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Jaydee

@optonline.net

New FiOS install, Brooklyn NY, 50/20, TV, PSTN need advice

Hi all!

Gonna have the 50/20, HD Extreme + Movies Pack, HM-DVR, 5 other HD-STBs, PSTN installed to a 3 floor house. I have a bunch of questions on how to proceed, and hoping to find guidance from those well experienced here.

I apologize in advance for the length of my post but I want to be as accurate as I can be.

1) My bedroom and office rooms are on the 3rd fl, and that is where my LAN currently is, and where I do my IT work from. For the rest of the family (lower 2 floors) I was simply going to set them up to use the wireless connection. I would require the Actiontech router to be on the 3rd fl with me, since I will be the only one utilizing its' features to manage the LAN for all.

(Side question: Is the AT also used for the 50/20 plan or do they use something else? Is it be able to adequately handle the speeds? And provide a decent wireless connection throughout the house? (at least 10mbps or so to the 1st floor? I've an old (5 yrs?) netgear "b" router that we pull 7mbps down on the 1st fl) )

2) Video may be tricky. There are 3 Video outlets on the 3rd floor, 1 on the second, and 2 on the 1st floor. The coax network on the 3rd floor is isolated, and brand new, plus the 3rd floor has its' own separate drop from its' own tap on the street, whereas the rest of the house uses another drop from another tap. (There is a coax connection from the lower 2 floors not in use on the 3rd. more on that later..)

Currently with cable, the signal is somewhat weak to the STB's (SA 4250HD's) on the 1st and 2nd floors since the wiring for those floors is "sub"-par and there are some unused splits. (e.g. If I power-cycle the 2nd floor box, it takes 5-7 minutes to come "back on", yet the same HD boxes on the 1st floor, come on in less than 3 minutes. The 2nd fl wiring is really at "the end" of the coax network, and comes after several splits on the 1st fl, some dead now, so it's the weakest.)

The following may not be accurately "answerable", but I'd just like opinions. Are the Verizon STB HD boxes as "sensitive" to a "weak" signal as the cable company boxes are? IOW, if the STBs on the lower floors currently "manage" to function, I assume the "signal power" supplied by the ONT to the same coax wiring (which would be split between the isolated 3rd floor coax, and another connection run to the "in" where the other floors currently get their feed), we have will be "stronger" than the signal I currently get from the cable company drops, and therefore the Verizon STB's should function as well, without re-wiring.

Impressions?

The other option to possibly getting the Video feed to the lower floors is to utilize the "unused" coax connection I refered to earlier, rather than running a new coax out the 3rd, and into the current entry for 1st and 2nd floor. I just don't know if that wiring is up to the task, since it was originally utilized to bring the feed up to the 3rd floor, and there are some splits (now un-necessary-- "dead ends") which would have to be removed.. plus the wiring is older and its' total condition is not fully known.. It was used in the analog cable days.. Some, if not all of it, is RG6 however, but there may be some RG59 in there as well. I need to thoroughly check it out.

Also, were not talking about long runs. 20 feet here, 20 feet there..

3) Data over Ethernet (cat5) and ONT placement.

I just learned (here) that (most) ppl prefer Data over Ethernet (cat5e) rather than coax. Is it simply because of performance issues? And is it recommended in my case as well?

For that reason, I'm considering having the ONT placed inside, on the 3rd floor (right near where the AT will be). Would that facilitate getting the tech to install Data over Ethernet? Should I request this in advance if I go this route? Is it "worth" the hassle to go this route with this config?

What/how would this (Data over cat5) effect the other Verizon services? Video (Multi-room/HMDVR, VOD, guide, etc.)? PSTN?

The PSTN landline is only "live" on the 1st and 2nd floors. The telephony on the 3rd floor is isolated and purely VoIP of which there are several lines. The tech would only have to run an RJ11 line back out the 3rd fl, down the side of the house to the existing NID.

Well, that's all for now. Thanks for reading and Thanks for any suggestions you may have!



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

1) The physical location of the Actiontec really doesn't matter. You can manage it via it's GUI from anywhere on the LAN. With a coax install, the Actiontec can be anywhere on the coax network.

1a) I'm assuming you currently have OOL and are on the East Coast. If so, you will get the Actiontec. Speed wise, the Actiontec is more than adequate for 50/20. The downsides of the Actiontec are small NAT table and poor wireless performance. You can put the Netgear behind the Actiontec as an AP if you wish.

2) The RF signal coming you of the ONT is quite hot and signal level is seldom a problem. Sometimes attenuators are needed to lower the signal level. The install tech with test each connection for proper signal levels.

