Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread in World of Warcraft

Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21971325 en Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:26:38 EDT Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:26:38 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22420380 Krisnatharok : I'd actually argue that frost is better on extremely short fights versus trash. Why? For Unholy you have to go through a complete rotation to get enough RP for your Unholy Blight, and it may not be up enough to add significant damage to the trash (I'm thinking in a raid environment where mob groups die in less than 5 seconds).

Whereas with frost all you have to do is:

Crit button + HB + DND + BB and your job is done.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. - RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22420380 Wed, 20 May 2009 23:33:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22417998 JohnnyBoy :

said by NYlock78

:

So all I see is people saying Blood or Unholy but whats wrong with Frost. I am using this build right now »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;58677;
Any suggestions?

Basically, the lack of controllable burst is the major drawback of Frost. On shorter fights you'll notice your DPS lags a bit behind the other two specs but anywhere there's AoE damage to be done Frost does extremely well. I personally prefer Frost for the flexible rotation and strong 1v1 and AoE DPS potential. Single target DPS is still top-end raid potential.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22417998 Wed, 20 May 2009 15:40:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22415999 NYlock78 : So all I see is people saying Blood or Unholy but whats wrong with Frost. I am using this build right now »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;58677;
Any suggestions?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22415999 Wed, 20 May 2009 09:49:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22415918 VinceAtLSU :

said by Archivis

:

30k unique views.

What now bitches.

You are amazing!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22415918 Wed, 20 May 2009 09:27:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414165 Archivis : Really only because of my participation :P I could just tack those hits onto my thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414165 Tue, 19 May 2009 21:32:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414162 Krisnatharok : You're just a title whore. ;-)

Bob the Bobster still owns you tho: »[ Classes] DK best DPS spec]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414162 Tue, 19 May 2009 21:31:45 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414110 Archivis : 30k unique views.

What now bitches.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22414110 Tue, 19 May 2009 21:22:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22413919 Krisnatharok :

said by NICK79

:

best idea in this post has got to be macro !Rune Strike to everything u do!!

If you are in raids/heroics, you'll never need it as dps. If you're a tank, I found it helpful to only bind to my RP dump macro:

/cast Frost Strike (or DC)
/cast !Rune Strike

Sometimes I don't want to rune strike. Not often, but rarely I need the RP for something else, and I don't ever want to force myself to use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22413919 Tue, 19 May 2009 20:46:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22413385 NICK79 : I made mine with extra Dark commands

/castsequance reset = 25 Death Grip, Dark Command, Dark Command, Dark Command

Dark Command only has cooldown of 8 sec so i threw some extra on the end there just in case

im at work u may not want to do the whole copy/paste for that macro - i love spelling errors it seems lol

best idea in this post has got to be macro !Rune Strike to everything u do!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22413385 Tue, 19 May 2009 18:59:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22409497 Krisnatharok : Just create a taunt macro and bind it someplace easy to get to:

#showtooltip
/cast Dark Command
/cast !Death Grip

or

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=[insert CD of your DG here] Death Grip, Dark Command
--
If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. - RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22409497 Tue, 19 May 2009 01:38:44 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22396012 Archivis : Dark Command does not generate threat. Dark Command will force a target to attack you if it is not attacking you. It will also bring your threat level up to the threat level of the person you taunted it off of.

You should NOT be using it as a part of your regular rotation. You should be using Dark Command to peel an add off someone else.

Also, Runeforge > Enchants.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22396012 Fri, 15 May 2009 20:06:48 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395708 anon : He guys, long time reader, first time posting... I'm also a nub DK looking for some tank/PVP tips. Anywhoo, reading some of the above DK Tank rotations, I notice nobody includes Dark Command (think thats what its called).. Is it just assumed to be used whenever its up? Or is it generally not used in leiu of an attack that will generate more threat? Just curious..

Also, had a nub question about runeforging... Are there any high level enchants that are better than the runeforge alternatives or will a runeforged weapon always outweigh any "similar" enchant? (similar meaning: +AP Enchant is "similar" to increased damage rune etc... if that makes sense)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395708 Fri, 15 May 2009 18:49:59 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22387326 anon : Def cap for boss mobs(lvl 83)hes 545 if im correct and 540 for heroics]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22387326 Thu, 14 May 2009 08:31:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22387320 anon : Im not going to say your wrong but i have a different style of tanking then you+ ive been in this guild from the start to be the OT to have the job of getting adds and switch gear and stances when needed.And really if your raid dps does the job you shouldnt be affraid of failing any dps race.Just that i saw that being OT is much better and if it ever happens EX:the concil in ulduar where at start you neeed 2 tanks then on last mob only 1 ,while once 2 first are down i switch stance to actully help out the dps.

If your to be MT of your guild then do not concentrate for AoE dps but if you have the option go for OT since it makes better use of our class]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22387320 Thu, 14 May 2009 08:29:18 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22384151 anon : Just to let you guys know, Army of The Dead doesn't taunt raid bosses, so you can pop them whenever you want to on raid dragon bosses. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22384151 Wed, 13 May 2009 16:35:01 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22383458 Krisnatharok : only thing I can say is that if you want to use Death Strike you should be going blood. You're gimping yourself if you don't. And the end-game builds are just fine for heroics--start getting used to one now, or switch to a leveling/tanking build that takes improved rune tap for a huge DIY heal twice a minute. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22383458 Wed, 13 May 2009 14:48:12 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22383047 NICK79 :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Can't see it at work... but wandering plague is an important part of AoE aggro in an Unholy build. You don't need to turn F/U runs to Death as Unholy revolves around Scourge Strike. You don't want to scatter all your aggro around minimally--you'll nearly always have a core group of targets closer to death that you will always have diseases on. Spread your diseases to the new adds, death coil the new ones once or twice, and Wandering Plague/Unholy Blight will do the rest. Gargoyle is still good for helping you finish off the mobs fast enough that you don't lose control of the adds.

Use of Army of the Dead varies on bosses. I hate using it at all on dragon bosses. In OS I usually only use it if on add control--they typically never get to the raid boss as I force them onto the enraged adds and usually get killed off by the waves. I typically keep it as a card up my sleeve in case things get too hectic. Its utility is more limited to 5-man heroics than raids.

If you want single target tanking AND AoE tanking, then dual spec frost or blood and then unholy. You cannot be a master of both--you'll fail at everything then.

My only concern about tanking adds as Frost is how long your aggro will last. Sure, you can d&d, HB, BB, but if you're talking heroic raid adds, and each one has a considerable healthpool, how long will you hold aggro versus pure dps AoE nuking the adds? I'd rather stick with Unholy for permanent, continuous AoE threat.

But as far as single target threat goes, I think you're going to have a hard time matching the threat of a Blood tank's own heals (they generate threat just like a healer does) + Dancing Rune Weapon buffed by Hysteria. Put the Greatness Card on him and you're talking about an incredible threat generator.

sorry i should have use a work friend calculator - I've given this build some thought

I understand the importance of Scourge Strike and did grab it in the talent tree to use for single target when needed but heres my thinking and why i would be willing to lose wandering plauge - healers ( in general )are having an issue IMO healing DK's - Im getting alot of avoidance going on and it "tricks" them because when i get hit a few times they r throwing these big heals on me thinking i need it and thinking they have time to give it when whats happening is while i wait on the cast time for the big heal i'll hit a string of no dodge/parry's and die - and if they get it off i have to deal with the fact that my healer just crit healed me for 14k+ and now some of my adds im tanking want to go say hi, the Death Strike helps me with that in more ways than one health/threat and will than give me 4 Death ruins

with this build shortly after the fight starts about the time your knee deep in adds/mobs/and damage you have aoe options - if im losing threat i can pop 7 BB if needed and there instant cast/ u dont need to take time to target anyone/ they do damage now if u have a disease on them or not and mine are criting for around 1400 ( w/ 3 diseases ) - and with 7 of them @ instant cast u could sustain alot of dps/threat over a long peroid of time, if new adds show up popping pestalince takes a blood rune so u got plenty of them and BB will hit them anyway ( just not for as much )

what i want out of my build is to beable to spreed diseases when ever needed ( not something i want to have to wait on a cooldown ) and pop aoe dmg/threat whenever needed - and the runic power from all those BB insure UB stays up and IF and runic strike stays striking ( which i have macro to every other button i touch ) but thats about all im using my RP for - anything extra is nice but UB/IF/RS are the bread and butter

ive found that with a regular unholy rotation u have periods of down time where theres nothing u can do, so no matter what ur rotation is if something unexpected happens ( and all tanks know that feeling ) u have many instant options

its just an idea for a build and im going to try it for a min to see if there are any cons i havnt forseen or any pros i didnt expect but with the use of ruins over mana/rage i feel the this build will give more options to DK's for those "what now" situations, I am worred about losing wandering plauge but well see the impact after more test runs

think of the boss fight in UK where those adds keep coming - if they spawn during a bad spot in ur rotation it could be a few ticks before u have a ruin avalible to spread a disease or something and ur wandering plague/ UB may not beable to keep them from going to the healer when there throwing those big heals on us

this may not be endgame but im not ready for endgame yet - in my mind im useing this in 5 man content to gear for endgame - when i get there i may need to rethink things well see]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22383047 Wed, 13 May 2009 13:43:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381829 anon : note, def cap is 540]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381829 Wed, 13 May 2009 10:01:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381821 anon : Are you high? seriously, Majority of all the end game raids are dps races, more often then not they opt the warrior, bear or pally to tank the adds and put the dk on the main boss Because a dk can put out more dps which makes you more efficient to main tank because you generate more dps.Also Hysteria and dancing rune weapon are a waste of talent points because they are not needed to hold threat if you are spamming rune strike and have it glyphed, i have tanked 10/25man OS, 10/25 Vault(New), 10/25 Mally, 10/25 naxx, and also downed the first quarter of 10/25 ulduar. In situations that require 2 tanks i generally MT cause i do more boss dps, situations that require 1 tank i switch to my dps gear and spec and have at it while the warrior tanks. dancing rune weapon is just a straight waste IMO and hysteria is more efficient to use on your best dps if you do have them. Blood MT is by far most efficient for single target bosses. i will not argure add control falls to unholy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381821 Wed, 13 May 2009 09:59:58 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381387 anon : One more thing its a waste of a dk going for single target threat!!!!!!!We are built to be the one getting all the adds and crap...let the Bear or the warrior be MT and leave the add job the pallies and DKs]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381387 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:09:34 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381377 anon : Ive tanked the adds in the arena during the gauntlet in ulduar as mainly frost ,BUT got the reduced cooldown on DND and the glyph that goes with it.It was actually the first time i have seen DND being as usefull and that HB really didnt have a chance to make the group survive this boss. All i need to do is DG if any add gets out of range.So DND is really a charm on reduce cd,plus i can always use HB if really its needed but DND give enough threat that all i need to do is sit there take the dmg and let the dps AoE them down while i drop dnd every 10 seconds.
PS. I got a few enchants that give me +atk power plus many STR gems so i realy put out the threat.I prioritize even as a tank(OT)str over any other stat,(once i have it the the 545 def cap) and i still got 29.4 k hp unbuff which is more then enough.
PLZ all you dk tanks out there dont do what i see often and go put stam gems everywhere and stam enchants on everything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381377 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:06:23 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381057 Krisnatharok : Can't see it at work... but wandering plague is an important part of AoE aggro in an Unholy build. You don't need to turn F/U runs to Death as Unholy revolves around Scourge Strike. You don't want to scatter all your aggro around minimally--you'll nearly always have a core group of targets closer to death that you will always have diseases on. Spread your diseases to the new adds, death coil the new ones once or twice, and Wandering Plague/Unholy Blight will do the rest. Gargoyle is still good for helping you finish off the mobs fast enough that you don't lose control of the adds.

