 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to tshirt
Re: Can they sustain it said by tshirt: $125M in government backed bonding helps alot to keep prices down, as well as no profit motive. at some point they may need to raise prices, but this is a pretty good Promo The "no profit motive" is a bit of a misnomer. While they arent a 'for profit' company like Cox or ATT, they still need to make money. All that equipment, fiber, man hours, vehicle maintenance, etc, etc, etc, doesnt pay for itself. They still are technically making a decent profit as otherwise they would run out of money in no time. Now of course, (in theory) they are supposed to put that money right back into the network however.
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| That's not profit, all they pay is operating costs, debt service (should be pretty cheap right now) and a fairly small amount of pincipal. in the operating costs account the should be accumulating a reasonable reserve for repair/replacement, service expansion
somewhere down the line if they suffer massive,sudden, unanticipated plant damages (*(say a storm/earthquake/flood/ fire they'll need to borrow more for repair which will force a rise in customer prices.
That's alot different than have raised money on the open market, and paying investors a premium return to finance an overbuild (would be considered fairly risky for a private company), debt service could exceed 10% return before one inch of fiber was layed vs 2-3% gov't (homeowner) backed bonds |
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| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:said by tshirt: $125M in government backed bonding helps alot to keep prices down, as well as no profit motive. at some point they may need to raise prices, but this is a pretty good Promo The "no profit motive" is a bit of a misnomer. While they arent a 'for profit' company like Cox or ATT, they still need to make money. All that equipment, fiber, man hours, vehicle maintenance, etc, etc, etc, doesnt pay for itself. They still are technically making a decent profit as otherwise they would run out of money in no time. Now of course, (in theory) they are supposed to put that money right back into the network however. If it is all about profit then having faster cheaper broadband would be pointless...
We would all be stuck on ISDN which cost more then adsl and cable even back then...
We need to be driven by technology and motivation to move forward not on money gain and losses
Because in truth money is just an exchange of service or product...
You make a dollar you spend a dollar
you make a million you spend a million
It just an illusion of something that is not there.
What give it value is what we believe what it is worth.
It is infact an invisible object that everyone trust to exchange whatever we need or want.
Broadband can be as cheap as 10 dollar,as costly as 100 dollar or 1000 dollar... speed is not what determine price.
satellite cost 100 dollar a month and it is as slow as dialup in term of upload...
I have no problem with att, comcast, cox, timewarner going out of business and replaced by faster and cheaper internet service by 3rd party.
I am so sick and tired of their monopoly as long as they are in business we would never see faster cheaper broadband in the near future. They want to keep cheaper, faster alternative canned to stay in business much like aol dialup who doesn't want to offer anything faster or lower their price. cheaper broadband alternative is their worst enemy and they will fight it to keep it out of the market.
if dialup is all we are offered even thought faster connection is possible what can we do? |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to tshirt
said by tshirt: That's not profit, all they pay is operating costs, debt service (should be pretty cheap right now) and a fairly small amount of pincipal. You are correct that the term is not "profit", however its the principal I am discussing. The entity in question (local gvmt) cant just break even or they will lose money. They need to make some profit to cover their costs. If not, the taxpayers are in for a surprise sooner than later....
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to jadebangle
said by jadebangle:I am so sick and tired of their monopoly as long as they are in business we would never see faster cheaper broadband in the near future. They want to keep cheaper, faster alternative canned to stay in business much like aol dialup who doesn't want to offer anything faster or lower their price. cheaper broadband alternative is their worst enemy and they will fight it to keep it out of the market. if dialup is all we are offered even thought faster connection is possible what can we do? Dont get me wrong I am all for these people having another choice for broadband. I think the bigger argument here is that most people fear that this will end up costing the taxpayers more money.
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 NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | reply to wifi4milez
KGB  |
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RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to wifi4milez
Profit is what is left over once you cover your costs. What makes this work is not needing to sustain a stock price, quarterly dividends or a high return on investment. When you can concentrate on the long term rather than the next quarter (or for some companies, next week) and have the local government-owned utility subsidizing the construction through bonds it's not terribly difficult to make ends meet.
Now, if they can just keep their fingers out of the cookie jar. This is Louisiana, after all... |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to NOCMan
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc:Profit is what is left over once you cover your costs. What makes this work is not needing to sustain a stock price, quarterly dividends or a high return on investment. When you can concentrate on the long term rather than the next quarter (or for some companies, next week) and have the local government-owned utility subsidizing the construction through bonds it's not terribly difficult to make ends meet. Now, if they can just keep their fingers out of the cookie jar. This is Louisiana, after all... Only time will tell. We all saw how successful UTOPIA was.....
