how-to block ads
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread Alright,
I've been reading up on the various new specs/glyphs/spell changes/etc for DK's and I've been mulling over some new ideas.
My first impression, based upon the new trees is that Unholy is insane. The bonus damage this spec affords as well as other goodies is going to put Unholy over the top.
First off... dualwield is dead. They killed dualwield. Anything you'd accomplish with DW, you can do with a 2H.
Second, keep an eye on Death Strike. It's possible that Death Strike could be extremely lethal with the bonus in first-tier Unholy and later-tier Blood. This could serve to be deadly in PVP. With Sigils and set bonuses not having an effect on Death Strike, I sincerely doubt it'll be a good PVE ability (aside from healing on bad fights). Glyph of Death Strike would be pretty interesting though. It could be a primary strike in PVP.
Here's what I suggest:
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614
14/2/55 (Old Version, 17/0/54)
You're giving up 1% crit and some minor AP (3/5 Bladed Armor) and instead, going to pick up 30 additional RP cap, and all the goodies in Unholy. Some of that shit looks insane. This scales with gear and will perform better with 4pcT7 and once again, Sigil of Awareness (Sigil applies to base damage, and now there's more multipliers). Additional disease damage length means that with the Glyph of SS, you may only ever need to apply diseases once.
Rotation remains the same.
IT, PS, BS, BS, SS - RP Dump
SSx3 - RP Dump
--------------------
51/13/7
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614
Important Glyphs: Pestilence, Blood Strike, Obliterate
(Pestilence will refresh diseases on your primary target)
Rotation:
Line1:IT, PS, OB, HS, HS - RP Dump
Line2:OBx2, HS, Pest - RP Dump
Line3:OBx2, HSx2 - RP Dump
Lead in on line 1. Move onto Line 2. Then Line 3. From there it's 2-3-2-3-etc.
1-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-boss dead
On AoE packs, you'll still do the same rotation. I fear that diseaseless blood is most likely dead at this point. Fortunately, you can apply diseases on a boss and as long as you pop pestilence before they fall off, you could do nearly the same "no disease" rotation for the entire boss fight at the cost of 1 Heart Strike every other rotation.
-----
51/2/18 (Some flexibility)
No disease Heart Strike Spammer
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614
This is a good mention for those who may lack the 4pct7 bonus or the Sigil of Awareness. Hell, maybe it might allow for other gear options if this becomes superior. There are a lot of flex points in this build that were placed as filler points. Personal preference can be used where you see fit (non-DPS talents).
Rotation:
OBx2, HSx2 - RP Dump
HSx6 - RP Dump
(Blood Presence)
With Sudden Doom no longer causing screwups on rotations, you're free to do your rotation without weaving in procs. Heart Strike got a buff on non-crit damage and a slight buff on crit damage. All of this bonus damage is non-reliant on diseases (even though they help). This build is worth testing, but I can't see it taking off. Perma Ghoul is nice, even if it has less survivability.
-----------
Frost 17/51/3
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614
Fluffer points in frost has been reduced, so you can accumulate all of your points for about the same price. You can choose Deathchill over Hungering Cold for personal preference (but minimal DPS increase)
Rotation:
Line 1:Blood Tap ITx2, PS, BS, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Line 2:IT, Pest, OB, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Repeat Line 2
Rime procs, you pop Howling Blast and continue Frost Striking. You trade heart strike damage for the ability to constantly have disesaes on every target and to keep plague strike damage on your target at all times, which should boost Obliterate Damage.
What's your thoughts? Also, feel free to correct me on anything I might have mixed up (or need to clarify). I'll edit as need be.
--
I melt faces. | |
|  | 
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| And what's a good leveling build? I.E. for the DKs starting at lvl 58 and under-geared until they get to 80? Is it still balanced enough to be up to their playing pref?
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
| |
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread Doesn't matter dude. Leveling is such a joke. I'd just go Unholy. | |
| 
AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com | With the changes to the Death Strike rune + talents, do you think DS will replace Obliterate for heavy-blood invested DKs? | |
| |
AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread Er...by rune, I mean glyph. The changes to Death Strike Glyph does increase the DPS of the strike even further...but not sure if it'll ever overtake an Obliterate.