Use of Army of the Dead varies on bosses. I hate using it at all on dragon bosses. In OS I usually only use it if on add control--they typically never get to the raid boss as I force them onto the enraged adds and usually get killed off by the waves. I typically keep it as a card up my sleeve in case things get too hectic. Its utility is more limited to 5-man heroics than raids.

If you want single target tanking AND AoE tanking, then dual spec frost or blood and then unholy. You cannot be a master of both--you'll fail at everything then.

My only concern about tanking adds as Frost is how long your aggro will last. Sure, you can d&d, HB, BB, but if you're talking heroic raid adds, and each one has a considerable healthpool, how long will you hold aggro versus pure dps AoE nuking the adds? I'd rather stick with Unholy for permanent, continuous AoE threat.

But as far as single target threat goes, I think you're going to have a hard time matching the threat of a Blood tank's own heals (they generate threat just like a healer does) + Dancing Rune Weapon buffed by Hysteria. Put the Greatness Card on him and you're talking about an incredible threat generator.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381057 Wed, 13 May 2009 03:33:22 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381029 NICK79 : »www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xm···03103120

what do u think about this crazy build i came up with - its aoe unholy - i dropped the wandering plague to grab ability to turn my unholy/frost runes into death runes

rotation would be -
1 - DnD,Ps,It,Pest-
2 - Ds,Ds,UB,Rt,Pest BBx7 ( i got over 3k dps for about 6-7 seconds straight on 3 test dummies in tanking gear ) than repeat line 2 skipping UB and Rune Tap for IF and DC dumps

its sort of target friendly since only 4/15 attacks are single target and when repeting line 2 only 2/9 will be single target - the idea is use as many aoe attacks as possable

u want single target tanking with unholy for bosses..not sure about end game yet but for now i Army of the Dead at the begining of every boss fight (speced for 10 min cool down, and some i may AofD in the middle if theres a spot i know ahead atime about) keeps boss busy long enough to lay your stuff and grab a good agroo lead and the army always holds top agroo till than - may even burn thru to a frist phase quickly

ive only played with it but am very hopfull]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381029 Wed, 13 May 2009 02:52:42 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22380862 Krisnatharok : I have OT'd on Noth in frost spec and it is frustrating when DG is on CD and I just blew HB skeletons when more appear. It's probable that Unholy is the preferred OT/add control tanking spec. As far as damage reduction, though, you can't beat frost. Dipping into the lava + acclimation + any sort of fire resist buff = OS on easymode as a tank. The +25% strength from Unbreakable Armor doesn't hurt either, especially if you can combine it with Greatness or a blood DK's Abomination's Might.

The only other thing worth mentioning in Unholy is AMZ, but Acclimation is kind of similar and is up a lot.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22380862 Wed, 13 May 2009 01:09:02 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377934 JohnnyBoy : Noted. I didn't catch the tanking comment until after I posted.

The AoE damage potential of Unholy along with passive effects makes it a strong tanking contender.

My argument with Frost is you're casting 3 AoE damage attacks per 10 seconds - HB (ideally glyphed) & 2x Blood Boil. This provides great damage reduction and snap aggro on AoE pulls without any kind of prep work at all. Alternatively you could D&D -> HB -> BB for great results where mobs are streaming in. Whichever rotation you use there simply isn't a great deal of "downtime" between AoE attacks where a passive ability becomes all that useful.

My tanking style focuses more on survival and the increased damage reduction provided by a glyphed HB on AoE without any kind of prep-work is fantastic.

I have no experience AoE tanking as Blood for the time being.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377934 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:59:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377933 anon : frost aoe dps does outweigh unholy when you get to endgame situations imo, we were discussing tanking atm, side not to my post about bloodboil.

Again i am not denying that Unholy is the better aoe tanking, i am just saying AoE tanking is still very manageable as a bloodspec, and the tradeoff for the (IMO) superior single target or boss tanking.

my typical pull rotation for aoe goes DND, deathgrip, IT, PS, BB, BB at this point i have more than enough aggro to start my rotation and tab through the targets, with the use of deathstrike i always have more than enough deathrunes to pop a couple BB's if needed to pick up adds, just sub them in place of HS]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377933 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:59:36 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377839 Archivis :

said by JohnnyBoy

said by Archivis

:

Unholy is still king of Aoe tanking. Wandering Plague and Unholy Blight are killer.

The AoE crown appears to have passed to Frost. I have never been out-dpsed on AoE pulls by any other DK spec since 3.1.

The issue isn't necessarily being out DPS'd, it's about threat. Of course, DPS with amplified threat does mean threat, but the majority of threat comes from Howling Blast, which is on a cooldown.

What happens when you blow Howling Blast and three adds appear? What's your method for getting threat then?

Take all three specs. All your runes are on cooldown, what do you do?

Unholy is the only spec with passive AoE. The answer for Unholy is to simply drag your pack of adds over to the new adds and just stand in their way. Wandering Plague and Unholy Blight will pick up enough threat for your runes to come back off cooldown to start adding additional threat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377839 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:45:24 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377816 anon : bloodboil no longer requires diseases to do dmg]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377816 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:41:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377812 JohnnyBoy :

said by Archivis

:

Unholy is still king of Aoe tanking. Wandering Plague and Unholy Blight are killer.

The AoE crown appears to have passed to Frost. I have never been out-dpsed on AoE pulls by any other DK spec since 3.1.

EDIT: Read incorrectly - for tanking Frost / Unholy are pretty competitive though I still feel Frost has the stronger AoE potential along with AoE frost fever for damage reduction.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377812 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:40:38 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377797 Archivis : Even in raids, Unholy is still a strong AoE. The issue with Bloodboil is that you need to first spread diseases. What about areas where adds come up? What if your blood runes are on cooldown when that occurs? Wandering plague ticks, Unholy Blight ticks, with Frost Presence threat amplifiers means that if an add is summoned, created, or spawned while you're in the middle of things, you're covered.

That's something that Blood doesn't have is chaotic add management. Blood's Bloodboil is fine if you can collect the adds right away and get to work, but if adds come in mid rotation, then what?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377797 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:38:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377778 anon : strictly for instances i can not disagree, just seems like a waste to me, since Blood is by far more beneficial for raid tanking and with the buff to bloodboil, a somewhat descent tank should have no problem in heroics as blood either. overall i have to vote blood. but i do agree, for heroics/strictly aoe unholy does have a leg up]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377778 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:33:54 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377592 Archivis : Unholy is still king of Aoe tanking. Wandering Plague and Unholy Blight are killer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377592 Tue, 12 May 2009 14:00:41 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377587 anon : Kinda switching gears a little bit, does anyone have anymore insight on DK tanking as of 12may? I have been tanking since i started my dk about 6 months ago and with all the nerfs i have setlled down in blood, it seems to be the most efficient beings frost got pretty much broken and unholy just doesn't have the same mitigation/instant aggro i can produce in a blood spec. also just my 2cents on dps. Unholy appears to be more of a starter dps as you increase gear and experience with the class i found that raid dps is much better with a frost or blood spec. but when you can come in with half blues as unholy and put up 4kdps in unholy a lot of people find it hard to wein off the spec, but i have recorded 4-5k in frost with slightly better gear. in the end they all have their ups and downs, just falls to player preference, ezmode dps 3-4k go unholy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377587 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:59:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377227 Archivis : Which spec are you referring to? Obliterate could remove diseases unless you spec'd into frost to have it NOT remove diseases.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22377227 Tue, 12 May 2009 12:55:20 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376543 anon : doesnt the obliterate devour the diseases so would u have to put up all the diseases after each obliterate]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376543 Tue, 12 May 2009 11:08:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22358702 JohnnyBoy : After moving to T8 I can see Blood pulling away from the pack a little but will reserve judgement until seeing how it turns out in practice. Pure speculation suggests we'll see Frost and Unholy pull back some from where they are though.

As a Frost DK the bulk of my DPS is derived from Frost Strike and removing extra strikes from rotation becomes a pretty hefty DPS loss. On top of this all of my abilities are already well beyond the crit "soft cap" so the 3% crit buff on T8 2piece doesn't help much especially in comparison to the monster that 4piece T7 currently is.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22358702 Fri, 08 May 2009 11:41:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22355043 anon : After 3.1.2 (T7 4pc nerf + T8 buff). I've 3 pieces of T8 ATM and I'm not sure which spec to go and which glyph to take. 12/0/59 VS 0/10/60

I think 0/10/60 will seriously lack Runic power and would have too much downtime just auto-attacking and waiting for RP/Rune to come up.
SS, Ghoul and DC glyph. It would look like:
PS(15) - IT(10) - BS(10) - BS(10) - SS(20) - UB(-40) =25 RP left
Then
SS(20) - DC(-40) - SS(20) - SS(20) - DC(-40) = 5 left
We are ending doing 5 moves per rune rotation... sometimes 6.

Is grabbing IT glyph over SS a good idea? It would result in more RP per rotation, switching SS for IT,PS and DC/UB.

Also, there is a lot of ArP on T8 set (not sure how much, don't have access to this information atm) and it's one of the worst stats for unholy. Frost is kinda in the same boat, but at least we're doing more physical dmg with frost than Unholy.

Do you think Unholy going to be inferior to blood and Frost after 3.1.2?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22355043 Thu, 07 May 2009 16:20:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22327891 pwrtoppl :

said by abg

:

If it's all fights, it'd be nice to see the WWS/WMO of that.

i too support wws/wmo

if anyone has any meters they can post, people per raid, buffs handed out, gear checks, and the boss, id at least feel a bit better about being overgeared and still doing "bad" dps]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22327891 Sat, 02 May 2009 02:12:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22325057 abg : I definitely think that 18k is more of the exception, and agree, I'd like to know if that is on a gimick fight like Thaddius or standing in the light on Hodir or if that is on pretty much all fights.

