calls up the ISP and acts like someone who lots their gas and electric on a 1 degree day during a blizzard.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | reply to dadkins
dadkins
You really think SBC/at&t is switching to Uverse for just tv and internet? It is not an "if" situation. It is a "when" situation. |
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