Topic 'Re: Remember the 90s' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860553 en Fri, 24 May 2013 06:14:05 EDT Fri, 24 May 2013 06:14:05 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21932819 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21932819 Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:38:09 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21884323
In the case of DSL Extreme, AT&T does not allow them access to dry line DSL-DSLX can only offer lineshare.

If the FCC had truly allowed competition, then these two independents would be free to set their own customer policies, but instead the incumbents' attitude is: "it's my ball, so we'll play by my rules"

Also, practically speaking, the copper phone network was built back in the '40s and '50s and also with govt. incentives. The cable companies built their plants back in the '70s, when it was MUCH cheaper to do so (and municipal rules and policies were much less restrictive).

Not to mention that in many places, the capacity of the utility poles is maxed out, so new lines can't be attached to them. In most places, Verizon is having to replace copper cables with ones using thinner copper wires to get the weight capacity to add fiber to the poles.

Also, let's not forget that requiring the phone companies to lease their lines wholesale to competitors wasn't a 'gift'; instead it was part of an AGREEMENT they (the telcos) made (written into the Communications Act of 1996) that allowed them to enter the long distance business. Without that agreement, Southwestern Bell would NOT have been able to buy AT&T and Verizon would NOT have been able to buy MCI. The telcos got what THEY wanted, but when the quid pro quo was supposed to be given, instead they lobbied (read: BRIBED) the Republican (Powell) FCC majority then in place to not require them to uphold their part of the agreement.

In simpler terms, the telcos got their cake and gave nothing back in return.

I find it interesting that there are 5 FCC Commissioners and that EVERY anti-consumer FCC policy deuring the Bush years was approved by a vote of 3-2 (3 Republican FCC Commissioners vs 2 Democrat ones). In every case it was the 3 republican Commissioners voting to make the fat cats fatter while screwing the consumer!

Of course in the battle of the telcos vs the mom and pops, we KNEW who would win, didn't we?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21884323 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:00:49 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21879684
Then count how many had them approved but then couldn't afford to build or finish their network.

The infrastructure is VERY expensive to build and it's not like phone, electric, or water where you're almost guaranteed 100% homes passes subscription rate. Even the big 3 cable companies are lucky to get 50-60% subscription of their most BASIC services, HSI is maybe 30-40% of those basic subs, so maybe 25% of all the customers they can service.

Now you want to toss in another competitor into the mix... most have found it doesn't work as the money isn't there to pay off the original investment let alone upgrade it within a reasonable time frame...

The government can't fix what economics won't pay for.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21879684 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:47:03 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21879345
Just like AOL didn't own the POTS network, those Earthlink and DSLExtreme don't own the networks they run on either...

Also last I checked it was economics not the FCC that was preventing others from running new broadband infrastructure in your neighborhoods.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21879345 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:26:28 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21870243 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21870243 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:33:46 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21868081 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21868081 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 14:52:44 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21866706 said by sivran:

quote:
5M/896k and no caps, plus having to subscribe to landline phone service (which I currently don't do). This is Embarq DSL. I'm too far from the CO to get 10M service, plus that 896k upload is just pathetic.


Pathetic is relative. I'd gladly take 5M/896k over the 7M/~400k I get from TWC right now. Yeah, I'd trade 2 megabits down for ~500k up. In a heartbeat. :p

I'm in an AT&T area myself, but Verizon and FIOS aren't that far away, and even my crappy neighborhood has U-Verse. I kinda doubt I'll see metered billing here, but if I do, and especially with the low caps TWC has, I'll be boarding a shuttle for the Death Star for sure.
You are aware that AT&T is also experimenting with some similarly low caps (40GB) in TWO markets right now, yes?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21866706 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:53:29 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21865689 said by jmn1207:

said by fifty nine:

Your internet access was billed by the hour.
And then AOL offered unlimited service at a standard rate of $19.99. And despite a long and frustrating period for many customers fighting to get through on one of AOL's phone numbers, their user base grew astronomically. They soon dominated the industry.

If every ISP decides to go with metered billing, the one business that can offer "unlimited" service will most likely reap the benefits, even if their current infrastructure cannot keep up with the demand at first.


The flaw with your arguement is that back them, EVERYONE was on equal footing. Every dial up ISP had equal access to the POTS network. Today, only the chosen few have access to the BROADBAND networks.

All it takes is for Time Warner to do this in LA, and AT&T to follow, and I will have no choice whatsoever for unlimited broadband. See the FCC considered TWO to be competition, so that's what we have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21865689 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:41:00 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21865555 quote:
5M/896k and no caps, plus having to subscribe to landline phone service (which I currently don't do). This is Embarq DSL. I'm too far from the CO to get 10M service, plus that 896k upload is just pathetic.


Pathetic is relative. I'd gladly take 5M/896k over the 7M/~400k I get from TWC right now. Yeah, I'd trade 2 megabits down for ~500k up. In a heartbeat. :p

I'm in an AT&T area myself, but Verizon and FIOS aren't that far away, and even my crappy neighborhood has U-Verse. I kinda doubt I'll see metered billing here, but if I do, and especially with the low caps TWC has, I'll be boarding a shuttle for the Death Star for sure.
--
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon profitable cause...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21865555 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 02:48:04 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862729 said by dentman42:

said by fifty nine:

Your internet access was billed by the hour.

