dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
11114
share rss forum feed

manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

Surround sound on FIOS?

Can someone verify for me what sound output I should be getting from my FIOS. Whenever I'm watching TV (no matter the channel) the sound on my home theater says Pro Logic. But when I play a Blu-Ray/videogame on my PS3, the sound says Dolby Digital.

Here's the set-up: I have 3 HDMI cables - 1 from the FIOS box to the TV, 1 from the PS3 to the TV, and 1 out from the TV to the home theater.

Why are there different audio outputs from the two sources? Is Pro Logic comparable to Dolby Digital or not as good?

Thanks if anyone can give me any directions as to whether it should be set up better or reassure that's the correct sound output from FIOS.



joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA

1 edit

said by manhattan123:

Can someone verify for me what sound output I should be getting from my FIOS. Whenever I'm watching TV (no matter the channel) the sound on my home theater says Pro Logic. But when I play a Blu-Ray/videogame on my PS3, the sound says Dolby Digital.

Here's the set-up: I have 3 HDMI cables - 1 from the FIOS box to the TV, 1 from the PS3 to the TV, and 1 out from the TV to the home theater.

Why are there different audio outputs from the two sources? Is Pro Logic comparable to Dolby Digital or not as good?

Thanks if anyone can give me any directions as to whether it should be set up better or reassure that's the correct sound output from FIOS.
From what you have written i have to assume to are using left/right RCA cables from your TV to your H/T
You also have not listed what H/T you are using.
Using RCA's from your TV to your H/T is two channel stereo and Pro Logic may be the best you can do. If your H/T reciever has and optical input (TosLink) you can go from the FiOS STB to your H/T via Toslink for audio and get 5.1 dolby digital, you could also use the digital coax on the STB to your H/T reciever.
Idealy you would want an H/T reciever with HDMI 1.3 inputs and outputs and hope your TV is HDMI 1.3
You can run your FiOS STB to your H/T via HDMI then to your TV also via HDMI. You could do the same with your BluRay and PS3 and have the switch in the H/T set to auto so you hear what is playing through the H/T. It may sound complicated but its not. Its three wires in to your H/T and one out to your TV that way. The reciver could be pricey if the tech you have is more then a year or two old.


Poovey

@verizon.net
reply to manhattan123

I use Toslink from my 6416 STB to my Onkyo HTIB with no compression and get killer 5.1 Surround.


KenAF

join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA

4 edits

1 recommendation

reply to manhattan123

said by manhattan123:

Here's the set-up: I have 3 HDMI cables - 1 from the FIOS box to the TV, 1 from the PS3 to the TV, and 1 out from the TV to the home theater.
That's your problem. You need to run an optical audio cable (or HDMI) directly from the FiOS box to your surround receiver if you want to get Dolby Digital audio.

Your TV is requesting stereo sound (not 5.1 surround) from the Verizon DVR using EDID (the HDMI communications protocol) so that is all the TV is getting. You are then passing that stereo sound from the TV to your receiver. A few devices allow you to override what what the TV requests, but the vast majority do not.

In the future, you need to make sure you connect all your source devices directly to the surround receiver (typically using optical "toslink" cables) without going through the TV. That is the only way to ensure that you always get Dolby Digital 5.1 audio when it is available. If you need more of these cables, you can get them for around $3/ea from Monoprice.com.

manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

4 edits

Ay iy iy - I guess that's it then. Just to clarify to Joe01880, there's no RCAs anywhere, it is HDMI from FIOS box to TV, another HDMI from PS3 to TV, and then an HDMI out from TV to home theater.

KenAF - I didn't realize that it would only give me stereo coming out from the FIOS? (Just curious then - why does the PS3 give me Dolby? As mentioned, I only have the one HDMI out from TV to the home theater. I just switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 depending on whether I am watching FIOS or the PS3. But from the TV there's only the same HDMI going out to the home theater for both sources.)

