Da Man
join:2008-05-08
Hanover, PA | reply to openbox9
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Maybe they'll be coming along with the upgrades. Can the current tuners continue to be utilized by the MSOs moving HSI QAM channels to the added frequency range and maintaining TV in the existing range? |
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coxengr
Premium,VIP
join:2002-03-09
Atlanta, GA | reply to Da Man
Here you go:
»tinyurl.com/Motorola-1GHz
»tinyurl.com/CiscoSA-1GHz |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Time Warner went and replaced our gear with 1ghz stuff last year. But they haven't bothered to deploy new set tops, nor DOCSIS 3. Maybe they'll do something useful with it by 2020. 
-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
 ·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to Da Man
said by Da Man  :Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Eat Me :said by Da Man :Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz. Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to Eat Me
said by Eat Me :Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by espaeth :said by Eat Me :Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners. I don't see swapping out boxes for customers who want, say an additional HD tier to be a problem. After all, the cable companies always tout "free" equipment upgrades as a reason to go to cable vs satellite.
Some customer owned equipment (such as TiVo) also has MPEG-4 built in as well. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
1 edit | reply to jmn1207
said by jmn1207 :Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well. FiOS and cable are doing the same thing, except the FiOS is using wavelengths of light. Cable is using wavelength of RF. They are both electromagnetic waves.
But separate spectrums of whatever don't matter at all. All that matters is total bandwidth allocated, whether it is continuous or broken up across the spectrum.
Since Cox does plan on keeping some level of analog service, they will most likely put some digital video (digital cable) over 860MHz and towards 1GHz.
The article also mentioned MPEG-4 so it is likely that they will end up deploying new STBs with 1GHz and MPEG-4 capability. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Cable and FiOS are not the same. The full 860MHz spectrum from FiOS TV is ONLY used for their TV services and has nothing to do with the GPON or BPON ONT data bandwidth. FiOS uses the same 860MHz spectrum only so that they can utilize existing cable equipment at the homes.
Cable uses the 860MHz spectrum for everything. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
2 edits | This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz.
And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz.
Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth.
To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway.
And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Eat Me :This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz. And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz. Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth. To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway. And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves. It's not the same, Fios uses a separate wavelength of fiber that does not take away any capacity from their digital television service. Cable uses QAM channels that take up a certain amount of the frequency spectrum. Such as a 6MHz channel. There are a limited number that can be distributed. Within this 860MHz spectrum, all TV, data, and voice services are transmitted. For FiOS, ONLY the TV service is used for the ENTIRE 860MHz spectrum.
It's different.
»www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=68206
My FiOS ONT is rated up to 1.2 GHz right now. They are also ready to provide MPEG-4, but with the same issues that cable has providing the necessary STB's to everyone. The latest Motorola boxes that many FiOS customers have can already do MPEG-4. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
1 edit | 1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.
2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.
Pay attention in science class next time. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Eat Me :1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz. 2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light. Pay attention in science class next time. Please show me where cable is using separate wavelengths over coaxial cable. |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Eat Me
said by Eat Me :2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light. Pay attention in science class next time. I've never disputed this, if you read my comments I have been saying that FiOS and cable are not the same. And you keep suggesting that cable is doing the same thing with wavelengths over the RF spectrum in the same way that FiOS is using separate wavelengths over optical cable. This is not true. They are not doing the same thing.
There is a lot more bandwidth available with FTTH, even considering the upgrade to the 1GHz spectrum. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to djrobx
I think TWC has bigger issues than just deploying Docsis 3.
Running 1GHz may bring out issues in many older homes with RG-59U. I had an issue on 1 link in my house that is RG59U (DTV replaced the other 2 with RG6 a few years back).
Worked fine on DTV - but TWC digital gear didn't like it.
I ended up taking an old(er) RG6 that ran the long way around and works Ok.
Many 'older' houses may end up with issues similar to mine.
This is probably similar to AT&T with old POTS wire having issues.
--
Canada = Hollywood North |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to jmn1207
It's basic physics.
If you have two different CATV channels, one carrying TV and the other carrying DOCSIS, they are carried on different frequencies and hence different wavelengths.
The only difference is that with FiOS it is colors of light and with cable it's all RF. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to jmn1207
You have been disputing it over and over, yet the facts keep flying in your face and you just wipe it off and continue.
Yes, I agree that FTTH has more bandwidth available.
Yes I agree that GPON and fiber in general is capable of much more than coax is right now.
Yes I agree that cable is severely limited by physics, with coaxial copper cables having significantly more attenuation in dB/km than fiber.
BUT!
I do not think that matters for product offerings today nor up to 5 years from now in the USA.
I think that cable can offer all that FiOS is offering today with a move to use more RF spectrum.
Yes I do think that cable will eventually have to go fiber for the last mile, but I don't think that's necessary today to offer what Verizon is.
No I don't think that Verizon is going to offer 1GBps today for $50 or even $100. Not in this country and not in this economy.
Yes I do think that using advanced techniques such as MPEG4 compression is necessary to free up even more bandwidth.
Understood? |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | reply to Eat Me
That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by jmn1207 :That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service. DOCSIS can use any frequency that the tuner supports. If the cable system is 1GHz, it can use anywhere within that 1GHz of space. |
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