BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Opie
Re: [HSI] Charter's New Caps Policy
said by Opie :
normal" users won't have to worry about the caps as they won't get anywhere near em So if you use more than 100 GB you're not "normal" yeah I guess if this was 1999 not 2009.
"normal" users. I'm sure they can fend for themselves.
100GB is alot of data
If I sign up for MLB.tv and watch all the Rays games (26-27 games a mith ) in their 3 Mbps "HD" stream I will use about 105 GB a month JUST FOR THAT. So you were saying? Or are you sugesting that something I'd pay $110 for I'm supposed to not take full advantage of? |
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matt314159
join:2006-01-18
Hesperia, CA
 ·Charter Pipeline
4 edits | reply to Lazlow
I'd say ~80% of it is off-peak. (10pm-9am) If I have a big set of files to grab I'll start them before bed and they're done when I get up in the morning. looking at my router's graph, most of the time my usage looks "normal" but then once or twice a week three will be a spike where I use like 30GB overnight.
I'll be honest, in addition to being a "broadband centric" household, I get stuff off usenet all the time...not going to admit that to the charter lady though, of course. It just depends on what I need and when I need it. October I used around 60GB all month. December was over the cap, January was under the cap, february I'm kind of having a "light" month.
Overall I don't think the 250GB cap will be a problem for me if it stays at 250GB, but I'm not sure why I got a call when I haven't even reached half of this month's cap, and last moth I didn't really come close to it either. THough looking at my logs, I used 191GB down, and 6.8GB up. I made sure I was friendly with the lady but I did give her my opinion, and let her know that if this becomes a problem, I'll be switching to Verizon 7.1mbps DSL.
Just to give you an idea here's a screen snippet of my graph from january. Around 200GB total for the month, inbound and outbound. I think I said 150 in a previous post, but I was corrected when I went to get the graph:
Here's February so far
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to matt314159
said by matt314159  :As far as risking bricking your router, a WRT54GL is so incredbily easy to upgrade it's not even funny. My WTR54GS v6 router can NOT be upgraded. I don't think I should have to spend $50 or more and new router when the one I have have works perfectly fine for the purpose it was intended for. Charter is going by THEIR numbers anyways so they should show us what THIER numbers say. If my numbers say I used 230 that month and their showed I used 260 too bad for me. They're not going to go by what MY numbers say. |
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JeffB
Premium
join:2001-12-20
Somewhere
| reply to Opie
said by Opie :
Charter has all the tools they need to monitor it and enforce it, it's the average users who are in the dark. but then again the ones that are going to have problems with this ALREADY know they use their connections ALOT and aren't "normal" users. I'm sure they can fend for themselves.
100GB is alot of data
100GB is a lot of data -- especially when you can only download it at 3Mbps despite having a 16M connection!
I'm sure Charter does have tools for themselves, but why should we take Charter's word for it? I know I am a "difficult" customer -- I don't take $hit from a service provider who doesn't provide a level of service that is on par with my perceived value of that service -- and Charter does not. Unfortunately, there isn't much competition in my neighborhood and sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't know.
I guess I'm going to have to risk bricking my router to keep Charter honest. I don't want to rely on YOUR word anyway. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Opie
said by Opie :said by Kickenback :
Opie in order to get the code you have to wait for them to call you as it seems. who wants to wait for the phone call to get the damn code? not allot of those who use allot of the bandwidth for watching streamed videos and such.
Ok what if Charter produces a tool that gives you your total for the month, then what? Would you actually use less? if you saw that you were nearing the caps and the results of going over were overage fees, throttling down of speeds and/or service disconnection um yeah I suspect most people would. |
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matt314159
join:2006-01-18
Hesperia, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to BF69
said by BF69 :said by matt314159 :As far as risking bricking your router, a WRT54GL is so incredbily easy to upgrade it's not even funny. My WTR54GS v6 router can NOT be upgraded. I don't think I should have to spend $50 or more and new router when the one I have have works perfectly fine for the purpose it was intended for. Charter is going by THEIR numbers anyways so they should show us what THIER numbers say. If my numbers say I used 230 that month and their showed I used 260 too bad for me. They're not going to go by what MY numbers say. That's a fair point, which is why I think they need to make an easy tool to check usage. I shouldn't have to call an 800 number every time I want to check.
Also, just for the record, you can upgrade your WRT54GS v6 router to DD-WRT micro. It does take the vxworks killer, etcetera, but I did that on my WRT54G v5 and it really isn't all that hard if you follow the instructions.
