ISP Lobbyists Shape Broadband Stimulus Plan > Stimulus?

Stimulus?

Because those corporations take the money and hire people with it or at least can avoid laying off people. Those workers pay income taxes and spend their income. The people who supply goods and servies to those corporations pay taxes and spend their income. Those people to supply the suppliers hire people who pay taxes and spend their income.

Every time a dollar changes hands, the gov't takes a chunk (which is replaced by the value of labor). Stimulus, done correctly in fact stimulates economic growth, hence the word stimulus.

The policy of the last 8 years has been to export good paying jobs in tech and light manufacturing, thus removing a good chunk of econmic self-stimulation. Those jobs have to be replaced and the weakened economy can't do it by itself. It has to be restructured through new industry creation (like GM's new battery facility in Mi) and getting jobs back to the US by giving up the B.S. notion of free-trade being fair-trade.

Running hundred billion dollar plus trade deficits with China for years and giving a trillion to terrorist oil nations was not sustainable, but the previous administration did ZERO to reverse it.

Wrong, it doesn't go to the shareholders unless the company pays dividends...where are these huge dividends you are referring to? That is unless you count the stock price not going to zero as being a shareholder freebee, then yeah...all of those old ladies with 401Ks and union pensions won't see their retirement portfolios go to zero. How greedy of them.

How does it reach the rank and file workers? Let's look at GM...they're building a new battery manufacturing facility for the Volt and like products in Michigan that will employ a TON of NEW workers. And then there are those who would supply this new plant with materials used to make the batteries. That is how stimulus works. And there is no such thing as an orderly bankruptcy. Allowing the big 3 to fold would DECIMATE their light manufacturing suppliers putting a great many out of business and their tax paying workers into the street. And for what? Some misguided free markets can solve all problems dogma? Sorry. There is in fact a time and place for gov't intervention and that time is now.

As far as financial stimulus, the capital injection stopped dead in it's tracks the cascade of bank failures which would have included both Citi and BofA which would in turn have ended with a total global meltdown of 1000's of bank failures. You would have been wishing for merely a Great Depression if the major US banks were allowed to fold. And with no liquidity there would be no one left to buy up the shrapnel.

reply to Dogfather
Well said Dogfather,

I applaud Obama for trying something new, even though there are painful decisions that must be made now. He is right that we need to change the way things are like not depend on foreign oil, putting pressure on tougher CO2 emissions, produce more efficient cars, more sustainable goods and products, sustainable alternative energy. By injecting these new directives, it will have a trickle down effect on other products and jobs. And you are right, it is the process of the dollar exchanging hands at all levels that taxes are being paid. more people buying and exchanging goods and servics, more money gets put into the system. The last 8yrs of hands off, less regulation,let the market decide economics has been disastrous. It's amazing that the GOP would even let our National Mall, a symbol of America, rot in shambles, such shame.

reply to patcat88
Given the millions of people they employ either directly or indirectly, are economy hinges on the auto industry. You simply have no idea how big the economic activity of the auto industry is...I would peg them at 10% of GDP but their removal would have a cascading effect much larger than 10% of the GDP. It would even decimate "healthy" competitors like Toyota and Honda as the industry is so interconnected.

So this is just you having a bug in your ass about some "spoiled" union workers and their whopping $60K/yr jobs plus some decent benefits?

To see them get fired and thus the rest of us pay them unemployment instead of collecting taxes, you want to see millions of people laid off, hundreds if not thousands of auto industry suppliers go under and those people lose their jobs, all the retail built about around the domestic auto industry to be decimated. Awesome plan and of course the dealers and their local suppliers...the salesman, managers, mechanics and local parts shops who also supply those local dealerships (not all repair parts come from the factory)...the truck drivers who deliver the goods and services including the cars to the dealerships...the restaurants those workers go do every day...etc.

Who do you think was shopping at Circuit City? EMPLOYED PEOPLE. You put another 3 million plus out of work and start a cascade of millions and millions more and you don't think retail would be just fine? You don't think the already weakened banks wouldn't be decimated by the wave of foreclosures caused by 3 million more people being out of work and the aftereffects of that? Not every bank employee is some 7-figure investment banker. Go in to your local branch, they're young people working as tellers and the like.

And who do you think is going to restaurants? The unemployed? The homeless? It's employed people, specially those who work around these businesses. Go ask a restaurant worker how their business is going. Aside from McDonald's the industry is on its ass.

The loans to the big 3 will get paid back not only directly by them, but by the hundreds of billions of dollars in tax revenues that occur as a direct and indirect result of their continuing operations.

reply to iagree110percent
And the big 3 automakers are well on their way. Up until recently the big 3 met the huge demands of SUVs and trucks brought on by cheap oil prices. To retool takes close to a decade and the automakers started years ago.

They have tremendous innovative vehicles in the pipeline like the Volt due out late next year. GM is the first automaker to have it's own battery research and manufacturing facility, showing their dedication to the extended range electric vehicle platform. The Volt which is much like the size of a Prius is electric with a small gasoline generator for power when the battery gets low. It will get better than 600mi per tank (100+ EPA MPG) and that is only if you drive more than 40 miles per day (the vast majority of people's commute) in which case you don't use a drop of gasoline. In quality Ford and GM have made HUGE strides often leading quality indices, and now only suffering from perceived quality problems as a result of the pre-QS9000 era of the 90's. GM has more 30+MPG models than anyone else and their full size hybrid Tahoe gets the same around town MPG as a 4 banger Camry.

They just need a bridge to get them from here, to the end of the pipeline where these all-new classes of cars will certainly be a hit creating tons of jobs...good paying DOMESTIC jobs.

The problem is Dogfather that in all of these situations, the money is expected to trickle down to the consumer...while they sit and wait for it to happen. We're always expected to foot the bill to boost up orgs that make bad decisions yet the consumer is told they need to fend for themselves. The automakers aren't just caught up in market conditions although that's part of it.

I don't see a bailout for the hotel industry, firmly caught up in market situations to no fault of their own.

You want a bailout? Fine, bail out the single largest organization in this country. The American Consumer. Hand every household $100k, with no tax liability attached. Some will piss it away (just like some of these companies will do with their bailouts and like they have before) but many will pay off their personal debts and put the rest away.

But we're never important enough to do something like that. We get a pathetic $1200 check. Woo hoo.

I understand the trickle down you describe. In theory that's how it should work. But we also know all business is trying to do today is survive. Most won't get bailout money.

Once and for all, when small businesses mismanage or are caught up in market conditions and fail, they're just another blip. Another statistic. GM and the others should for once be treated the same way and let the chips fall where they may.

Otherwise, if they're deserving of a bailout just because...then so am I and every other household in this country.