If it's all fights, it'd be nice to see the WWS/WMO of that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22325057 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:57:04 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324999 anon : well really i didnt get any clear answer...maybe he was on thaddius (where ive had my self gettin over 20 k crits with DS).i just dont think its logical to be on a normal raid boss and even a few minutes in the fight where you get your trinkets procing,where weapons crusader pops , with your 9% dmg boost from blood tree and hysteria poped that youll get lets say a 16-17 k crit.Im pulling atm on single Boss encounters in the 3.9-4.1 k dps range.And MAX ill get maybe 11k crit.
Am i playing the same game cuz i feel a litle week if others are doing 18k crits with DS.
If im missing on something plz let me know so i can boost the dps i do a litle more over the edge.THX]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324999 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:46:01 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324885 Thaler : True, but overall, Blood's big FU button got taken down a peg (%140 to ~130%) and had HS increased. I've got BoH as well, and I've seen some nearly 11k crits w/o Hysteria. Of course, this was with Mirror + Cloak Tailor proc (ie. +1300 AP), so again, its highly conditional.

In short, I doubt you're going to see anywhere near 12k with a cold-start DS on a target.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324885 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:25:27 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324863 abg : Before 3.1 I was getting 11k crits w/o BoH on normal boss fights w/o Hysteria. That was with Oblit, and talented, DS is on bar with what Oblit was, if not better.

The one thing I found as blood was that given the exact same buffs and debuffs, my crits still ranged anywhere from 7k to 11k. Perhaps Grim Toll procs were the big difference (~40% arp before 3.1).

19k seems more like w/ Hysteria on a gimmick fight, but perhpas not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324863 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:21:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324802 Archivis : I probably would, because I'm just that pro.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324802 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:13:18 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324776 Thaler :

said by Warrok :

Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1.

Either fights with a damage boost (Thad comes to mind), or while under the effects of hysteria, or both. I seriously doubt Blood DKs are pulling off 12-19k crits totally unmodified.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22324776 Fri, 01 May 2009 14:10:06 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22323137 pwrtoppl :

said by Warrok :

Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1..just wondering.Im using glyph of DS plus hystaria plus all the goodies in blood tree to increase its dmg.and i got the off-hand that increases the DS base dmg..which increases mine to over 900 base dmg.Im really trying to figure it out.

see, thats what im trying to understand too...
my dk is full t7.5 and even got some ulduar gear last night and im still not crankin out numbers like these people are
ive thought about frost several times, and might even do my duel talent just to try it for the moment

i tried unholy and it was distasteful
riyo, ds does get a buff from diseases in dmg, read the tooltip a bit closer, my rotation for blood goes

line 1: it, ps, hs, ds, pest, dc dump
line 2: ds, ds, pest, hs, dc dump

i open with line 1 and repeat line 2
so in the end, i use dieases only once per fight, and against someone like kologram, where there are 3 parts, i can see an increase in dps a bit
but even without, and trying the ob route, i still cant get it to work like these other people doin 12-19k crits]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22323137 Fri, 01 May 2009 09:04:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22322963 anon : Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1..just wondering.Im using glyph of DS plus hystaria plus all the goodies in blood tree to increase its dmg.and i got the off-hand that increases the DS base dmg..which increases mine to over 900 base dmg.Im really trying to figure it out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22322963 Fri, 01 May 2009 08:18:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318918 anon : ive always had larger dps numbers in blood then unholy, i always feel that unholy hits fast cuase of gcd's but the runes never pop up fast enough to keep the flow of the rotation, theres always a spot where you used up your RP on FS and that rune isnt off cd and your sitting there white hitting for a second or two. theres also the PS and IT time difference, over a long enough rotation the rune cd get stoo spread out

oh and to start your rotation you should PS first then IT]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318918 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:54:42 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318478 Alexoi :

said by Archerus :

I always been frost before 3.1, playing 1 disease 21/50/0.

I've tried 17/51/3 HB glyph and didn't liked it much, getting owned on the dps meter by a rogue with about the same gear quality (over 1k dps on most boss fight in Naxx25). I know they got buffed, but I was prolly doing something wrong lol.

Now I'm trying 13/51/7, Icy touch glyph, unholy presence.
It looks like that:
It-PS-OB-FS-BS-BS-FS
OB-FS-OB-FS-OB-FS HB when ryme proc, HoW when the cooldown is up for the extra RP....

You have 3 OB on your 2nd rotation because you have Epidemic. Unless you do it very fast with blood presence,
the disease will fell off on the 2nd OB. Even with unholy presence, just barely make it. When Rime or KM procs and time to use HB or FS, then I need to reapply the disease and that really mess up my rotation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318478 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:35:06 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318438 Alexoi :

said by abg

:

So I see a lot of people doing Blood and Unholy. I've been doing frost. Anyone else doing well with this, and if so, what's your spec, glyphs, and rotation?

I'm using this:

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···7;58671;

Rotation is:
IT (macroed w/ blood tap) > OB > OB > BS > FS dump.
Use HB if Rime Procs or give it a spot over your first OB if you are fighting 2 or more mobs. Doing this in Unholy Pres seems to work best over Blood Pres. (was about ~100 dps average difference).

I've tried the same rotation with the HB glyph and it just doesn't seem to work quite as well and gets a bit sloppy with Rime procs. I was doing HB > OB > BS > BS > FS dump followed by HB > OB > OB > FS dump.

The big thing I've found is that OB is more single target dps than HB and by using the HB glyph you have to drop either IT or FS so you typically get 1 less frost strike a rotation, which is on par dps-wise with OB.

This spec/rotation is supposed to really shine when you get the glyph that incrases FS/DC dmg. Likewise, a mod that tells you when KM procs so you can dump a FS is very helpful as well.

Anyone else doing DPS frost, and if so, what are you doing for it?

I have the simular build like yours except I spec it for pvp.

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58677;

I was using your rotation before. You are right when Rime procs, it mess up my rotations. I use this rotation now.

IT-PS-OB-BS-BS-FS,
OB-HB-OB-FS.

Use FS when killing machine procs and use HB when Rime procs.

I use the EvenAlert mod, that will pop a big KM and Rime icon with timer when they proc. So I know it is time to use FS or HS.
If you are not using IT in your rotation, why you have IT glyph and Improved Icy Touch?

I love that Icy Talons, it makes KM procs so often.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318438 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:27:58 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318385 anon : I always been frost before 3.1, playing 1 disease 21/50/0.

I've tried 17/51/3 HB glyph and didn't liked it much, getting owned on the dps meter by a rogue with about the same gear quality (over 1k dps on most boss fight in Naxx25). I know they got buffed, but I was prolly doing something wrong lol.

Now I'm trying 13/51/7, Icy touch glyph, unholy presence.
It looks like that:
It-PS-OB-FS-BS-BS-FS
OB-FS-OB-FS-OB-FS HB when ryme proc, HoW when the cooldown is up for the extra RP.
Using fallen crusader (razorice might be better).
It might be just the play style, but i'm doing more dps with this spec than unholy... i must be doing something wrong, because most ppl say unholy is the way to go in naxx gear...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318385 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:17:59 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318153 anon : ive done a dps frost specs, the dps was nice but the rotation was a bit sloppy, i couldnt keep it on track after 4 or 5 rotations, so my dps would slightly decline over time, ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318153 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:29:39 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318100 abg : So I see a lot of people doing Blood and Unholy. I've been doing frost. Anyone else doing well with this, and if so, what's your spec, glyphs, and rotation?

I'm using this:

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···7;58671;

Rotation is:
IT (macroed w/ blood tap) > OB > OB > BS > FS dump.
Use HB if Rime Procs or give it a spot over your first OB if you are fighting 2 or more mobs. Doing this in Unholy Pres seems to work best over Blood Pres. (was about ~100 dps average difference).

I've tried the same rotation with the HB glyph and it just doesn't seem to work quite as well and gets a bit sloppy with Rime procs. I was doing HB > OB > BS > BS > FS dump followed by HB > OB > OB > FS dump.

The big thing I've found is that OB is more single target dps than HB and by using the HB glyph you have to drop either IT or FS so you typically get 1 less frost strike a rotation, which is on par dps-wise with OB.

This spec/rotation is supposed to really shine when you get the glyph that incrases FS/DC dmg. Likewise, a mod that tells you when KM procs so you can dump a FS is very helpful as well.

Anyone else doing DPS frost, and if so, what are you doing for it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318100 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:17:50 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318068 anon : Riyoku / dethecus (i might have pvp gear on) DS, DS, HS, HS , DC, DC no real change the only thing is i wasnt hitting very hard with HS to waste a DS on for diseases, in a 25man ill hit anywhere from 12-19k DS and a 7-9k HS, so since diseases dont add dmg to DS your wasting DS's on putting up your diseases, (plus if 1 didnt hit your rotation gets slowed) my HS are only hitting 1.5k more (crit) with a disease up, so single target bosses it felt like a waste of dps. this way your rotation has a smooth flow and is a nice way to keep your dps up while waiting for 4/5t8 and ArP]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318068 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:10:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318035 abg :

said by Ghastlyone

:

Again, you fail to list any other talents for a Blood spec DK that would be a "HUGE" dps booster over Blade Barrier or Dodge or (I love this one......) "better for survival" lol.

1) How is Blade Barrier helping you get Rune Strike procs now that it's damage reduction and not parry?

2) As mentioned, no one cares about trash, and going out on a limb here, I'm going to say no one cares about scarabs on anub or spiders on maexxna.

3) If any actual boss is hitting you, allowing you to dodge, then your tanks suck worse than getting dodge in a dps spec when other viable options are available.

I don't think you'll see a massive dps increase, but you should absolutely see an increase, unless you are running diseaseless or your tanks suck at their job because they bought their account and really don't know what they are doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22318035 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:05:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317984 pwrtoppl : riyo, can i get your toon name? and rotation? cause i want to hit your dps and even in full 213s, with a disease DS rotation (mentioned page one of this post) i cant do what your doing with no disease]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317984 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:55:18 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317924 anon : im running a 52/2/17 spec, no points in rune mastery and 1 point in blood caked (ive noticed that bloodcaked is now towards the bottom of my dps list and doesnt change much with 3 points in it vs 1 point) and 0 in epidemic, i put 3 in the d&dcd/15% dc dmg, i also use the +15% DC glyph, my top 4 dmgs are DS, white hits, HS, then DC. im still running a diseasless spec atm subing DS for OB, i still using Armageddon (fail) and i replaced grim toll with pyrite infuser and only have +46 armor pen to helm, gear is hard to come by atm nothing drops. once i get more ArP stacked ill prolly start using grim toll again, but atm pyrite is giving me more dps, on avg i pull about 5.4k dps (6.1k on a boss like patchwerk) ive ran numbers and specs over and over again and can only see that using diseases for blood will only be useful when you have 4/5 T8. just recently joined one of the top guilds on the server and this fail dk told me i was a scrub/noob whatever for using my spec with little ArP, he outgears me 10fold with the guild clearing ulduar on a weekly basis. tho when i finally got a chance to get in ulduar with them, i scrubbed his ass on every fight, topped DPS on everyboss, i passed on all the gear and /gquit at the end (cant riad hardcore for the next few weeks)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317924 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:39:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317476 pwrtoppl :

said by Ghastlyone

said by Krisnatharok

:

Seriously... 2% dodge is not going to make a difference between "every other melee backing out" and you staying in...