Anyway, I set it up that way because I don't always want surround sound, sometimes just audio coming from the TV speakers ((I live in a NYC apt. so not the best idea to have HBO or Resistance Fall of Man blaring out at midnight in 5.1

So next question, can the FIOS box give me 2 separate audio outputs? One HDMI going to the TV (as it is right now) and then also a Toslink from the FIOS box to the home theater for when I do want to get surround sound from FIOS? (The PS3 seems fine and gives me Dolby, so I guess I don't have to change that.)

(p.s to specify, it's a Yamaha RX-V463 home theater, and a Samsung Series 5 580 TV.)

Thanks for info guys.


KenAF

join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA

2 edits

said by manhattan123:

KenAF - I didn't realize that it would only give me stereo coming out from the FIOS? (Just curious then - why does the PS3 give me Dolby?
As I alluded to, some devices allow you override what the TV requests. The PS3 is one of those devices. But 95% of the CE devices on the market act just like the Motorola DVR in this regard, overriding whatever you set in the menus with what the TV requests.

The reason for this is simple. Most televisions can't handle a Dolby Digital signal via HDMI. When force fed a DD signal, most televisions will either (a) mute the audio or (b) emit a high-pitched screeching sound.

said by manhattan123:

I just switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 depending on whether I am watching FIOS or the PS3. But from the TV there's only the same HDMI going out to the home theater for both sources.)
It you want to automate the video input switching on the TV and the audio input switching on your receiver, you could get a Logitech Harmony remote. Harmony remotes are designed around "activities" like Watch TV, Watch DVD, Watch Blu-ray, Play X-Box, etc. You click the "Watch TV" button and it switches to the appropriate input on the TV and the appropriate input on your surround receiver. You click the "Watch DVD" button and it switches to the appropriate input on the TV and the appropriate input on your surround receiver.

said by manhattan123:

So next question, can the FIOS box give me 2 separate audio outputs? One HDMI going to the TV (as it is right now) and then also a Toslink from the FIOS box to the home theater for when I do want to get surround sound from FIOS? (The PS3 seems fine and gives me Dolby, so I guess I don't have to change that.)
It should. That's the way most CE devices work.


keyboards

join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
reply to manhattan123

said by manhattan123:

...
So next question, can the FIOS box give me 2 separate audio outputs? One HDMI going to the TV (as it is right now) and then also a Toslink from the FIOS box to the home theater for when I do want to get surround sound from FIOS? ...
Thanks for info guys.
This is exactly how my setup is configured (other than specific brands of equipment). If I only want the TV sound the HDMI provides it (optical out from Sharp TV would also on give pro-logic / stereo). SPIDF (coaxial - but I'm sure optical would work as well) from STB to receiver gives me either Dolby Digital 2.0, 2.1, or 5.1 - depending on the source.

All video and audio outputs on the rear of the STB are active simultaneously.
--
REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!

manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

Great, thanks all for the feedback and info. It's annoying having to go this extra step, but at least it seems like it will be fairly simple to get around. (I wonder why they don't make the FIOS box so that it feeds out in 5.1 to the TV - they must know that a lot of people use home theater but have this same situation where they sometimes only want the sound coming out the tv speakers without always having to fire up the AVR every time.)



joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA

4 edits

said by manhattan123:

Great, thanks all for the feedback and info. It's annoying having to go this extra step, but at least it seems like it will be fairly simple to get around. (I wonder why they don't make the FIOS box so that it feeds out in 5.1 to the TV - they must know that a lot of people use home theater but have this same situation where they sometimes only want the sound coming out the tv speakers without always having to fire up the AVR every time.)
My system is a little older perhaps and i do not have the advantage of HDMI at my TV or H/T receiver. I use HDMI to DVI, no audio thru a DVI connection.

From the FiOS STB i use the RCA audio outputs to my tv. I also use the optical output from the FiOS STB to my Yamaha H/T Receiver.

I use a Harmony 670 remote, when i press watch TV it turns on my TV and the STB and the TV gets sound from the RCA outs thru the TV.

When i press Watch DVR-2 the Harmony remote turns on my TV, my STB and my Yamaha recevier and sound is now controlled thru the Yamaha and i get awesome 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound.