...plus it really makes me wonder why they'd insert that new +30% DS talent so heavy into Blood if you weren't supposed to use it. | |
| | |
AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread Plus, with the changes to Blood, you have about 4 talent points that aren't going to the staple DPS talents. Would you think 3/3 Bloodworms would be a better replacement for Rune Tap?
I know Bloodworms is weaksauce compared to most of the tree, but it is additional DPS. I don't know exactly how Rune Tap helps you deal more DPS, other than bailing your butt out when you're standing in the fire you shouldn't be standing in. | |
| | | | Ipone
join:2008-11-25 | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread I enjoy having runetap and would take it over bloodworms. Its great for fights like saph where your taking constant 900+'s and it gives a little more survivability if i want to do a bit of pvp on the side | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal. | |
| |
AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread said by Krisnatharok  :Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal. True, but going so deep into Blood for DPS, wouldn't you want to glpyh for something else than rune tap?
Glyph of Death Strike / Glyph of Obliterate
Glyph of Blood/Heart Strike
Glyph of ...eh, ghoul? (seeing as how deep blood now gets perma-pet as well) | |
| | |
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread said by AB_Lazy :said by Krisnatharok :Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal. True, but going so deep into Blood for DPS, wouldn't you want to glpyh for something else than rune tap? Glyph of Death Strike / Glyph of Obliterate Glyph of Blood/Heart Strike Glyph of ...eh, ghoul? (seeing as how deep blood now gets perma-pet as well) Deep blood gets a perma-pet? I missed something here.... | |
| | | | 
Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread what are you doing as a rune dump. i keep seeing this. and i keep my rune tank full so to speak. and i think it locks outt abilities because of that. how do i rune dump please. | |
| 
Dandy
join:2001-12-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs: | soo.. what is the best PVE dps spec then? | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | Locks out abilities? Lol.
Rune dumps are death coil, rune strike, frost strike, heart strike, scourge strike, etc. | |
| |
Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread ok. i am doing all those. if it is off cooldown i spam it. but every so often. esp if i am full on rune power. the abilities are grey in color and i cannot use them. | |
| | |
Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread also i know what some are bothers i am a little confused...
IT, icy touch
PS,plague strike
BS,
BS,
SS, scourge strike
RP Dump
SSx3 - scourge strike
RP Dump | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| There's a difference between an ability CD and a rune CD.
You have six ruins total, two of each blood, frost, and unholy (not counting talents that convert a certain kind to a death ruin, which is a wildcard ruin).
Once you use any ruin, it takes 12 seconds to refresh. So you can do two blood strikes as fast as your GCD, but then you can't do another attack that requires a blood ruin until your two blood ruins refresh.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
| |
Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread said by Krisnatharok :There's a difference between an ability CD and a rune CD. You have six ruins total, two of each blood, frost, and unholy (not counting talents that convert a certain kind to a death ruin, which is a wildcard ruin). Once you use any ruin, it takes 12 seconds to refresh. So you can do two blood strikes as fast as your GCD, but then you can't do another attack that requires a blood ruin until your two blood ruins refresh. ok that makes sense. i have gotten to lvl 70 in about 2 days of play i think now. it is so easy. i just spam any button that isn't on cooldown and go from there.
well now i know... thanks... | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | BS = Blood Strike.
What was your question? | |
| |
Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread said by Krisnatharok :BS = Blood Strike. What was your question? ty, that answered it.