Over a 3hour raid span? Yes, it adds up.

how does it work when youre dpsin the boss with no adds goin at ya? like maly, grand widow, thaddius, grobb, gluth, patch, decon, flame, instructor, gothik (if your tank cant hold threat), four horsemen, noth (again, tank issues apply), heigan, lothoab, sarth, sapp, kt, and all the heroics im not bothering to name

when does the 2% proc there again? i missed that part

edit: forgot kologram, and several other ulduar bosses

and are you tankin trash at the same time for it to proc on the trash pulls?
if youre tanks are doing their jobs with any decency, you wont get a proc most of the night

unless your 3 hours are spent on mexx or anub]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317476 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:42:38 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22316444 Krisnatharok : Interesting. I just NOW noticed that Black Ice was changed to increase Shadow damage. Can you link me the 10/61 build using getbuffed's calc? Do extra points go into Improved Unholy presence?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22316444 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:12:17 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22316412 anon : Got a question... I'm using the 17/0/54 spec POST Ulduar Patch and haven't really gotten a good test of the DPS capabilities on a good boss fight. Now I'm starting to wonder if one of the cookie cutter 0/10/61 would be a better spec for me? I Like the blood for the threat reduction but I'm also trying to max my DPS. If someone smart on DK's would perhaps take a look at me and see if I'm just paranoid or if a change is needed... thanks.

Kharnedge on Bladefist US realm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22316412 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:07:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22310554 Krisnatharok : I just ran three heroics... DTK, VH, and CoS. In DTK and VH, I got two rune strikes in each. In CoS I got a few more but only on the non-elite zombies who have all of what, 1000 hp?

Rune strike is bad for DPS anyways because it has a high threat multiplier on it. That's like a warlock speccing into an imaginery talent to increase free searing pain procs. WTF? Right.
--
If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. - RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22310554 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:11:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309688 Archivis : »www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMVh0Ic

That's an example of a spec where the points are better spent on talents that impact DPS. I didn't bother spending points deeper in the tree to make the point. The rest is self explanatory. No points spent in the Parry talents.

»www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZZfM0hxcb

There's an example of 20 points deep in Unholy, not using any talent points in Dodge.

So, Vicious Strikes sucks for Blood, is that what you're saying? You're telling me that an attack that you'll use 2-3 times a minute, getting a 6% crit bonus and a 30% bonus to crit damage is worse than 2% dodge?

You have a 2% chance to dodge attacks on a boss fight where the majority of the bosses and adds never touch you.... all so you can get 50% additional white attack damage? Rune Strike probably does less than a half a percentage point of all my damage on boss fights and you want to spend 2 points to increase the chance that this proc occurs by 2%?

You're dumb.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309688 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:38:12 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309670 Krisnatharok : Over a 3-hour raid span I bet Vicious Strikes would be a big boost as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309670 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:36:03 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309641 Ghastlyone :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Seriously... 2% dodge is not going to make a difference between "every other melee backing out" and you staying in...

Over a 3hour raid span? Yes, it adds up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309641 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:29:11 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309637 Ghastlyone :

said by Archivis

said by Sithra

:

Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.

while ignoring other talents that are either (A) Better for DPS or (B) Better for survival just do not know how to play.

Again, you fail to list any other talents for a Blood spec DK that would be a "HUGE" dps booster over Blade Barrier or Dodge or (I love this one......) "better for survival" lol.

It's alright though Archivis, we all know you're the master of the DK class and the master of all knowledge regarding WoW.

Do us all a favor.....don't come back to WoW. That'd be one less asshole that people on your server would have to put up with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309637 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:28:50 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309542 Krisnatharok : Seriously... 2% dodge is not going to make a difference between "every other melee backing out" and you staying in...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309542 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:12:39 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309515 Archivis :

said by Ghastlyone

said by bTU

:

So you base it off your DPS on trash pulls and not bosses? :uhh:

Even boss fights.

Take Anub for example, I would get a ton of Runestrike procs from the carrion beetles that spawn and always attack the melee group. Same on Maexxa with the spider adds.

Show me a log of you topping out damage with your spec. I've done/seen the math, even when not playing anymore, I know more about DK's than you could ever hope to imagine. Did you forget who's thread your posting in? Go check and see how many unique visitors there are to this page. If I'm saying that the parry talent points and the dodge talent points are garbage... then my word is gold and those points are garbage for DPS DK's.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309515 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:08:46 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308976 Ghastlyone :

said by bTU

:

So you base it off your DPS on trash pulls and not bosses? :uhh:

Even boss fights.

Take Anub for example, I would get a ton of Runestrike procs from the carrion beetles that spawn and always attack the melee group. Same on Maexxa with the spider adds.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308976 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:23:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308955 bTU :

said by Ghastlyone

said by Archivis

said by Sithra

:

Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.

You keep thinking that Archivis lol.

So far in every raid I've been in, I've topped every damage meter and counting. And yes, I've far out dps'd the cookie cutter 17/0/54 DK's, the 0/10/61 DK's, etc, etc.

I see you still didn't give any other "Blood" talent examples I could put those other 5 points into that would boost my dps so far up there, that it makes Blade Barrier a stupid choice...same goes for the Unholy tree.

Take Naxx 25, Military qtr. for example.

Everytime I ran this place, when we pulled the groups with the Dark Touched Warriors.....like clockwork, ALL the melee would have to back out after a few seconds except for you know who? Me. I could stay in the full duration, and get huge dps.

Have you ever tried spec'ing into Dodge and Blade Barrier (before the change) for a dps spec? If not Archivis and you've never even tried it, don't fuckin' call people dumb or stupid,it makes you look like a complete ass.

So you base it off your DPS on trash pulls and not bosses? :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308955 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:20:51 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308715 Ghastlyone :

said by Archivis

said by Sithra

:

Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.

said by Sithra

:

Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.

Any DK who has the mentality that Dodge is going to boost their DPS through Rune Strike damage, while ignoring other talents that are either (A) Better for DPS or (B) Better for survival just do not know how to play.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308604 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:25:49 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306296 pwrtoppl :

said by Sithra

:

Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.

eh, too much work to keep an eye on threat tables, im the kinda person who likes to dps the add the tank pulled but isnt actively swingin at, using rune strike is a nice way to point aurayas cats at myself

otherwise, not a bad choice]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306296 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:02:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306281 Sithra : Dodge for rune strike DPS.

nice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306281 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:52:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306266 Archivis :

said by Ghastlyone

:

Second Archivis,

What other talents are you going to put those points into that are going to give you THAT much more dps as Blood? Vicious Strikes? lol, no thanks...that's junk.

Scent of Blood? no thanks, thats another junk ass talent. Rune Tap? Again...garbage.

We're talking 1st tier talent points here, not 3rd tier. more times than not, those points in Dodge and Parry have kept me alive in raids pretty often, while other melee classes are dying.

You can go 51 points into Blood, Frost, or Unholy, without picking up Blade Barrier, Toughness, or Anticipation. None of these talents boost your DPS at all. All of the talents you would get, can increase your DPS significantly.

I was going to write something up, but I'm running late and I'll just settle with "You're dumb" and ride on my reputation as always being right as back up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22306266 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:41:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304797 Krisnatharok : I'm agreeing with Archivis.

In an average heroic, I might get *one* rune strike off in the entire instance because I focus fired on a trash mob the tank wasn't directly attacking. In a raid, if you are pulling aggro off the tank, you're going to die. If you need to off-tank something, you should be rolling an off-tank spec. That's why we have dual spec now.

However, you use plague strike with every rotation, so no matter how slight the dps increase, it is still a dps increase (30% on bonus damage is nothing to sneeze at). If unholy, it's practically required.

And rune tap is actually not that bad for a one point talent. Combine that with Ghoul Sacrifice, a health pot, and a health stone and you probably just self-healed for 60% of your hp.

said by abg

said by Krisnatharok

:

If you pull aggro, the raid boss will one shot you. You might get one rune strike in before that happens, IF your weapon is fast enough. Perhaps useful while leveling, has no utility in an end-game spec.

I was propositioning a hypothetical. There is no reason for a dps class to be stacking dodge for rune strikes. Is he hoping he parries a boss attack? Odds are it will crit him for 90% of his health anyways...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304797 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:45:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304289 Ghastlyone :

said by Archivis

:

Yeah, but I was just trying to lead into if you're putting points into dodge/parry as a PVE DPS class, you're dumb.

First off.....I never said once anywhere about pulling Aggro on a raid boss. You dudes need to learn to read.

Second Archivis,

What other talents are you going to put those points into that are going to give you THAT much more dps as Blood? Vicious Strikes? lol, no thanks...that's junk.

Scent of Blood? no thanks, thats another junk ass talent. Rune Tap? Again...garbage.

We're talking 1st tier talent points here, not 3rd tier. more times than not, those points in Dodge and Parry have kept me alive in raids pretty often, while other melee classes are dying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304289 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:05:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304098 Archivis : Yeah, but I was just trying to lead into if you're putting points into dodge/parry as a PVE DPS class, you're dumb.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22304098 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:28:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303703 abg :

said by Krisnatharok

Did you run in early? Trying to figure out how you pulled raid boss agro.

Ok, semi-sarcasm aside, if this happens, either 1) your tank isn't do his/her job or 2) you aren't watching your threat meter. Neither of those should be the case.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303703 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:08:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303242 Krisnatharok : If you pull aggro, the raid boss will one shot you. You might get one rune strike in before that happens, IF your weapon is fast enough. Perhaps useful while leveling, has no utility in an end-game spec.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303242 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:40:59 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303200 Archivis : Please tell me that your "DPS spec" which has 5 points in dodge is some sort of pseudo tank/DPS spec and isn't actually spent as DPS talent points.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22303200 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:33:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22301992 Ghastlyone :

said by analanon :

yes, i agree, its retarded to put them there, considering that it only gives a SMALL benefit to one of my abilities.

however, i`d rather have that one than the 2% dodge, which does NOT contribute to my dps.

You'de be surprised. For my DPS spec, I run all 5 points in Dodge....remember when you Dodge something, you get a Runestrike proc, and raid buffed those babies hit for 9-10k sometimes.

Another reason I run all 5 points there (along with Blade Barrier) is for when I pull aggro. Back before 3.1 I ran 5 points into Blade Barrier and 5 points into Dodge. With this amount of parry and dodge, I could literally go hog wild in fights....if I pulled aggro, I'd usually Dodge and Parry a few times, and get Runestrike procs. By this time the mob was usaully dead.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22301992 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:17:46 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22300930 Krisnatharok : So I'd just like to agree with some Arch said a long time ago.