KenAF

join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA

4 edits
reply to manhattan123

said by manhattan123:

(I wonder why they don't make the FIOS box so that it feeds out in 5.1 to the TV
I explained this above.

On most TVs, the optical output is only to provide 5.1 surround audio output for the built in digital (ATSC/QAM) tuner. It is not meant as a pass-through for HDMI audio signals.

Only a small minority of TVs (less than 5%) can accept a 5.1 signal via HDMI and use that to produce sound for the TV speakers; in response to a 5.1 signal via HDMI, most TVs mute all audio and/or output a high-pitched screeching sound. Of those that can accept a 5.1 signal via HDMI, less than 10% can pass the DD5.1 signal (from HDMI) through the optical output on the TV. Of the few TVs that can accept a DD5.1 signal via HDMI, most downconvert that signal to stereo (2.0) for the TV speakers and the optical output.

That's why the HDMI specification provides the means for a device to request what kind of audio signal it needs, to override whatever is set by the user in settings.


stevec325

join:2008-09-16
Newtown, PA
reply to manhattan123

An alternative suggestion is to to configure like this:

STB -->HDMI --> AVR --> HDMI --> Display. This will also allow you to apply sound-field settings (PLIIx for 7.1, etc. - if desired) from your AVR to the audio coming from the STB. This is how I have my HT configured. All my inputs go to the AVR and get switched/pass through from there. I have a Blu-Ray, PS3, DVR/STB and DVD player... all connected to my AVR, via HDMI. The video goes to my display, via HDMI.

If you do not always want to use your AVR for audio, then in addition to that configuration, also run L/R stereo cables from STB -> Display. Then you will not need to use your AVR for audio. But, you will just get 2 channel audio - not DD.
--
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week"



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to manhattan123

said by manhattan123:

Can someone verify for me what sound output I should be getting from my FIOS. Whenever I'm watching TV (no matter the channel) the sound on my home theater says Pro Logic. But when I play a Blu-Ray/videogame on my PS3, the sound says Dolby Digital.

Here's the set-up: I have 3 HDMI cables - 1 from the FIOS box to the TV, 1 from the PS3 to the TV, and 1 out from the TV to the home theater.

Why are there different audio outputs from the two sources? Is Pro Logic comparable to Dolby Digital or not as good?

Thanks if anyone can give me any directions as to whether it should be set up better or reassure that's the correct sound output from FIOS.
If you were watching a non HD channel it would only be in stereo. Now the HD channels can be in stereo too, but they will be DD 2.0. I've seen the HD channels range from DD 1.0 to DD5.1 and everything in between.

cwiggins

join:2008-10-19
Brandon, FL
reply to manhattan123

For what it's worth... My TV will send a DD5.1 if I'm using the TV tuner (local channels), but if it gets a DD5.1 from the Fios STB (via HDMI) it passes it back out as 2-channel PCM. (So I send the digital audio from the STB straight to the receiver instead.)


shark2k

join:2008-06-01
West Orange, NJ
reply to manhattan123

There was to much reading for me in this thread (sorry bout the laziness) to see if this was suggested. Did the OP go to the Audio Settings in the Menu and select Surround instead of the default Stereo? That could also be a reason for not getting surround. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

-Shark2k


manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

Yes, it wasn't the settings. And, luckily, I have everything working now. As originally mentioned, I had HDMI from FIOS to TV, and HDMI from PS3 to TV, and then audio out from TV to the AVR - and was puzzled why, when I played PS3/Blu Ray, it was giving me 5.1 sound, but when I watched TV/FIOS it was only Pro Logic.

As a previous commenter explained, when the FIOS goes to the TV it only sends up stereo not 5.1, even though my TV can pass along 5.1 to the AVR (as it does with the PS3 which provides 5.1 up.) But I added a Toslink from the FIOS box directly to the AVR and now get 5.1 when I use it. (And I still have the HDMI going from FIOS to TV so I can watch without necessarily having to use the AVR.