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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said by RadioDoc:Now, if they can just keep their fingers out of the cookie jar. This is Louisiana, after all... You have the nerve to say that coming from Chicago? You need to look in your own backyard. |
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JBear
join:2005-02-24
canada | reply to wifi4milez
UTOPIA?
"Created by a collaboration of cities in Utah, UTOPIA stands for Utah Telecommunication Open Infrastructure Agency. This open fiber network links multiple cities and fosters competition among communication service providers who offer Internet, television, telephone and other services, giving customers the freedom to choose their own service providers, the best prices, and absolutely the best service."
Was it successful? I am really hoping it is because it seems like such a great idea. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by JBear:Was it successful? I am really hoping it is because it seems like such a great idea. It failed big time and the taxpayers took it on the chin. |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | reply to wifi4milez
I think someone else pointed this out and I don't mean to be picky but the basic economic principle of profit is generally the amount left over after operating costs, debt retirement, capital improvements and reserves are fully funded. An organization that is classified as non-profit would never have any amount left over. If it did, it would refund the left over amounts to those which it provides service.
I do understand what you are saying but using the term profit is at best, very confusing.
What would eventually surprise taxpayers is if the utility only funded operating costs and debt retirement without building up reserves to cover the eventual need to replace portions of the infrastructure as it ages.
A perfect example of this problem is our nation's interstate highway system. In 1956 our nation started construction. Although expansion continues, the original plan was considered complete in 1992 when the eastern and western halves of I-70 were connected in Colorado. Just yesterday I heard that the system now needs ~$2 trillion to fix current infrastructure deficiencies. Obviously the government has not been funding the necessary reserves to replace and improve the system as portions of it exceed their useful and safe life span. (Consider the Minneapolis I-35 bridge as an example...) Obviously we taxpayers are "surprised" and... left holding the bag... |
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They have successful deployments but their financial picture isn't as good as they originally estimated. Cities may end up having to pay debt service on the bond payments where in the beginning they were hoping the network could pay for itself. Part of the problem was the bureaucracy of the federal RDA funding, another part was the dirty tactics of Qwest and Comcast and lawsuits trying to hold it up, another part is incumbent telcom lobbyists that keep pushing laws in the state to hamper the network, and finally, it was managed well from the start. It's not a failure yet--many cities have 30/30 connections up and running for about 50,000 businesses and residents, but this is still short of the goal of over 100k and it is over-budget. Still, there are signs that it has helped the economic development in those cities and even though cities may end up paying debt service, I don't think you can say it's a total loss, unless you are a competing wireless company or incumbent who is eager to write the whole thing off as nothing but a failure. More info at a great website, www.freeutopia.org |
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 batageekSlave To The DuopolyPremium
join:2003-01-25 | reply to wifi4milez
With LUS, the city can offer the service directly. UTOPIA forced the cities to be wholesalers of fiber.
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by batageek:With LUS, the city can offer the service directly. UTOPIA forced the cities to be wholesalers of fiber. Like I said before, I wish them the best of luck and lets see what happens.
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said by wifi4milez:said by jadebangle:I am so sick and tired of their monopoly as long as they are in business we would never see faster cheaper broadband in the near future. They want to keep cheaper, faster alternative canned to stay in business much like aol dialup who doesn't want to offer anything faster or lower their price. cheaper broadband alternative is their worst enemy and they will fight it to keep it out of the market. if dialup is all we are offered even thought faster connection is possible what can we do? Dont get me wrong I am all for these people having another choice for broadband. I think the bigger argument here is that most people fear that this will end up costing the taxpayers more money. Money is not a problem for most of us
Its availability is the problem
You can pay someone a million a month if you like but if they don't offer the speed and technology you want, their is nothing you can do.
for your info, taxes are a scam
the rich, the few are suppose to pay taxes
we the ppl who are working for a corporate or company are not suppose to pay anything
it is for business only
how many of us own business?
very few right? but as an employee you are not suppose to pay any taxes at all...
these so called income taxes is a scam to impoverish many
you wonder why rich get richer? because they dont pay any taxes or pay very little say 1 percent LOL
These are wages, its not profit or gains
Thats what most of us don't get
You are working to feed yourself you are not a big company that make billions. Many of us are so under educated its not funny.
Jesus, it took them this long to get approved for faster broadband...
I guess we should dislike the major player who are the cause of this delay. att,comcast,charter,cox can all go to hell lol these are wallstreet gangster or thief 
we are sucker for them... we pay them so much by now they can run to the bank and laugh at how easily misguided we are.
lots of pay every month for crap asymmetrical dsl,cable.
like milking a cow that know nothing about how this scam is being played on us. |
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