I'm trying to build up my dps gear as an alt spec, because as soon as my guild starts farming Naxx they want me as dps and not tanking. I'm rather mis-itemized--I have 226 hit, have the pvp chest, and the T7 dps gloves. Obviously a work in progress.

In five-man heroics, I generally pull about 2400 dps average through the whole instance. Respectable, but not knock-your-socks-off ridiculous.

I've started watching my AP procs closely and had one of those "stars aligned" moments--I had my 1000 AP trinket proc, my Fallen Crusader rune proc, and Abomination Might proc from another DK in the group all at once. I had 130 RP and pulled my Gargoyle on the first boss in Azjol Nerub and pulled down 3600 dps! Definitely a very fun experience.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22300930 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 02:08:30 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22300332 Krisnatharok : It'd be nice if they swapped Morbidity and Vicious Strikes. VS is specific to an Unholy setup but Tier 1--Morbidity would benefit more DKs if they could grab it in Tier 1 and skip VS completely.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22300332 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:36:27 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297019 anon : yes, i agree, its retarded to put them there, considering that it only gives a SMALL benefit to one of my abilities.

however, i`d rather have that one than the 2% dodge, which does NOT contribute to my dps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297019 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:33:01 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293248 pwrtoppl :

said by Ghastlyone

:

Why do so many Blood spec DK's waste points in Vicious Strikes? That's a garbage talent for a Blood DK, you'de benefit more from puting those 2 points into something else.

o.0 thats where my two points went!
...maybe, just maybe, blizzard will let me drop them somewhere else further in the tree and still alow me second tier points

it is a waste i agree...could do 2% to dodge...but dammit, im too lazy to respec for the billionth time]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293248 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 03:02:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293214 Krisnatharok :

said by analanon :

ey guys, just dropping by.

i made myself a pretty interesting spec yesterday that i`d like to share with you, please feel free to point out mistakes.

51/10/10

trying to get deathcoil dps up on this, as well as overall damage.

i pushed 4.4k dps in blues and some heroic epics and 2 t7.5 parts yesterday, and i didn`t think it was bad at all.

Fix'd: »www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVGV00I···c:ILGMVm]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293214 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:34:56 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293086 Ghastlyone :

Why do so many Blood spec DK's waste points in Vicious Strikes? That's a garbage talent for a Blood DK, you'de benefit more from puting those 2 points into something else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22293086 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:21:30 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22292998 anon : ey guys, just dropping by.

i made myself a pretty interesting spec yesterday that i`d like to share with you, please feel free to point out mistakes.

51/10/10

trying to get deathcoil dps up on this, as well as overall damage.

i pushed 4.4k dps in blues and some heroic epics and 2 t7.5 parts yesterday, and i didn`t think it was bad at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22292998 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:39:07 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291093 bTU : Has there been any new comparisons for deep blood DPS on death strike with glyph and improving talent vs obliterate with glyph? I have a medium blood and unholy build pulling between 3400-3500 DPS. I want to toy with it and see if gargoyle will make that much of a difference or if I'm better off keeping the points in blood for the AP and crit. I have scourge strike and others up to gargoyle, just not sure if it would help that much. My raid buffed AP and crit is ~4800 & 37%. I know I need a better weapon that titansteel destroyer, but I've lost KT 25 wep to 3 retadins, 3 fury warriors and even a hunter because my rolls suck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291093 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:40:11 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290340 Krisnatharok : Meh, sorry. I'm no longer a pro on dps blood. I hate DRW being nerfed. It's less effective and up almost constantly now.

But yeah, both of you are right. Drop GoD and pick up GoDRW.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290340 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:19:07 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289931 Tirael :

said by Thaler

said by Krisnatharok

:

Bad. Go with the cookie-cutter blood spec:

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;59309;

Why would you get Glyph of Disease over Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon? Longer ultimate FU ability FTW, IMHO.

I agree. The cookie cutter blood spec actually does better as diseaseless, which negates having Glyph of Disease. It is only useful when doing aoe damage on trash. Glyph of DW>Glyph of disease]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289931 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:01:35 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289916 Tirael : Honestly, frost DW tanking is better overall in terms of threat/mitigation than 2h frost tanking. This is simply because you can get more avoidance from trinkets and runeforging. 2h frost, however, only suffers about a 4% avoidance loss overall, but can gain about an additional 2-3k more hp than a DW. DW frost tanks suffer from having to stack more def than a 2h frost tank. The also loose a trinket slot to a def trinket (either SoP or RC). DW frost provides a steady stream of threat because, similar to a rogue, as long as you are at your spell hit cap (368 with virulence) or somewhere close to it, your weapons hit faster, providing for more threat to be generated. The only downside I see to DW frost in the end is that you will get parry-crushed more than a 2h frost tank. It may go unnoticed in a good portion of fights, but in fights where it may matter more (Maly, Sarth3d, any ulduar fight sans FL) where healing is already intensive enough, giving the boss an attack speed bonus (however slight) could be the difference between survival and ghost running.
--
"Conan, what is best in life?"

"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289916 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:59:19 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289895 Thaler :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Bad. Go with the cookie-cutter blood spec:

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;59309;

Why would you get Glyph of Disease over Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon? Longer ultimate FU ability FTW, IMHO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289895 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:56:14 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289855 slashr : Our guild has a DW frost DK who does awesome. I will never count it out again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289855 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:48:17 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289234 bTU : Not sure why people discard DW for tanking as a DK. I MT Naxx 25 as a frost DW. Maybe Ulduar is a different story for it, but since my guild basically just does FL on 10 and 25 then goes back to Naxx 25 to finish gearing (we're not the fastest guild on the server) and I have no problem with threat or avoidance/mitigation.

Also, macros are for lazy people who can't figure out how to play their class/spec in real time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289234 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:47:20 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285834 Krisnatharok : Bad. Go with the cookie-cutter blood spec:

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;59309;

Necrosis and Impurity won't make up for losing end-tier blood talents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285834 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:55:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285417 anon : What do ya'll think about my blood spec, its based around diseased blood, with death strike being the top dmg attack

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0;59309;]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285417 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:31:14 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22284763 anon : LOL ok so that sort of cuts the discusion.Well ill put that projet back up on the shelft.But any input about anything new coming to improve this spec since it seems so useless.
Thx for saving me a few respecs just to end up dissapointed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22284763 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:19:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22284165 anon : If this was pre 3.1 dual wield would have been great for you because it was one of the two highest DK DPS spec's, however it is the here and now and if you equip a one-hander you are liable to get smacked. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22284165 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:27:45 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283633 pwrtoppl :

said by Archivis

:

Don't dualwield as a DK.

best one line ever said to a dk. :)

wait wait, at the end add, "...ever."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283633 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:40:16 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283243 Archivis : Don't dualwield as a DK.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283243 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:50:11 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283241 anon : Was wondering for duel weild if it could be anyway a viable spec dps wise.i got two 156.6 dps swords one for main hand at 2.5 sec rate and the other 1.6 sec rate.thinking it would be great to have seperate weapon from the one i use to tank since always having to go runeforge sort of sux.I would love some comments before i go test it out]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22283241 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:49:49 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22278023 Alexoi :

said by Archivis :

.... The ! will put it in the on position and leave it on.

I don't think it's necessary, but it can't hurt. It's like /cast Auto Shot. You'll keep turning your shots on and off. Put a ! and it'll always turn it to on.

Is the ! new? I remember way back that you told me to put ghoul stun and rune strike in macro and I didn't see there is a ! for the rune strike there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22278023 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:40:56 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22277322 anon : so the exemple you have there is the correct format if i want to use RS when ever its up while im using other abilities?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22277322 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:59:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22275438 Krisnatharok : I use the "!" modifier in my RP dump macro:

#showtooltip
/cast Frost Strike
/cast !Rune Strike

It will cast Frost Strike, but also activate Rune Strike whenever it is up. Since Rune Strike is off the global cooldown you just have to press it once to strike with both.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22275438 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:13:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273472 Archivis : Some folks debate its necessity, but apparently, like other abilities, people think that by using the ! it won't toggle it off/on. The ! will put it in the on position and leave it on.

I don't think it's necessary, but it can't hurt. It's like /cast Auto Shot. You'll keep turning your shots on and off. Put a ! and it'll always turn it to on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273472 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:43:31 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273375 Thaler : Mind me asking what the ! does for macros?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273375 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:28:48 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273349 Archivis : You have to understand that Rune Strike and Frost Strike operate on two separate bases for mechanics. Frost Strike costs 32(40 unglyphed) Runic Power and activates a global cooldown. Rune Strike costs something like 20 RP (I could be wrong, but this is irrelevant) and does not trigger the global cooldown. This ability can be activated while you're in the middle of activating other abilities. Because of this, you want to add /cast !Rune Strike to all of your abilities (via macros). This will attempt to trigger this ability whenever it is available (and if you're tanking, it'll be nearly all the time). This will let you put out more threat.

Now, I know you have a slow weapon, but DKs parry a lot, which means that your next auto attack will come at half speed. With a 3.5 speed weapon, this could be like swinging at 1.7 speed or so, and having Rune Strike proc'ing back to back equals monster threat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273349 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:25:23 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273271 anon : Oh its good to know that about rune strike.thought i was better of just doing more FS then doing every now and then a RS.Ill try it out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273271 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:11:45 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273185 Archivis : Yeah, what AB said. Rune Strike has an increased threat multiplier to it (they did this when they reduced the damage component). Rune Strike is one of the best things you can do to handle single target threat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273185 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:59:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273156 Thaler : *shrugs* Can't say I've ever been in similar circumstances. Usually I'm just swimming in RP & threat while tanking, so I'm looking forward to productive means to shed such RP. So, I just use Rune Strike whenever it procs and use Frost Strike when I'm on a RP dump cycle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273156 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:56:09 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273108 anon : i do have unbrakable armor to as a glyph...but the thing about frost strike is you have an increased chance of crit + it deals alot of dmg and threat.Often when tanking you only have a split second to get that threat required to maintain solid aggro with high dpsers.So if you generate more rp and your FS cost less you find your self using more FS then generating lots of aggro on your primary target and also having less to worry about expertise and more about having some hit rating.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22273108 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:48:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272823 Thaler : Really? I'd think as a tank you'd want more damage mitigation glyphs, or threat ones, such as...

Glyph of Howling Blast
Glyph of Unbreakable Armor
Glyph of Obliterate
etc.

I dunno. My specialty is DPS. Tanking's a whole new beastie to me though.

(edit) Plus, who cares if you have to wait until next melee hit for Runic Strike? It's off the Global Cooldown, so you can Runic Strike AND (insert ability here) for even more threat. More threat's never really a bad thing for a tank.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272823 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:01:03 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272789 anon : Well I personaly ben tanking frost for a while now and never really been using runic strike since you need to wait on the weapons hit.I use glyphs of frost strike and the one for more rp for icy touch.So you always have loads of rp for frost stikes and likewyse available on demande.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272789 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:55:40 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272760 Thaler : Er...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Frost Strike just Frost spec's "improved" runic dump capabilities? Being such, shouldn't you still be dumping RP when your runes are all on cooldown?