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions and help!


pvcleave

join:2008-07-08
Newberg, OR
reply to manhattan123

The FIOS DVR box I have allows you to override the TVs request. I have HDMI to my TV and Toslink from the TV to the receiver.

Im not at home, but to do the override go to the menu you get after you turn the system off. There is another page that allows you to do the audio override.


manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

4 edits

Hi pvcleave, ok now I'm intrigued. I have way too many wires and cables around my TV and FIOS box. Are you saying there is a way I can go back to just one HDMI out from the box to my TV and one Tos out from TV to AVR and be able to get surround sound without doing a separate Toslink from FIOS box to the AVR? As mentioned, my TV is sending 5.1 from the PS3 to the AVR, so I don't think the TV is requesting less?

From KenAF's comments, I thought the original problem was the FIOS DVR did not send out 5.1 sound to the TV?

What do you mean "to do the override go to the menu you get after you turn the system off." When I turn the system off, how do I get a menu?

And just as a tangential kvetch, I wish FIOS and its techs would be more consumer-friendly about how to get surround sound. I'm sure this issue is a common problem for those of us who are not techies - ie. most customers. They set it up and leave and I'm sure a lot of people are not getting surround sound on their AVRs if this isn't done right. Most folk probably put their ears up to the rear speakers and hear some sort of sound coming out and think they are getting 5.1, but often they probably aren't.



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to pvcleave

said by pvcleave:

The FIOS DVR box I have allows you to override the TVs request. I have HDMI to my TV and Toslink from the TV to the receiver.

Im not at home, but to do the override go to the menu you get after you turn the system off. There is another page that allows you to do the audio override.
Which menu is that?

If I go to the "hidden" Setup menu (Power / Select / Menu) there is only one page and there are no audio options there.

If I go to the "hidden" diagnostics menu (Power / Select / Select) there is nothing to change there. However, under audio mode (or something like that, it says "Surround".

Now, I do not have the HDMI port connected, so that may automatically limit the selections available in the Setup menu. I have the optical link connected directly to my A/V receiver and it is reporting Dolby EX and the surround sound is definitely active.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons

sbob

join:2007-07-08
Fairfax, VA

said by Rattler:

said by pvcleave:

The FIOS DVR box I have allows you to override the TVs request. I have HDMI to my TV and Toslink from the TV to the receiver.

Im not at home, but to do the override go to the menu you get after you turn the system off. There is another page that allows you to do the audio override.
Which menu is that?

If I go to the "hidden" Setup menu (Power / Select / Menu) there is only one page and there are no audio options there.

If I go to the "hidden" diagnostics menu (Power / Select / Select) there is nothing to change there. However, under audio mode (or something like that, it says "Surround".

Now, I do not have the HDMI port connected, so that may automatically limit the selections available in the Setup menu. I have the optical link connected directly to my A/V receiver and it is reporting Dolby EX and the surround sound is definitely active.
I think pvcleave may be speaking of the "additional HDMI setting" option on the main page of the "hidden" setup menu. That will take you to another page where one of the options is "Audio Output". This can be set to Auto, L-PCM, or Pass-Through. Auto is the default setting. I assume that pvcleave set this to Pass-Through. I am work so I am speaking from memory buy I think that is how the menus are setup.

I haven't tried this myself, but it would be really nice if it works.

pvcleave

join:2008-07-08
Newberg, OR
reply to Rattler

The "hidden" Setup menu (Power / Select / Menu) there is a way to go to another page. One of the choices gives you another page. I do not think the wording is very clear, but it is there.

I will have to look at it when I am at home. One of the selections on the first page will take you to a second. I am doing this currently. I, like the OP, have both an PS3 and Fios box hooked upp to my system, and each sends out the 5.1 sound to the TV and then passes it to the reciever. When I first hooked up the HDMI cable to my TV it did not pass through the Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. I have another device, DVD player, which will not do an overide, so I know it not my TV doing anything different than his.