No, I don't remember that. I remember paying $20 for unlimited dialup access within months of the time dialup ISPs started operations in town. I've never paid by the hour or by amount transferred.
Thank you for making that correction.

Netcom did go "all-you-can-eat" eventually. Internet access went from metered to unmetered.

Going from unmetered to metered is simply backwards.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862729 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:48:47 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862711 said by Karl Bode:

That remains the problem for marketers of this idea. Like the "three strikes" idea, unless you get every carrier to engage in this en masse, then you're simply offering other carriers a way to differentiate themselves competitively.
Except the marketers have the advantage of "marketing" with monopolistic powers.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862711 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:47:00 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862666 said by kamm:

That'd be nice but unfortunately we usually don't have a choice because the entire US Big Cable Business solely exist due to MONOPOLIES - which, as always, we deny...
Unfortunately true. :(

It's not like the dialup days of the 90s where there were dozens of providers to choose from. After a couple of months of running up bills of $100 or more, I found a flat-rate provider, which wasn't very common at the time. But it caught on, and eventually all of them went-flat rate.

If there were only one or two providers to choose from back then, I doubt it would have ever gone flat-rate. And now it looks like we're taking a huge step backwards.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862666 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:39:47 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862373 said by fifty nine:

Your internet access was billed by the hour.

No, I don't remember that. I remember paying $20 for unlimited dialup access within months of the time dialup ISPs started operations in town. I've never paid by the hour or by amount transferred.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862373 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:54:23 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862169 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21862169 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:24:09 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861840 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861840 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:28:10 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861649 said by jmn1207:

said by fifty nine:

Your internet access was billed by the hour.
And then AOL offered unlimited service at a standard rate of $19.99. And despite a long and frustrating period for many customers fighting to get through on one of AOL's phone numbers, their user base grew astronomically. They soon dominated the industry.

If every ISP decides to go with metered billing, the one business that can offer "unlimited" service will most likely reap the benefits, even if their current infrastructure cannot keep up with the demand at first.

That'd be nice but unfortunately we usually don't have a choice because the entire US Big Cable Business solely exist due to MONOPOLIES - which, as always, we deny...
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861649 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:53:56 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861519
5m down just won't do for reliable netflix streaming.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861519 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:33:51 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861403 --
Come let us reason together.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861403 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:13:24 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861301 --
BlooMe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861301 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:55:46 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861285
}Davoice]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21861285 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:53:24 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860892
30M/2M and 100GB cap each way. Service Electric/PTD cable.

or

5M/896k and no caps, plus having to subscribe to landline phone service (which I currently don't do). This is Embarq DSL. I'm too far from the CO to get 10M service, plus that 896k upload is just pathetic.

or

3.5M/1M and unknown caps, varying with weather. This is Near You Networks WISP.

I want the speed so I guess I have to swallow the caps for now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860892 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:54:31 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860839 said by jmn1207:

If every ISP decides to go with metered billing, the one business that can offer "unlimited" service will most likely reap the benefits, even if their current infrastructure cannot keep up with the demand at first.There is the issue. While those few living in large cities where there is a bit more local competition won't be much affected by it cause at least one (if not more) smaller providers will offer unlimited as usual and customers will reap the benefits. For those of use in suburban or rural areas (a majority of the US) where there is only one or two providers... well, we will not have any choice. For many it's either capped provider A or dial-up provider B. For a few more it will be capped provider A, capped provider B, or dial-up C.

Consumers will definitely suffer if the major providers decide to go with this.
--

- "Techie" Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860839 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:48:37 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860744 If every ISP decides to go with metered billing, the one business that can offer "unlimited" service will most likely reap the benefits, even if their current infrastructure cannot keep up with the demand at first.That remains the problem for marketers of this idea. Like the "three strikes" idea, unless you get every carrier to engage in this en masse, then you're simply offering other carriers a way to differentiate themselves competitively.

Were Time Warner Cable a little smarter, they'd just impose high caps like Comcast, Charter, and Cox plan to do, then slowly ease them downward and impose overages in a few years very quietly while American consumers are busy guzzling corn syrup and watching Dancing With The Stars.

That's my suggestion, for what it's worth.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860744 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:37:41 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860685 said by fifty nine:

Your internet access was billed by the hour.And then AOL offered unlimited service at a standard rate of $19.99. And despite a long and frustrating period for many customers fighting to get through on one of AOL's phone numbers, their user base grew astronomically. They soon dominated the industry.

If every ISP decides to go with metered billing, the one business that can offer "unlimited" service will most likely reap the benefits, even if their current infrastructure cannot keep up with the demand at first.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860685 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:29:39 EDT Re: Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860653 said by fifty nine:

...
Well, now both of those things have come to pass so now they have every reason to cap and charge overages.
actually, the only reason they have to cap and charge overages is to suck more money out of their captive customers and not have to adequately upgrade their infrastructure

they WANT to do this and don't need a reason.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Remember-the-90s-21860653 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:26:08 EDT Remember the 90s http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Remember-the-90s-21860553
When broadband came about, it was "unlimited" by default.

I do believe that they either didn't think people would use "all you can eat" bandwidth or they just couldn't meter cost effectively.

Well, now both of those things have come to pass so now they have every reason to cap and charge overages.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Remember-the-90s-21860553 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:13:05 EDT