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Forums » Tech and Talk » Computer Games and Clans » World of Warcraft » Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread
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« [ PVP] Fresh Level 80 Hunter PVP Advice?  
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA


1 edit
reply to JohnnyBoy
Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread

I'd actually argue that frost is better on extremely short fights versus trash. Why? For Unholy you have to go through a complete rotation to get enough RP for your Unholy Blight, and it may not be up enough to add significant damage to the trash (I'm thinking in a raid environment where mob groups die in less than 5 seconds).

Whereas with frost all you have to do is:

Crit button + HB + DND + BB and your job is done.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. - RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975

JohnnyBoy

join:2009-03-04

reply to NYlock78
said by NYlock78 See Profile :

So all I see is people saying Blood or Unholy but whats wrong with Frost. I am using this build right now »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;58677;
Any suggestions?
Basically, the lack of controllable burst is the major drawback of Frost. On shorter fights you'll notice your DPS lags a bit behind the other two specs but anywhere there's AoE damage to be done Frost does extremely well. I personally prefer Frost for the flexible rotation and strong 1v1 and AoE DPS potential. Single target DPS is still top-end raid potential.


NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ

reply to Archivis
So all I see is people saying Blood or Unholy but whats wrong with Frost. I am using this build right now »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;58677;
Any suggestions?


VinceAtLSU

join:2008-09-22
Slidell, LA

reply to Archivis
said by Archivis See Profile :

30k unique views.

What now bitches.
You are amazing!


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
reply to Krisnatharok
Really only because of my participation :P I could just tack those hits onto my thread.


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
reply to Archivis
You're just a title whore.

Bob the Bobster still owns you tho: »[ Classes] DK best DPS spec


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
reply to Archivis
30k unique views.

What now bitches.


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA

reply to NICK79
said by NICK79 See Profile :

best idea in this post has got to be macro !Rune Strike to everything u do!!
If you are in raids/heroics, you'll never need it as dps. If you're a tank, I found it helpful to only bind to my RP dump macro:

/cast Frost Strike (or DC)
/cast !Rune Strike

Sometimes I don't want to rune strike. Not often, but rarely I need the RP for something else, and I don't ever want to force myself to use it.

NICK79

join:2008-11-08
Cincinnati, OH

reply to Archivis
I made mine with extra Dark commands

/castsequance reset = 25 Death Grip, Dark Command, Dark Command, Dark Command

Dark Command only has cooldown of 8 sec so i threw some extra on the end there just in case

im at work u may not want to do the whole copy/paste for that macro - i love spelling errors it seems lol

best idea in this post has got to be macro !Rune Strike to everything u do!!


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA

reply to kAk_a_LaK
Just create a taunt macro and bind it someplace easy to get to:

#showtooltip
/cast Dark Command
/cast !Death Grip

or

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=[insert CD of your DG here] Death Grip, Dark Command
--
If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. - RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS

reply to kAk_a_LaK
Dark Command does not generate threat. Dark Command will force a target to attack you if it is not attacking you. It will also bring your threat level up to the threat level of the person you taunted it off of.

You should NOT be using it as a part of your regular rotation. You should be using Dark Command to peel an add off someone else.

Also, Runeforge > Enchants.


kAk_a_LaK

@pacbell.net

reply to Archivis
He guys, long time reader, first time posting... I'm also a nub DK looking for some tank/PVP tips. Anywhoo, reading some of the above DK Tank rotations, I notice nobody includes Dark Command (think thats what its called).. Is it just assumed to be used whenever its up? Or is it generally not used in leiu of an attack that will generate more threat? Just curious..

Also, had a nub question about runeforging... Are there any high level enchants that are better than the runeforge alternatives or will a runeforged weapon always outweigh any "similar" enchant? (similar meaning: +AP Enchant is "similar" to increased damage rune etc... if that makes sense)


warrok

@dnd.ca
reply to morbideath
Def cap for boss mobs(lvl 83)hes 545 if im correct and 540 for heroics


Warrok

@dnd.ca

reply to Morbideath
Im not going to say your wrong but i have a different style of tanking then you+ ive been in this guild from the start to be the OT to have the job of getting adds and switch gear and stances when needed.And really if your raid dps does the job you shouldnt be affraid of failing any dps race.Just that i saw that being OT is much better and if it ever happens EX:the concil in ulduar where at start you neeed 2 tanks then on last mob only 1 ,while once 2 first are down i switch stance to actully help out the dps.

If your to be MT of your guild then do not concentrate for AoE dps but if you have the option go for OT since it makes better use of our class


Quickdamage

@tjxcos.com
reply to Archivis
Just to let you guys know, Army of The Dead doesn't taunt raid bosses, so you can pop them whenever you want to on raid dragon bosses.


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA

reply to NICK79
only thing I can say is that if you want to use Death Strike you should be going blood. You're gimping yourself if you don't. And the end-game builds are just fine for heroics--start getting used to one now, or switch to a leveling/tanking build that takes improved rune tap for a huge DIY heal twice a minute.