To confirm compatiblity go to »www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv3/dd-wrt/hardware.html and start typing WRT54GS and then click on the v6. I know it's kind of a side comment, and I agree it should be / is charter's responsiblity to let us know where we stand. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| what exactly am I suppose to download from there? That's all friggin chinese to me. And I consider myself a fairly technical guy. |
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matt314159
join:2006-01-18
Hesperia, CA
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | said by BF69 :what exactly am I suppose to download from there? That's all friggin chinese to me. And I consider myself a fairly technical guy. Read the instructions and you can have DD-WRT on your router in about 10 minutes. 20 after reading the instructions is taken into account. You essentially run vxworks killer and then TFTP a new firmware image into the router, which it updates and you're good to go. the actual process is pretty quick.
But if you don't feel comofortable doing that, then you're stuck waiting for charter to give you a tool. We're essentially on the same page here, I agree Charter owes it to us. I just heard you say that the WRT54GS v6 can NOT be upgraded, but in fact you can. That was all. If you're not comfortable with that, then don't do it. the vxworks killer method is the one where you risk bricking your outer if you don't follow the directions properly. With the GL model, it's as easy as going to the firmware update box and browsing for the file, click update, it's done. |
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Opie
@charter.com
| reply to Kickenback
Is just the total up to that point in the month enough? For some here, the way they're bitchin, I really doubt it...
How much of a delay can you accept on such a monitor? Live? An hour behind? 24 hours behind? Do you people what a day by day, hour by hour, or minute by minute accounting? Phone bills give minute by minute, is that what you really want?
Do you want it broken down by protocol and destination IPs, kinda like phone bills give you call type and destination number?
How much detail do you want? How much do you really want Charter to track everything you do? Who else gets access to those statistics? How long til some beancounters start getting ideas of going after some of that traffic once they see what it is in such detail? |
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karsan2007
join:2007-01-28
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to Lazlow
The cap policy is not working. They should alesast increase the cap limit from 250 to 1000 I think that is fair I am asleep during the peak hours. I want to enjoy my internet not be limted to enjoy it. I am very accepting of the policy but I do not like it. |
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JeffB
Premium
join:2001-12-20
Somewhere
2 edits | reply to Opie
No, I think what we're all saying is that we don't want the caps at all and therefore there would be no reason for Charter to track anything. If this truly only affects less than 1% of Charter's customer base, isn't it more cost efficient for Charter to look the other way? I'd be interested to know how much this is going to cost Charter to "police" 1% by policing 100%. Doesn't seem too cost-effective to me.
I know a few people who do not own a TV and watch shows online. With the economy the way it is, I'm sure there are people out there trying to reduce costs -- cutting CATV and keeping cable internet allows people to get their entertainment fix and still keep their e-mail, news, etc while being able to reduce their costs. Capping, at least in my opinion, is nothing more than cable/tv/broadband providers to prevent people from dropping the TV part of their service and still get all of the benefit through their computers and paying a fraction of the cost.
Here's a way Charter can differentiate itself from their competitors. Most other providers have caps and many of them have lower caps than Charters. But, rather than follow the crowd, can't you use this to your advantage in your marketing and advertising -- "Hey look, all of the other providers have ridiculously low caps. Charter has no caps. We want you to enjoy your Internet connection to the fullest. Get your rich media content -- streaming music, streaming video, Hi-Def streaming TV and movies." I guess you layed-off all of your marketing folks? |
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Kickenback
| JeffB, i agree with you. as i work nights i am unable to watch t.v. so i watch online when i get home. as that is the only way i can watch them. with these caps being put in place it looks like i'll be watching less of my shows. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
2 edits | said by Kickenback :
JeffB, i agree with you. as i work nights i am unable to watch t.v. so i watch online when i get home. as that is the only way i can watch them. with these caps being put in place it looks like I'll be watching less of my shows.
Not necessarily. Ok say you're on the 16 Meg tier. And say you dedicate half of that to watching online TV. Ok so that's 125 GB per month. Now say you like to watch "HD" version of your shows. Ok a site like Hulu streams HD at 2500 kbps. Now say audio is 192 kbps( doubtful but let's go with that ). So you'd be able to watch 144 one hour shows per month. Or about 3 1/2 actual hours of streaming per day. That's only using HALF your allotted cap for that. Does Hulu and other sites even have the much new HD content every month?
To be honest if you take away online viewing I'm not sure I would come close to using 125 GB for everything else. One could probably dedicate 175 GB for online viewing and 75 GB for everything else. That would allow you to watch about 5 hours of online TV per day. And if that's if you watch "HD" streams. If you "settle" for SD then you get in 8-10 hours a day.