Can't say I've ever played a spec that gave me -zero- downtime and I was unable to squeeze off a Deathcoil, Unholy Blight, or Frost Strike.

As for Runic strike, well, if you're Frost DPS, it doesn't really matter. The mobs you're targeting aren't hitting your face, and thus aren't proccing up Runic strike. If you're a tank, I don't see why you wouldn't use Runic Strike. It's off the GCD (Next Melee Attack), so all it serves is extra +threat/damage w/o giving up a cooldown. Why not use -both- Runic Strikes and Frost Strikes?

Personally, I'm Blood DPS. The only time I use Runic Strike is when I'm soloing, or have switched to Frost tank spec. Being such, I just have Runic Strike macroed into all my melee strike abilities, and don't even waste space for that thing on my bar. The quicker crap gets dead, the less time I need to fart around doing my dailies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272760 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:50:23 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22269058 Krisnatharok : PS.... question for those who know:

As a frost DK, should I be placing emphasis on Obliterate, Frost Strike, or Howling Blast?

Also, since Frost Strike hits much harder than runic strike, can I just drop runic strike from my action bar and focus entirely on frost strike? Why or why not?
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22269058 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:41:44 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22269048 Krisnatharok : Lol.

That means to dump (Get rid of) your runic power. Death coils, frost strikes, or unholy blight, depending on your tree.

I activated dual spec today. I decided to go with frost/frost so my action bars don't change much and I don't have to replace my glyphs (just swap unbreakable armor for something else).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22269048 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:40:26 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268010 anon : what is the rp(dump) what spell is that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268010 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:42:23 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232755 Krisnatharok : Um, sure. That's standard fare for Frost. See the first page of this thread for Archivis' sample frost build.

said by Archivis

:

Frost 17/51/3

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

Fluffer points in frost has been reduced, so you can accumulate all of your points for about the same price. You can choose Deathchill over Hungering Cold for personal preference (but minimal DPS increase)

Rotation:

Line 1:Blood Tap ITx2, PS, BS, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Line 2:IT, Pest, OB, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Repeat Line 2

Rime procs, you pop Howling Blast and continue Frost Striking. You trade heart strike damage for the ability to constantly have disesaes on every target and to keep plague strike damage on your target at all times, which should boost Obliterate Damage.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232755 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:29:40 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232752 anon : i baseing the spc on frost strike and OB for damage and just useing IT and not PS]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232752 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:27:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232640 Krisnatharok : Yeah... time for that to be changed already!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232640 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:27:48 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232632 anon : i would but they have't updated there talent trees yet :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22232632 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:25:45 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226550 Krisnatharok : I specifically linked the getbuffed.com talent calc because it's not blocked at work. Can you make your build there?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226550 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:57:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226478 anon : thats kinda what i was looking at but not there yet

heres the build »thottbot.com/test/death_knight/t···EknxBd57]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226478 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:32:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226030 Krisnatharok :

said by Coke :

which would be better Bloody Vengeance or Guile of Gorefind?
3% more damage against 45% more crit damage with bloody strike, frost strike, and obliterate. plz tell me

Can you post a complete build from the talent calc here?: »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···099551_6

My first thought is that Guile of Gorefiend is better, because it gives you 45% more crit damage from BS/FS/HB. However, Bloody Vengeance gives you 3% more physical damage and stacks 3 times. So that's 9% more damage.

I'm assuming you're using something like this: »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···051013zh

However, you're missing your 5/5 Expertise points in Tundra Stalker that also increases your damage by 10%, so I'd recommend this instead: »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···510135zg

Two talents are optional... 3/3 Scent of Blood is meant to generate runic power, but if you have an awesome tank and never get hit, you could switch those points to 3/3 Vendetta to make things a little easier on the healer. 1/3 Veteran of the Third War could be switched to 1/1 Mark of Blood.

I just can't see you giving up Tundra Stalker, which is +10% damage to all targets infected with frost fever.

Alternatively, if you were adamant on giving up Tundra Stalker, you could do the link posted below, which gives you Abomination's Might, which is a raid-wide +10% strength buff. Your melee dps will love you.

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···051012zh]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22226030 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:47:44 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223503 anon : which would be better Bloody Vengeance or Guile of Gorefind?
3% more damage against 45% more crit damage with bloody strike, frost strike, and obliterate. plz tell me]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223503 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:05:16 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223417 Krisnatharok : What's your gear/hit? Why DW? It's dying in about a week anyways.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223417 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:50:25 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223355 anon : im going 2 try 30/41/0 spec tomorrow. it looks like it could do good dps im played right. ill put up a rotation after iv tryed it. heres a link »thottbot.com/test/death_knight/t···EnnwR151]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22223355 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 05:25:40 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22219607 Krisnatharok :

said by Leathal

:

I don't know about patch 3.1 or how it will affect my DK, but I have a Goul build or will have once I am lvl 80.. it's something like 45/0/26

L.

Not if you're serious DPS. You need Gargoyle or DRW+Hysteria. The ghoul is nice for leveling but not nearly as important end-game.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22219607 Sat, 11 Apr 2009 06:27:20 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209566 Leathal : I don't know about patch 3.1 or how it will affect my DK, but I have a Goul build or will have once I am lvl 80.. it's something like 45/0/26

L.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209566 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:30:09 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209315 Archivis : If there aren't dead bodies, don't forget to use your ghoul. You can CE your ghoul for several times the amount of AoE damage of a normal CE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209315 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:44:35 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209272 jokingjimmy : Yes, I agree. DnD really surprises me when I look at my dmg logs. It tends to be up towards the top 3 to 4 dmg items in my rotation. I usually:

IT, PS, Pest, DND, UB, SS, DC (or CE if there are dead bodies). I try to get my diseases spread early for Ebon PB to give my DnD that little extra dmg, which is why it's later in the rotation. I guess getting the ticks in early with starting the rotation with DnD might actually make more sense though. I'll have to try that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209272 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:34:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209148 Archivis : I find that I do extremely well in AoE situations by always keeping D&D up, always using Unholy Blight (but not re-applying it early), always using corpse explosion when available and always have diseases up.

D&D, IT, PS, Pest. Then probably a SS/BB while waiting. Then another D&D and a Pest. Popping CE as needed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209148 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:07:14 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209104 jokingjimmy : Yup. That's basically what I'm thinking for single mobs/bosses, etc.

IT, PS, BS, BS, SS - RP Dump, then SSx3 RP dump.

I'm curious what the aoe rotation will be. I tend to top out DPS on all the aoe pulls, multiple mob pulls (even just two mobs).

In fact, the thing I tend to enjoy most is the multiple mob situations, trash, etc. With that Glyph of Disease in 3.1, it changes my rotation significantly (one blood rune doing the work of an UH and Frost rune? yay!)

I'm trying out a 32/39 dual wield spec for fun right now, but don't think I like it much. Going to go back to my 17/0/54 spec after this weekends raid (final testing lol).

Spreading disease, spreads much joy LOL]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209104 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:58:34 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209084 abg : Thanks. seemed most likely something like that, but sometimes I find myself surprised by what is more optimal (even if by 1-2% more dps).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209084 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:53:38 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209071 Archivis : The 0/10/61 rotation is probably identical to the current 17/0/54 rotation. IT, PS, BS, BS, SS - RP Dump, then SSx3 RP dump.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209071 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:50:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209062 abg : I'm curious: What is your rotation with this? I've done frost and blood dps, but never unholy (tried it 1/2 a level when I was still confused about rotations and stuff.).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209062 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:48:01 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209046 Archivis : The 0/10/61 (varieties) is claimed to be a leading build for DK's right now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22209046 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:43:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22208953 jokingjimmy :
My tentative 3.1 spec:

0/10/61

I wonder what people are thinking of something like this build. I've included the glyph selections in this mmo-champ talent calculator. I've been Unholy ever since lvl 78 and though I've tried other specs (dual wield included) I don't do as well, mainly due to my play style.

By the way, I think there are a couple of UH points that could be moved around based on preference.

Comments are welcome (help me min/max my dps!)

JJ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22208953 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:22:27 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22084435 abg : lol, no, I don't have either. Worth keeping in mind that it's only 1 strike instead of 2 a rotation now, though. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22084435 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:07:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22084096 Archivis : I can't see the mmo champ from work, but that is disheartening regarding Obliterate. Did you have Sigil of Awareness? Did you have 4pc T7?

Fuck blood.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22084096 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:07:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083987 abg : Ok, I just did a test with Obliterate vs. Death Strike. It was 1 simple rotation:

IT > PS > HS > HS > OB/DS > DCx1 or 2.

I used DRW and Hysteria whenver they were up and with full RP (130, talented) as well as Empower Rune Weapon twice. I did it for a total of 35 rotations each (counted by the # of DS/OB hits done, since it's once per rotation, about 6 minutes). These were also tested on lvl 80 training dummies as everyone and their brother were all over the boss level dummies since the servers are still down.

Obliterate averaged a total of 71 more damage than death strike. The overall dps difference between both tests was 8 in favor of obliterate. That is pretty much the damage difference / rotation time (one of either per rotation).

My PTR stats are, completely unbuffed (no horn or anything):

2989 AP
237 Hit (should be misless on lvl 80 dummy)
17 exp
21.52% crit
and using Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver (186.5dps 507-761 dmg) with fallen crusader.
No tier bonuses, no obliterate sigil.

So, obviously there is a lot of room for scaling to take over in favor of one or the other. For someone of my PTR gear level it's negligible with the benefit of Death Strike healing helping in aoe dmg situations.

I'm using Glyph of Dark Death (DC does 15% more dmg), Glyph of Obliterate/Death Strike, and Glyph of Ghoul (didn't use ghoul, though, to keep #'s all mine.)

With the gear above I was doing greater than 2200 dps on the 80 dummy, closer to 2300. With a ghoul I imagine it would easily be over 2500 dps and that's with gear I was still running heroics with.

I used the following spec:

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9684]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083987 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:46:56 EDT Re: Pve dps spec--not tested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083820 anon : Sighh link not reflecting full spec. Heres the correct link.

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9684]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083820 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:21:48 EDT Pve dps spec--not tested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083808 anon : Ive compiled all previous post so new readers can make sence of what i was trying to do. Feel free to comment on spec.

Ive been playing with some specs here to see how i can maximize damage output using single rune abilities. I speced into FS to blow my RP dump on. This spec has no pet nor garg/DrW to get a short boost of dps. This spec is based clearly on burst dps on single target mobs. I put some talent points into chilblains as well for the snare affect to assist bloodstrike damage using bloodstirke glyph. This is clearly a 2h weapon spec. The spec is listed below tell me what you think about it:

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···00301233

105101300000000000000000000000000000000&glyph=031217050104&version=9684

Side note: If bloodstike glyph realy works with heartstike why doesnt blizz simply just add the wording to glyph itself to eliminate doubt or confusion. There is no talk in patch notes that state they plan clearing it up.