where does OB ang DS come in to play with unholy. i uauslly spamthem too when they are up as well. | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
1 edit | There's some better strategies out there than just spamming whatever is not on cooldown:
I use the following:
Single Target
1. Icy Touch,
2. Plague Strike (these two put DoT diseases on the target, so start out with these to get max dps),
3. Blood Strike (does more dmg based on diseases),
4. Blood Strike,
5. Death Strike (to heal you), or Obliterate (if target is near death--consumes diseases but does more damage.
6. Rune Strike as proc
7. RP dump
So that would be: IT, PS, BSx2, DS or Obl, RP dump, rune strike when it procs
Multiple Targets
1. Icy Touch
2. Plague Strike
3. Pestilence (this spreads both diseases to all nearby targets)
4. Blood Boil (AoE)
5. Blood Tap (refreshes a blood ruin instantly)
6. Blood Boil
7. Death Strike or Obl on your first target
8. RP dump on remaining targets
Alternatively, you could do this:
1. Death and Destruction (AoE)
2. Icy Touch
3. Plague Strike
4. Pestilence
5. Blood Tap
6. Blood Boil
7. RP dump on remaining targets
I'm not the greatest on maxing dps on multiple targets... I always feel like I'm missing something. 7 GCD's plus one or two death coils gives me several seconds of dead time. anyone have any thoughts on a better multiple targets cycle?
But anyways, there's a starter.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| I went to bed after I posted this, so I'll try and respond to all of the posts.
Death Strike will always be used for healing. I still cannot see it overtaking Obliterate or Scourge Strike, even with its damage bonuses increased. It could replace Obliterate in PVP however.
Bloodworms is like 50DPS if the worms stay alive. They provide extra healing in a stream, but for that "oh god i need heals now" kind of thing, blood worms usually don't help and that's where Rune Tap comes in (like when i accidentally eat a tail swipe on Sapphiron and get punted across the room).
Dandy: There is no best yet.
RP Dumps for Blood are going to be Death Coil unless saving up for DRW. Unholy RP Dumps will be Death Coil, Unholy Blight or possibly Corpse Explosion. Frost RP Dumps are always Frost Strike.
As Unholy, Obliterate should never be on your bars. Take it off or I will bitchslap you. Deathstrike should be used ONLY to heal and that's if you don't trust your healers or know your healers won't get to you.
--
I melt faces. | |
| 
pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | after reading all the changes, plus your theorycraft, and glyph changes, i think unholy will take the cake with a decent set of gear and a good weapon
arch, im going to throw down on your unholy build on ptr and let you know what i think | |
| |
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread But you suck at this game :P | |
| |
AKDK
@wcmc.com
| after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz, as to arch...i love you, i think im gonna stay blood, i do 1- 1.5kdps more on bosses then i did with unholy, plus theres just so many classes with aoe whats 1 less on trash 8P | |
| |
pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread said by AKDK :
after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz
uh, i didnt get...did you mean that as an insult? cause i got lost somewhere when you said dks are doin less then 2k on raids...
anyway, i do agree that dks should stay outta the aoe stuff when trash is pulled, unless a spriest uses devouring plague and a dk spreads it...im not sayin dks are bad at aoe, but the current blood build means i just need to spend more time bull$hittin on vent while trash is downed | |
|
riyo
@wcmc.com
| Kris i seem to have 1 or 2 seconds of downtime sometimes to usually because i screwed my rotation and to fill the gaps i either blow a blood tap or summon my goul lol, usuallly if theres nothing i can do ill eat an auto attack and hope for a crit. btw i went 52/19/0 for my blood spec, we have 3 shamys and only 1 seems to be on when we raid, i didnt think my numbers were as good when i dropped 19 in unholy, annihaltion is just broken op. just grabed almost full 25 off tier on tuesday so thursdays raid i was hitting from 3-5k which was damn sweet since im still using titansteel destroyer (lol) i spiked to 6k on the aoe drake but hyst/drw was up mirror grim toll and crusader runeweapon procd at once so that was interesting. i didnt really aoe at all stayed on boss the whole way. was curious arch if you tried 52/19/0 against 51/13/7. was gonna do 51/13/7 but the lack of imp IT or WT chances were to great
one other thing i procd more sudden dooms with 2/5 then my buddy with 5/5 against saph and kt combined, dunno how many you use but i dont feel 5/5 is worth it.
im about to start surgery in a min so i was rushing this post i know im rambling 8D | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| FIll your downtime with death coils or do this so you don't consume your diseases:
IT > PS > HS > HS > DS > DC > DC > HS > HS > OB
I don't like using obliterate until the diseases are almost gone. If you build a macro and mash it fast you can get the obliterate in right before the diseases go off. Or you can use blood tap to spread to another and spread back at the cost of a HS.