Hopefully if only 1% of Charter's customers are currently using more than 250 GB per month then when it hits 10% or higher they'll up the caps or risk losing a TON of customers. I don't think the ISPs thought that part out. Sure if my only other choice is at&t and they have even worse caps one could say I'm not going anywhere. Ok that doesn't mean I won't cancel my cable out of spite and go with DirecTv. Either way Charter is losing $60+ a month. Even if only 1% of their internet customer base does that, Charter loses $2 mil a month. In as bad shape as Charter is that's a lot of money to lose.
Charter likes bundles so maybe Charter should have a bundle package where if you have cable and internet you get a higher or even no cap. If Charter is worried about losing video customers to internet that would be a good way of keeping them. |
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stealth50k
@charter.com | reply to HappyBunny
Right now i just surf youtube and other video sites along with surfing. I am already at 60GB. This is just one computer also. Theres 5 computers here also. Hopefully the caps get erased or something. |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
4 edits | reply to HappyBunny
I got a call from Krista/Kristen or whatever it was yesterday, but wasn't here at the time. Called her back and missed her. She called back about 5 minutes later. Had a GOOD long talk with her. She got my info from the copy of the e-mail I sent in that somebody quite a few pages back posted. She was from some office in Columbia, SC.
The caps ARE NOT in effect as of yet and there will be a way for EVERYBODY to monitor your usage through a 1-800 number. They ARE going to notify people who are approaching the limit to let you know.
I told her about this site and some of the issues we were having dealing with this practice. I'm sure that's why a couple of you got the call from her. Whoever that poopsgonnafly person is (back a couple pages) must've been the other person she said she had gotten the same, exact message from.
She did put my mind at ease some, but still sounds rather shakie to me.
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ |
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MrFixit1
join:1999-11-26
Madison, WI
| reply to matt314159
matt314159 Have you called that number to see what Charter claims you have used ?
Just wondering how close it is to what your logs are showing .
I just have this bad feeling that they are counting everything sent to or from the modems mac address ,blocked or not .
Combine that with protocol overhead , and our " usable " bandwidth is going to be far short of the caps  |
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Darkk
join:2003-10-03
Almont, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to HappyBunny
Not sure about the alternative router software, having never tried that.
I'm using net-traf, an add-on to my IP Cop dedicated router/firewall box, and am using that to keep an eye on my usage. I do have a wireless AP on a separate local subnet, have it secured, and can chart usage on that separately from the wired LAN.
So far no surprises, wired or wireless.
But the modded modem issue has me thinking that it's a good thing that I can show the total wired/wireless usage that my router reports to me, should it ever come to that. If it ever does, I can at least show to Charter what portion of what they are seeing was actually me, and get a new modem with a different MAC.
Sounds like the MAC spoofing issue is going to be more and more important now with the cap situation. I'd like to hear an official statement as to how Charter is going to secure the network better to avoid this, if they can. |
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PaulTTU
join:2009-02-12
Cookeville, TN
| reply to HappyBunny
I really want to know how they come up with these caps..
From Comcast ( »help.comcast.net/content/faq/Fre···xcessive )
"The vast majority - more than 99% - of Comcast customers will not be impacted by a 250 GB monthly bandwidth or data usage threshold."
From Frontier ( »www.frontier.com/5GB/ )
"Customer usage varies by household and by market. Our typical Frontier household uses less than 1.5GB or 1,500 megabytes a month. Many of our customers use a lot less than this amount and we only have a small number of customers who use more than this amount."
Was there some actual research done, or did Charter just take a page out of Comcast's book, which still may be some made up figure? Does anyone have any real, unbiased data about transfer amounts for a typical residence? |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by PaulTTU :I really want to know how they come up with these caps.. From Comcast ( » help.comcast.net/content/faq/Fre···xcessive ) "The vast majority - more than 99% - of Comcast customers will not be impacted by a 250 GB monthly bandwidth or data usage threshold." maybe NOW but wait a year or 2. Also Comcast said only 1-1000 go over their cap Charter say 1% which is 1-100 so does that mean Charter customers use 10X the bandwidth? Doubtful.
From Frontier ( » www.frontier.com/5GB/ ) "Customer usage varies by household and by market. Our typical Frontier household uses less than 1.5GB or 1,500 megabytes a month. Many of our customers use a lot less than this amount and we only have a small number of customers who use more than this amount."
I think these CEOs think everyone is retarded. At least when I occasionally pull numbers out of my ass I try to make them sort of accurate or at least seem logical. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to matt314159
said by matt314159 :You essentially run vxworks killer and then TFTP a new firmware image into the router, right there you lost me. |
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