When you get the chance take a look. This spec relies on Bloostrike as main source of damage. Your FU abilities would be OBL to convert runes to death runes. With great gear ive seen reports of FS hitting between 5-7k and Heartstrike critting up to 6k, not sure if that is true but if so using FS as a DC dump i think DPS would be great. Iam aware that iam not using heartstrike in this build but the purpose of build is to replicate the damage output from heartstrike using bloodstike. The talents in frost and blood focus on increasing your Bloodstirke damage output. When your Frost and unholy runes are deathrunes you can focus on spamming BS. I got Unbreakable armour for the increase str by 25% for 20 sec. I was bored so figured i play with calculator but i havent personally tested spec.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083808 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:14:36 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083747 abg : That was as of yesterday. Testing a bit more today (right now, actually). I'm not doing 30 minute tests, so it's not as normalized as possible. Closer to 8-10 mins.

Oh, and yay, buy lots of glyphs. Seems odd things like taking a portal to a city or swapping spec w/ dual spec is clearing out major glyphs.

Also, the difference I saw between obliterate and death strike was negligible and arguably made up by having full disease uptime doing dmg.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083747 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:05:27 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083727 Thaler :

said by abg

:

In about 1/2 epics 1/2 blues I found Obliterate w/o the sigil to be slightly more average dmg than Death Strike. I'm not sure, however, how well they scale.

That using the latest changes? (base damage boosted to 75%, improved talent +6% crit)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083727 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:02:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083706 Archivis : I'll have to check it at home, unless you can do it on ptr.wowhead.com

I think we use IE version 2.0 or some shit, MMO champ's talen calculator doesn't load right here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083706 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:00:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083704 abg : In about 1/2 epics 1/2 blues I found Obliterate w/o the sigil to be slightly more average dmg than Death Strike. I'm not sure, however, how well they scale.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083704 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:00:51 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083696 Thaler :

said by Archivis

:

They better make Sigil of Awareness work on Death Strike then, or I'm dumping blood completely. I've been leaning towards frost. May consider Unholy, but only if they fix the "Multiple Unholy DK" bug with the third disease.

Heh, don't have that yet, so I didn't even think about it. Yeah, our one major decent Rune (idol/whatever) only works with Obliterate. With both DS and OB being so close together, I think that would be the only make-or-break decision between either swing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083696 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:59:41 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083690 anon : Sorry about link. give this a try:

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9684]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083690 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:58:35 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083673 Archivis : They better make Sigil of Awareness work on Death Strike then, or I'm dumping blood completely. I've been leaning towards frost. May consider Unholy, but only if they fix the "Multiple Unholy DK" bug with the third disease.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083673 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:56:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083658 Thaler : Well, been out of the PTR world for a while, but just hopped on the notes to scope out the changes.

Yeah, Blizzard definately wants Blood to be using Death Strike over Obliterate in their rotations.

Base damage increased to 75%
Talent increases DS crit by 6%
Glyph increases 2% per 5 runic power again (cap at 25%)
All Obliterate talents now include Death Strike in +damage/crit%

So...
Obliterate: 120% base + 20% glyph = 140%
Death Strike: 75% base + 25% glyph + 30% talent = 130%

Hmph. Looking at the numbers, it's going to be a close subsitution still at this point. However, with every change, they seem to be pushing us to DS/HS. Still going to need to see if the HS disease bonus pushes us to more HS spamming than OB/DS swinging for single-target though.

Though damn. With DRW being 1.5 minute timer, it no longer shares cooldown timer length w/ Hysteria. Guess I'll have to un-macro my DRW+Hysteria+DPS trinket macro and have them as individually activated buttons. One more cooldown duration to juggle/manage I guess.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083658 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:55:13 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083653 Archivis : What build?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083653 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:54:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083643 abg :

said by Seven :

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···on=9684#

This is a link to just the caluclator. You need to copy and paste the link at the top of the page, not in the URL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083643 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:53:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083614 anon : When you get the chance take a look. This spec relies on Bloostrike as main source of damage. Your FU abilities would be OBL to convert runes to death runes. With great gear ive seen reports of FS hitting between 5-7k and Heartstrike critting up to 6k, not sure if that is true but if so using FS as a DC dump i think DPS would be great. Iam aware that iam not using heartstrike in this build but the purpose of build is to replicate the damage output from heartstrike using bloodstike. The talents in frost and blood focus on increasing your Bloodstirke damage output. When your Frost and unholy runes are deathrunes you can focus on spamming BS. I got Unbreakable armour for the increase str by 25% for 20 sec. I was bored so figured i play with calculator but i havent personally tested spec. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083614 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:49:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083598 abg : It seems the new glyph of pestilence/disease doesn't work. I've tried it yesterday and today and it doesn't actually refresh diseases on the current target. :(

I've done some testing and both Death Srike and Obliterate both do more average and max damage than single-target heart strike with diseases up. So, I'd rather drop a heart strike than an Obliterate of possible. :(

As of right now it's IT > PS > HS > HS > OB (or death strike) > RP dump when I'd like to change the 2nd line of the rotation to Pest > HS > OB > OB > RP dump.

It seems to do ok dps...about 2k just repeating line 1, but would probalby see more if I could get line 2 to work. Also, this is with considerably lesser gear than I have on live, so the lower dps makes a bit more sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083598 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:46:28 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083447 Archivis : Can't hit it up from work, however, I have yet to see a single spec that capitalized upon single rune abilities for PVE DPS. In PVP, single rune abilities can be pretty powerful.

Even dualwield relied upon using F/U runes, or turning everything into frost runes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083447 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:24:43 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083318 anon : Ive been playing with some specs here to see how i can maximize damage output using single rune abilities. I speced into FS to blow my RP dump on. This spec has no pet nor garg/DrW to get a short boost of dps. This spec is based clearly on burst dps on single target mobs. I put some talent points into chilblains as well for the snare affect to assist bloodstrike damage using bloodstirke glyph. This is clearly a 2h weapon spec. The spec is listed below tell me what you think about it:

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···on=9684#

Side note: If bloodstike glyph realy works with heartstike why doesnt blizz simply just add the wording to glyph itself to eliminate doubt or confusion. There is no talk in patch notes that state they plan clearing it up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083318 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:03:26 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083048 abg : Even worse than funds was availability. I don't think I've yet to see 2 pages of glyphs for sale on the PVP test realm, horde side. It makes it hard to test if you don't have the resources.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083048 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:20:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083001 Don69Fire : cool. that is a great idea. that way people can do any testing at minimal funds...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22083001 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:15:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082987 abg :

said by Don69Fire

:

what, they are on sale there on the PTR???

Yeah. Only in Dalaran, at the Inscription trainers. Most are inside, but there are 3-4 vendors outside and they are less than 4s each so you can stock up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082987 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:14:00 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082969 Don69Fire : what, they are on sale there on the PTR???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082969 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:10:59 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082914 Archivis : That would be nice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082914 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:03:59 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082911 abg : Glyphs are for sale in Dalaran now at the Inscription hut. 4s each. Makes me wish I could transfer my DK back. :P.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22082911 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:03:08 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22081372 Archivis : I didn't touch the PTR. Despite the amount of time I spend here, I haven't spent as much in-game.

All I really need is 1-2 good evenings, 1000 gold, and a fuckton of glyphs and I'd have the whole DK class figured out again anyways.

Once I saw that they were redesigning the class several times over in a single patch, I decided not to waste my time anymore.

I have some theories in the back of my head, but I'll wait until after the patch hits.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22081372 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:55:58 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22081292 Don69Fire : ok Arch. you had the weekend to play on the PTR. what good and bad news ya got for us. anything new as of late???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22081292 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:15:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22064044 Archivis : not really

SS procs desecration now? Glyph of Blood Boil gets removed? That pretty much puts Unholy in the lead.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22064044 Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:05:41 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22064030 anon : How do the proposed changes affect pvp? Right now, it seems unholy is the default/OP spec. Do any of the other builds look good for pvp in 3.1?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22064030 Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:02:16 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22060369 Archivis : Your link doesn't work.

Also, I haven't "theorycrafted" since the second round of PTR changes so the previous discussion might look awkward now. I figured on just waiting until closer to release time.

I do think its possible that imp unholy presence might edge out with 10% rune regeneration rate + death coil glyph. If you can pump out some mad RP generation... Just need to see.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22060369 Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:53:44 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22060328 anon : Quick question, with your talent tree here »talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614 , assuming you moved 2 points out of Morbidity and put them both into Imp Unholy Presence, wouldn't you get more benefit out of the increased rune regen time, as opposed to 10% extra damage from DC?

That is of course assuming that you would get any DPS benifit from the extra rune regen time, above and beyond what Blood Presence gives of course.

Okay, so its two questions, and the second one probably isnt that short =)

Any thoughts?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22060328 Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:45:56 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013948 Archivis : I can't see it because my work's IE isn't compatable with that site. But from what I can tell, it's a 0/51/20 build. There are some big changes that make using DW less appealing than 2H. Not that DW is going to be complete garbage, it's just going to go down in DPS from what it currently is.

Look at Necrosis. It is only affected by Main Hand damage now. Howling Blast was moved to a 51 pointer, so you can't pick up some of the nicer talents in the Unholy tree that helped. Gargoyle was also moved to a 51 pointer, so you've lost that as well. Killing Machine was normalize to a proc per minute thing, so it's not based upon how fast you hit anymore.

The only thing I could see being beneficial is by being able to have 2 weapon enchants going. I hear cinderglacier is getting a buff.

Either way, I don't see it happening yet, but I'll remain unprejudiced about it until I see it. The razorice/cinderglacier changes/combo may be enough to make them more appealing than crusader for a DW build.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013948 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:54:14 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013874 Draakmaar : Just out of curiosity...

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

I have seen this posted around on the WoW forums as a high DPS spec that would benefit from DW over 2h. I'm not sure that I see how this would be a viable DW spec. I may be missing something. All I can come up with is lots of crits on IT.

Any words of wisdom?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013874 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:46:18 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013711 Thaler :

said by Archivis

:

I will try it in my tests when 3.1 comes out, but I'm just not convinced that a Death Strike/Heart Strike spamming rotation is the way to go.

If I throw in a hug, will that help? :D

Thanks for at least trying it out. I don't have the gear to test it out, but I do have the spare time to play number-crunching theorycrafting. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013711 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:21:58 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013685 Thaler :

said by Krisnatharok

:

As far as I know there is no glyph of heart strike...

Glyph of Blood Strike works with Heart Strike.

said by Krisnatharok

:

I most always get thanked for my blood aura by healers. "ooh thank god you're blood and not unholy."