Or maybe it's late and this makes no sense. You've been warned.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
|
pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| nah man, i see what you mean, but im not that "disease" friendly, and im makin all the other dks in my guild feel bad for tryin to dps...when it comes to aoes, i just do the normal obx2 hsx2 dcx2 and let the others take down the spider trash in naxx...ive been using army of the dead more often recently and its a nice tool to use to bump up the dps charts...but it actually has to be channeled, and that imo cuts on your total dps, so hit raise dead, army of the dead, let someone bloodlust, tap rune blade and hystaria and proceed to the top of the charts
and for some reason, the laziest rotation in the world seems to be getting the most love (until 3.1 in the next months) i actually could make a macro and spam the $hit outta the rotation...but i need to remind myself im still human and need something to preoccupy my shortened mind spam | |
|
Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| I guess the utility of dropping IT and PS will be seen in how much they boost the dmg of diseases, and especially blood boil...
lol.... "Your crit bonus damage goes up 50% for every disease on a target." I can wish...
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Actually, now that I think about it Arch, I do believe Blizz is trying to move heavy Blood DPS DKs into using Death Strike over Obliterate. With the changes being made, I could easily see DS catching up, or outperforming OB.
OB is 120% melee strike, whereas DS is 60%. However, with the talent changes, Blood DPS DKs (should be) sporting an extra +30% damage on Death Strike and +30 max runic energy (2 point tier 1 frost talent). Now, Obliterate's Glyph adds +20% damage to OB, but Death Strike's glyph adds a maximum of +52% damage to DS (+2% per 5 runic energy w/ max 130 runic energy).
I dunno though. Don't have any gear to test it out, but in the math sense, they do seem about equal:
Obliterate: +120% base +20% glyph = +140%
Death Strike: +60% base +30% talents +52% glyph = +142% | |
| |
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread Yeah but then you sit at RP cap and can't dump, so now what? | |
| | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread True enough, especially since they're changing Sudden Doom to be an insta-proc rather than a buff that makes your next DC a freebie. | |
| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
2 edits | Actually, if your rotation is extended out w/ single-strike abilities (which Blizz is attempting to do by increasing +%-weapon-DPS based disease bonuses), the time you get to perform runic power dumps decreases. I mean, with a rotation of:
IT->PS->HS->HS->DS
You have enough time to peform approximately 1 DC before your runes start activating again, especially after your second rotation of:
IT->PS->HS->HS->HS->HS
Of course, this is if Blizzard makes the extra HS +weapon DPS bonuses outweigh the loss of DPS made on the initial disease setup strokes. However, if Blizz does manage to do this, and you're casting a slew of single-strike moves (rather than the 2xOB->2xHS rotation of today), you'd likely be sitting on capped runic power a good deal of the time. | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Actually, looking over the numerical math numbers, the difference between heavy HS & DS vs. heavy Obliterate should be small. So far with the changes to 3.1, Blizzard has made the two methods numerically similar, with just small edges towards the HS/DS method (ie. diseases to full duration, heavy self-heals guaranteeing Blood Gorged to always be up, etc.). Unless Blizzard gives additional +damage tweaks to HS/DS, or nerfs Obliterate (which I hope not - screws up other specs), the difference might be only noticed by the most min/maxing raiders out there.
Blizz certainly is adopting a change to HS/DS though, as Abomination's Might has also been changed to be applied by Death Strike as well.
Don't know what's going on with Bloodworms though. I'd love to see it as a better DPS talent, but not sure if Blizz's latest change just upped the healing done by bloodworms, or increased their damage as well. | |
| |
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread It just upped the healing.
I'm more interested in the other trees at this point. Blood's appeal to me was the simplicity. Now that it has the same 5+ button presses as the other trees, I may look elsewhere. Frost, even though folks are crying nerf, is apparently putting out some sick numbers on the PTR from what I've seen.
Either way, I look forward to trying all the variouos specs/rotations. | |
| | | |
|