It has been awhile since I set it up and it took me hours to find it. To be clear, my system is very evident as to whether it is getting Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby Pro Logic.


manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

1 edit

Ok, I'm an idiot - it took me forever to find this hidden menu you guys were talking about (henceforth the name hidden, I guess!

Found the audio settings, switched it to Pass Through and voila, Dolby Digital 5.1 through the FIOS box - woo hoo.

(As noted before, BTW, I had added a Toslink directly from the box to my AVR to get 5.1 audio, but now that's one less wire I need to use to get it passed through my TV. Not to mention, I had taken the Tos from my CD player and can now put it back there.)

Thanks for all the help everyone. I wish FIOS had been as helpful in the first place when they set it up.

Cheers!


RichardH1

join:2008-03-05
Westfield, NJ

Ok, then I am more of an idiot than you. I have been following this thread with interest as I have a similar problem, however I connect the cable box to the receiver with an HMDI, and then the receiver to the TV with an HMDI cable from the receiver monitor out jack. When I do so, I get no digital sound. However, if I disconnect the HDMI from the receiver to the TV, voila, I get digital sound from the receiver. Almost as if the TV is kicking back a signal to either the receiver or I would guess more likely the FIOS box to turn off the digital out signal.

Maybe your setting will cure my problem. What screen did you go to (Power select select?) and then what sub page.

Thanks


manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

No, it's Power/Select/Menu - (you will see the box numbers change to 16:9) the hidden menu comes up, then scroll down to Additional HDMI settings, and one of those options is Audio Output. Then change it to Pass Through.


RichardH1

join:2008-03-05
Westfield, NJ

Manhattan 123:

Thanks so much. Now there are at least two happy campers. I can't tell you the run around with tech support on this. They basically said that the box was configured not to send out a digital signal, and there was nothing you could do about it other than use toslink or digital audio cable with component video. Hard to believe. I have gone without digital sound ever since I got my new plasma, over 14 months.

Also thanks to all the others in this tread that pointed us in the right direction.


pvcleave

join:2008-07-08
Newberg, OR

said by RichardH1:

Manhattan 123:
Also thanks to all the others in this tread that pointed us in the right direction.
I am glad I could finally help someone on this site.


stevec325

join:2008-09-16
Newtown, PA

1 edit

What's really confusing to me is, why did this happen?

I connected my DVR to AVR with HDMI and AVR to Plasma via HDMI...

Turned them on. Amazed there was no fire

And everything was fine. I do not have passthru enabled.

Arghhh.. I may just have to stop reading these forums
--
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week"


manhattan123

join:2008-12-01
New York, NY

Well I'm certainly not an expert, as was painfully obvious, but I guess it's because you're going from FIOS to AVR to TV as opposed to going FIOS to TV to AVR. As I noted in the OP, I set it up FIOS>TV>AVR as there are occasions I don't want to have to turn on the AVR and instead just use the TV's built-in speakers.



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA

1 edit
reply to pvcleave

On my QIP-6416-2 box:

I fiddled around in that hidden setup menu and there is no way that I can get to a second menu page for HDMI configuration - there is no link listed even concerning HDMI, no matter what TV type I choose. My video is connected via component cables (my TV does not have an HDMI port).

All that menu shows me is TV type, YPbPr output selection and a 4:3 override selection depending on what the YPbPr output is set to. It then shows a whole list of closed caption configuration choices and finally a "reset to defaults" selection at the bottom.

I am convinced that, unless you have an HDMI cable connected between the box and the TV, the added menu page link is not displayed. It's no problem for me, since it does not apply anyway (at least not ATM). I was just confused that the item wasn't there.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA

Click for full size
Sorry about the added post but to illustrate what I see, attached is a screenshot of the hidden setup menu. No HDMI link shown. If you try to scroll off the bottom from "RESTORE ALL DEFAULTS", it goes right back to "TV TYPE".
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons


joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA

With my 6416-2 Power/select/Menu bring up the screen Rattler has posted. Power/select/select bring up the advanced features menu. The one you shouldnt be screwing around in unless you know what your doing.