3) VZ standard install is coax only. If you want your internet over cat5, you should run the cat5 to where the ONT will be in advance. Internet over cat5 is preferred, if you intend to run your own router. Otherwise, there is no difference from a coax install. IMO, it is unlikely that the tech would install the ONT on the third floor. This would require that the fiber pulled to the house be long enough to reach the third floor. The ONT (can be inside or outside) along with the BBU and PS is usually installed near your service entrance where there is power and proper grounding.

3) The install tech will move your VZ POTS lines from the copper NID to the ONT. You're on your own for VOIP.



Jaydee

@optonline.net

said by More Fiber:

1) The physical location of the Actiontec really doesn't matter. You can manage it via it's GUI from anywhere on the LAN. With a coax install, the Actiontec can be anywhere on the coax network.
But in my scenario, the AT needs to be on the 3rd fl because that is where (the *only* place) the LAN is. There is no LAN on the lower floors. All but one of the computers used down there are wireless, and the one that is not wireless has its' own cablemodem, as does the 3rd floor, feeding its' LAN. I cannot simply convert all the machines on the 3rd floor to entirely wireless-- does it not make more sense to convert one machine on the 1st floor to wireless, than to abandon use of the LAN on the 3rd floor and install the AT on the 1st fl? (besides, if there's some problem with the AT, it's more convenient for me to trouobleshoot it up here without disturbing anyone below- plus it's more "secure" up here (i.e. out of the way from young children)

said by More Fiber:

1a) ...you will get the Actiontec. Speed wise, the Actiontec is more than adequate for 50/20. The downsides of the Actiontec are small NAT table and poor wireless performance. You can put the Netgear behind the Actiontec as an AP if you wish.
Im assuming that the AT, as bad as it is with a small NAT table and poor wireless performance, should still be an "improvement" over what I'm currently running for the wireless connections: the old Netgear MR814v2 (802.11 b ONLY).

said by More Fiber:

2) The RF signal coming you of the ONT is quite hot and signal level is seldom a problem. Sometimes attenuators are needed to lower the signal level. The install tech with test each connection for proper signal levels.
That is re-assuring, and what I assumed..

said by More Fiber:

3) VZ standard install is coax only. If you want your internet over cat5, you should run the cat5 to where the ONT will be in advance. Internet over cat5 is preferred, if you intend to run your own router.
I'd like to have that option for the future..
said by More Fiber:

...IMO, it is unlikely that the tech would install the ONT on the third floor. This would require that the fiber pulled to the house be long enough to reach the third floor.
This shouldn't be an issue, since it's an aerial "drop", and therefore, it already originates up at the same level (it would not have to be pulled down to the 1st fl. so it'd actually be shorter this way.) The fiber could enter in the same place it would be on the 1st floor, only up on the 3rd.

Now, if it's "in" the 3rd floor, then it can literally be next to the AT, and I have plenty of cat5 ready to go to the ONT so getting the tech to setup as Data over cat5 shouldn't be any issue at all for the tech, should it?


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

1) I understand your reasons for wanting the Actiontec on the 3rd floor. My point was simply that with a coax install, The Actiontec can go anywhere on the coax, like a cable modem. It is even possible to get an ethernet connection is a room that has only coax:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?

3) Not sure where you're located. In NY, there are very specific grounding requirements for the ONT. If the ONT is outside, it MUST be bonded to the electrical service ground. Not sure what the requirements are for an inside inside install of the ONT. You can probably find them if you search here. Installation practices in other states may vary.

With an inside install be prepared for it to take up a lot of wall space.
»Re: Mounting board for 612 ONT?
That pic does not include the Actiontec router. Some of the newer "just inside" ONTs are a single unit and are somewhat smaller.

3a) I've never heard of a 3rd floor ONT, even with an aerial drop. Not saying you can't get it, but you might want to have VZ do a site survey in advance to see if they will do it.

Some newer techs and/or contract installers will not do a cat5 install period. YMMV.



Jaydee

@optonline.net

said by More Fiber:

1) The Actiontec can go anywhere on the coax, like a cable modem. It is even possible to get an ethernet connection is a room that has only coax:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?
That's awesome info. ++1 for that tip! More for me to think about now....

As far as the 3rd fl ONT install.. I was at a friends 10 minutes away when his install was done. He's on the 3rd floor of a small apartment building.. The fiber was pulled from the pole, more or less straight through his window frame, and the ONT mounted on the wall inside and plugged into a grounded outlet.

Assuming I can get a cat5 install, does that mean I sacrifice the ability to get an ethernet connection elsewhere in a room that only has coax? as you pointed out above?

You've been a wealth of info so far. Thanks a mill.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

said by Jaydee :

Assuming I can get a cat5 install, does that mean I sacrifice the ability to get an ethernet connection elsewhere in a room that only has coax? as you pointed out above?
No. Cat5 or coax WAN connection makes no difference with respect to the MOCA (coax) LAN.