NICK79

join:2008-11-08
Cincinnati, OH

reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok See Profile :

Can't see it at work... but wandering plague is an important part of AoE aggro in an Unholy build. You don't need to turn F/U runs to Death as Unholy revolves around Scourge Strike. You don't want to scatter all your aggro around minimally--you'll nearly always have a core group of targets closer to death that you will always have diseases on. Spread your diseases to the new adds, death coil the new ones once or twice, and Wandering Plague/Unholy Blight will do the rest. Gargoyle is still good for helping you finish off the mobs fast enough that you don't lose control of the adds.

Use of Army of the Dead varies on bosses. I hate using it at all on dragon bosses. In OS I usually only use it if on add control--they typically never get to the raid boss as I force them onto the enraged adds and usually get killed off by the waves. I typically keep it as a card up my sleeve in case things get too hectic. Its utility is more limited to 5-man heroics than raids.

If you want single target tanking AND AoE tanking, then dual spec frost or blood and then unholy. You cannot be a master of both--you'll fail at everything then.

My only concern about tanking adds as Frost is how long your aggro will last. Sure, you can d&d, HB, BB, but if you're talking heroic raid adds, and each one has a considerable healthpool, how long will you hold aggro versus pure dps AoE nuking the adds? I'd rather stick with Unholy for permanent, continuous AoE threat.

But as far as single target threat goes, I think you're going to have a hard time matching the threat of a Blood tank's own heals (they generate threat just like a healer does) + Dancing Rune Weapon buffed by Hysteria. Put the Greatness Card on him and you're talking about an incredible threat generator.
sorry i should have use a work friend calculator - I've given this build some thought

I understand the importance of Scourge Strike and did grab it in the talent tree to use for single target when needed but heres my thinking and why i would be willing to lose wandering plauge - healers ( in general )are having an issue IMO healing DK's - Im getting alot of avoidance going on and it "tricks" them because when i get hit a few times they r throwing these big heals on me thinking i need it and thinking they have time to give it when whats happening is while i wait on the cast time for the big heal i'll hit a string of no dodge/parry's and die - and if they get it off i have to deal with the fact that my healer just crit healed me for 14k+ and now some of my adds im tanking want to go say hi, the Death Strike helps me with that in more ways than one health/threat and will than give me 4 Death ruins

with this build shortly after the fight starts about the time your knee deep in adds/mobs/and damage you have aoe options - if im losing threat i can pop 7 BB if needed and there instant cast/ u dont need to take time to target anyone/ they do damage now if u have a disease on them or not and mine are criting for around 1400 ( w/ 3 diseases ) - and with 7 of them @ instant cast u could sustain alot of dps/threat over a long peroid of time, if new adds show up popping pestalince takes a blood rune so u got plenty of them and BB will hit them anyway ( just not for as much )

what i want out of my build is to beable to spreed diseases when ever needed ( not something i want to have to wait on a cooldown ) and pop aoe dmg/threat whenever needed - and the runic power from all those BB insure UB stays up and IF and runic strike stays striking ( which i have macro to every other button i touch ) but thats about all im using my RP for - anything extra is nice but UB/IF/RS are the bread and butter

ive found that with a regular unholy rotation u have periods of down time where theres nothing u can do, so no matter what ur rotation is if something unexpected happens ( and all tanks know that feeling ) u have many instant options

its just an idea for a build and im going to try it for a min to see if there are any cons i havnt forseen or any pros i didnt expect but with the use of ruins over mana/rage i feel the this build will give more options to DK's for those "what now" situations, I am worred about losing wandering plauge but well see the impact after more test runs

think of the boss fight in UK where those adds keep coming - if they spawn during a bad spot in ur rotation it could be a few ticks before u have a ruin avalible to spread a disease or something and ur wandering plague/ UB may not beable to keep them from going to the healer when there throwing those big heals on us

this may not be endgame but im not ready for endgame yet - in my mind im useing this in 5 man content to gear for endgame - when i get there i may need to rethink things well see


morbideath

@af.mil
reply to Warrok
note, def cap is 540


Morbideath

@af.mil

reply to Warrok
Are you high? seriously, Majority of all the end game raids are dps races, more often then not they opt the warrior, bear or pally to tank the adds and put the dk on the main boss Because a dk can put out more dps which makes you more efficient to main tank because you generate more dps.Also Hysteria and dancing rune weapon are a waste of talent points because they are not needed to hold threat if you are spamming rune strike and have it glyphed, i have tanked 10/25man OS, 10/25 Vault(New), 10/25 Mally, 10/25 naxx, and also downed the first quarter of 10/25 ulduar. In situations that require 2 tanks i generally MT cause i do more boss dps, situations that require 1 tank i switch to my dps gear and spec and have at it while the warrior tanks. dancing rune weapon is just a straight waste IMO and hysteria is more efficient to use on your best dps if you do have them. Blood MT is by far most efficient for single target bosses. i will not argure add control falls to unholy


Warrok

@dnd.ca
reply to Archivis
One more thing its a waste of a dk going for single target threat!!!!!!!We are built to be the one getting all the adds and crap...let the Bear or the warrior be MT and leave the add job the pallies and DKs
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