The STBs are using the coax for their LAN connection. A MOCA bridge (NIM-100 or 2nd Actiontec) is just another device on the coax LAN. There is currently a limit of 8 devices on the MOCA LAN. That includes the primary Actiontec, any STBS (except DCT-700s) and any MOCA bridges.


Jaydee

@optonline.net

said by More Fiber:

...There is currently a limit of 8 devices on the MOCA LAN. That includes the primary Actiontec, any STBS (except DCT-700s) and any MOCA bridges.
So we'll have 6 STBs, and the Actiontec already, == 7. So we only have "space" for one NIM-100?

What would happen if we need more? Is it possible to add another Actiontec instead of a NIM to get additional 8 device's?


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

Yes, but you would have to add a pair.

The MOCA device limit is on a per channel basis. You could add a pair of MOCA bridges (NIM-100 or Actionec) operating on a different MOCA channel from the primary Actiontec and STBs.



Jaydee

@verizon.net

So the bottom line is, for my setup, with 6 STBs, and the Actiontec, I can add one NIM100, and be able to get an ethernet connection on another floor of the house, to which I can plug in a switch, and connect several more PC's to the LAN.

Have I got it?

Thanks again for all your advice.



mystryfiostk

join:2008-07-17
00000
reply to More Fiber

said by More Fiber:

3) Not sure where you're located. In NY, there are very specific grounding requirements for the ONT. If the ONT is outside, it MUST be bonded to the electrical service ground. Not sure what the requirements are for an inside inside install of the ONT. You can probably find them if you search here. Installation practices in other states may vary.

The NY grounding crack down has made it's way across the country.

If there is ANY external wiring (pots, or coax), then even in an internal installation - a ground wire needs to be run from the internal ont to a power service ground AND be within 20 wire feet. If this cannot be accomplished, then an inside ONT cannot be used.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to Jaydee

said by Jaydee :

with 6 STBs, and the Actiontec, I can add one NIM100, and be able to get an ethernet connection on another floor of the house, to which I can plug in a switch, and connect several more PC's to the LAN.
Correct.


Jaydee

@verizon.net

Continuing question:

The NIMs are hard to find at reasonable prices.

Is it possible to use another Actiontec MI424-WR instead of a NIM-100?



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

said by Jaydee :

Is it possible to use another Actiontec MI424-WR instead of a NIM-100?
Absolutely. See the following FAQ:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?


kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Jaydee

Does anyone know a deployment map I could check when are they going to reach my area (Slope) in Brooklyn?

TIA



fatal

join:2000-12-29
Brooklyn, NY

said by kamm:

Does anyone know a deployment map I could check when are they going to reach my area (Slope) in Brooklyn?

TIA
parkslope is being wired now i see some permits on the db


kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

said by fatal:

said by kamm:

Does anyone know a deployment map I could check when are they going to reach my area (Slope) in Brooklyn?

TIA
parkslope is being wired now i see some permits on the db
*REALLY???* Where do you see it?=
More importantly what does it mean in terms of live service (or at least taking orders)?

TIA
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]


Jaydee

@verizon.net

said by kamm:

REALLY???* Where do you see it?=
More importantly what does it mean in terms of live service (or at least taking orders)?

TIA
It took almost 3 months from the time they first strung the guider cable, to actual live.

That also jives with what others here have said in the past.


Jaydee

@verizon.net
reply to Jaydee

ONT Question.

Now that my install is all overwith, I was just curious about something.

In the ONT, I notice that the Video, MoCA, and POTS LED's are NOT lit, and the Link light is orange.

Inititally I was curious as to why the MoCA light was not lit, since MoCA obviously works (widgets, VoD, guide work), but I presume it's not lit because I did a cat5e Data over Ethernet install.

Now however, I'm just curious as to why all those aren't lit, and Link is orange (100bt vs 1000bt?)-- if all that is normal.

Thanks guys



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

As for you MOCA question, yes, it is because your WAN is over cat5, not coax. The ONT does not "see" the MOCA LAN. MOCA WAN and MOCA LAN are on different frequencies.



Jaydee

@verizon.net
reply to Jaydee

Re: New FiOS install, Brooklyn NY, 50/20, TV, PSTN need advice

...and I realized today that the POTS line is on/flashing (orange) only when the POTS line is in use. That makes sense I suppose.

The un-lit Video light is still a mystery.



kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Jaydee

said by Jaydee50:

said by kamm:

REALLY???* Where do you see it?=
More importantly what does it mean in terms of live service (or at least taking orders)?

TIA
It took almost 3 months from the time they first strung the guider cable, to actual live.

That also jives with what others here have said in the past.
Hmm, it's mid-April, I wonder if I can order it a month from now...
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]


kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Well, it seems unlikely as it is today.