Kiss that goodbye in 3.1. Apparantly healing the raid for 4% of damage dealt was OP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22013685 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:17:16 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011398 Krisnatharok : I think we have a DK who needs some love.

I most always get thanked for my blood aura by healers. "ooh thank god you're blood and not unholy."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011398 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:43:46 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011392 pwrtoppl :

said by Krisnatharok

:

I just wondered whether it's worth it... I'd rather go with glyphs of Obliterate, Plague Strike, Rune Strike or Scourge Strike.

with dks the only problem is, people arent looking where 10% of their attack power comes from...with abominations might, people happily go on all stoked about their epic dps when they raid...but no one ever pauses and says, thank you death knight for 10% additional attack power which leads to more damage, we owe you on our meters...nope...nothin, but i say thank you to a pally for their gbom...funny how we get nothin.

lol, anyone notice how dks dont get thanked for icy talons or abmos might?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011392 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:39:25 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011323 Krisnatharok : I just wondered whether it's worth it... I'd rather go with glyphs of Obliterate, Plague Strike, Rune Strike or Scourge Strike.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011323 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:54:12 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011297 pwrtoppl :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Lol. So you cast Chains of Ice then HS/BS?

chains of ice? maybe in my pvp set cause its a free cast, but not in a raid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011297 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:28:09 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011256 Krisnatharok : Lol. So you cast Chains of Ice then HS/BS?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011256 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:00:30 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011249 pwrtoppl :

said by Krisnatharok

As to the Blood/Heart Strike glyph being useless...maybe I was just reading old entries on forums, but I thought the momement-imparing effects others stack on bosses counted towards the glyph? (ie. even if a boss is unaffected by the movement speed debuff, the debuff even being up on the boss counts towards the glyph) Maybe things changed.

As far as I know there is no glyph of heart strike...

i think in 3.1 there will be a damage buff for ds, and yes, the current blood strike glyph does apply to heart strike, fyi man :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011249 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:56:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011236 Krisnatharok :

As far as I know there is no glyph of heart strike...
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011236 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:50:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011225 pwrtoppl :

said by Archivis

:

I will try it in my tests when 3.1 comes out, but I'm just not convinced that a Death Strike/Heart Strike spamming rotation is the way to go.

i wont touch blood in 3.1 unless you come up with something that (again) knocks unholy outta the water...but for now, ob seems to whoop ds, now until forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22011225 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:45:01 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22007898 Archivis : I will try it in my tests when 3.1 comes out, but I'm just not convinced that a Death Strike/Heart Strike spamming rotation is the way to go.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22007898 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:19:37 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22007842 Thaler :

said by Riyo :

i just cant see using DS over OB even with the buffs to it, arch is right the only time i ever save up rp is to hyst/drw i couldnt wait for 100/130 RP just to DS.

So you'd RP dump, rather than use your runes as they come off cooldown? Again, with a HS-heavy rotation that Blizz seems intent to shove Blood into, you're not going to see much time to RP dump...maybe one DC, which the next rotation will easily recoup the 40 Runic Energy spent. And, it's only heavy-blood that'll even be considering using DS over OB (need the base +30% damage talent in 3.1 to even possibly come close to OB).

As to the Blood/Heart Strike glyph being useless...maybe I was just reading old entries on forums, but I thought the momement-imparing effects others stack on bosses counted towards the glyph? (ie. even if a boss is unaffected by the movement speed debuff, the debuff even being up on the boss counts towards the glyph) Maybe things changed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22007842 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:05:25 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22006472 anon : i just cant see using DS over OB even with the buffs to it, arch is right the only time i ever save up rp is to hyst/drw i couldnt wait for 100/130 RP just to DS. im 52/19/0 currently, shorter diseases but i spec into icy talons due to the lack of 2 shammys (we have 2 resto but they are never on at the same time 8P) and annihilation for consistent max OB's, i was putting out about 3k dps with 51/13/7, but now pushing 4k as 52/19/0, really wish i had that WF totem could even push it higher 8P. i dont even wanna read anymore threads with ppl posting DS in there rotation 8D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22006472 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:46:20 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22005536 pwrtoppl : after a bit of time, speccing and respeccing, in regards to dual spec (which is nice), i found a really solid 17/2/52 build that arch put up and i tweaked a bit. i wanted to the runic cap cause with the 4 set bonues from t7 and death trance proccing alot, i found myself, capped, or near capped with rp. since i did the rotation with 3 lines, ss produces so much rp, i had to have the cap when the some bosses take to the air (maly) i can do a full rp dump (though im not 100% sold on it) to be honest though, i ended up with an extra point from the whole thing, which i put in wondering plague (could be waste) since pest spreads it anyway...
otherwise, 3.1 looks to really favor an unholy 2hander build (extra points in outbreak make the damage from ps and ss pretty intense)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22005536 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:48:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004963 Krisnatharok : none of the ones I just mentioned.

For DPS I'd recommend major glyphs of Obliterate, Plague Strike, and Rune Strike.

If you are frost, you could use Glyph of Frost Strike.

If you are blood, you can use the upcoming Glyph of DRW (+10 sec).

If you are unholy, you can use glyph of ghoul, or scourge strike. Or Bone Shield (not sure about this one, I've never used the ability).
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004963 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:52:53 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004845 anon : Hey out of all those what do you think would be the best for dps?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004845 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:21:19 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004435 Krisnatharok : Which is pretty much the most useless glyph ever. Although the DK has a lot of major glyphs I could never see using (icebound fortitude, blood boil, chains of ice, dark command)...
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22004435 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:05:25 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002445 Archivis : Not unless I had someone snaring that target for me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002445 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:14:05 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002325 Thaler :

said by Archivis

:

Either way, I'll be testing a HS heavy setup versus an OB heavy setup.

Just thinking about this, is there any way to test your HS heavy setup w/ Glyph of Blood Stike & a snared target? I'd think the extra +20% damage on this strike would put it over the top in terms of DPS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002325 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:52:36 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002257 Archivis : It just upped the healing.

I'm more interested in the other trees at this point. Blood's appeal to me was the simplicity. Now that it has the same 5+ button presses as the other trees, I may look elsewhere. Frost, even though folks are crying nerf, is apparently putting out some sick numbers on the PTR from what I've seen.

Either way, I look forward to trying all the variouos specs/rotations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002257 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:41:19 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002233 Thaler : Actually, looking over the numerical math numbers, the difference between heavy HS & DS vs. heavy Obliterate should be small. So far with the changes to 3.1, Blizzard has made the two methods numerically similar, with just small edges towards the HS/DS method (ie. diseases to full duration, heavy self-heals guaranteeing Blood Gorged to always be up, etc.). Unless Blizzard gives additional +damage tweaks to HS/DS, or nerfs Obliterate (which I hope not - screws up other specs), the difference might be only noticed by the most min/maxing raiders out there.

Blizz certainly is adopting a change to HS/DS though, as Abomination's Might has also been changed to be applied by Death Strike as well.

Don't know what's going on with Bloodworms though. I'd love to see it as a better DPS talent, but not sure if Blizz's latest change just upped the healing done by bloodworms, or increased their damage as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002233 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:36:38 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002170 Archivis : Either way, I'll be testing a HS heavy setup versus an OB heavy setup. I have my thoughts about the results, but honestly won't be able to tell until it happens. Maybe perma ghoul is the deal breaker that has me almost shelving Obliterate. How unfortunate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002170 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:26:12 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002165 abg :

said by Thaler

:

I dunno if you'd want to drop ghoul w/ a Blood-specced DK, especially since you do have access to the perma-ghoul talent.

Ah, good point. I keep thinking in terms of using OB, so if you end up with something like 51/13/7 so you don't eat your diseases w/ OB. If you get perma-ghoul, then yeah, ghoul glyph is potent, and if you are using DS instead of OB, then your diseases should stay up exactly the time you need (21 seconds) before you want to refresh them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002165 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:25:37 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002080 Thaler : I dunno if you'd want to drop ghoul w/ a Blood-specced DK, especially since you do have access to the perma-ghoul talent.

Plus, with the disease +weapon DPS change to the disease bonus on HS, I think Blizz is trying to get Blood DKs to spam HS over Death Strike / Obliterate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002080 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:14:27 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002047 abg : Why would you do IT > PS > HS > HS > HS > HS?

Seems you would rather do HS > Pest (glyphed to refresh dis) > DS > DS (or OB > OB). It seems that swapping to Gyph of Disease and dropping ghoul glyph isn't a hard choice, especially with 1 minute ghouls.

This choice of rotation also assumes 1) that OBx1 > HSx2 AND 2) Either DS is about the same dmg as OB or you specced so that OB doesn't eat diseases.

(and no, I haven't reviewed patch notes since Friday, so I'm sorry if I missed some changes.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002047 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:10:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002007 Thaler : Actually, if your rotation is extended out w/ single-strike abilities (which Blizz is attempting to do by increasing +%-weapon-DPS based disease bonuses), the time you get to perform runic power dumps decreases. I mean, with a rotation of:

IT->PS->HS->HS->DS

You have enough time to peform approximately 1 DC before your runes start activating again, especially after your second rotation of:

IT->PS->HS->HS->HS->HS

Of course, this is if Blizzard makes the extra HS +weapon DPS bonuses outweigh the loss of DPS made on the initial disease setup strokes. However, if Blizz does manage to do this, and you're casting a slew of single-strike moves (rather than the 2xOB->2xHS rotation of today), you'd likely be sitting on capped runic power a good deal of the time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22002007 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:04:32 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001945 Thaler : True enough, especially since they're changing Sudden Doom to be an insta-proc rather than a buff that makes your next DC a freebie.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001945 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:55:03 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001937 Archivis : Yeah but then you sit at RP cap and can't dump, so now what?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001937 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:52:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001906 Thaler : Actually, now that I think about it Arch, I do believe Blizz is trying to move heavy Blood DPS DKs into using Death Strike over Obliterate. With the changes being made, I could easily see DS catching up, or outperforming OB.

OB is 120% melee strike, whereas DS is 60%. However, with the talent changes, Blood DPS DKs (should be) sporting an extra +30% damage on Death Strike and +30 max runic energy (2 point tier 1 frost talent). Now, Obliterate's Glyph adds +20% damage to OB, but Death Strike's glyph adds a maximum of +52% damage to DS (+2% per 5 runic energy w/ max 130 runic energy).

I dunno though. Don't have any gear to test it out, but in the math sense, they do seem about equal:

Obliterate: +120% base +20% glyph = +140%
Death Strike: +60% base +30% talents +52% glyph = +142% ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22001906 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:48:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990339 Krisnatharok : I guess the utility of dropping IT and PS will be seen in how much they boost the dmg of diseases, and especially blood boil...

lol.... "Your crit bonus damage goes up 50% for every disease on a target." I can wish...
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990339 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:44:42 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990312 pwrtoppl : nah man, i see what you mean, but im not that "disease" friendly, and im makin all the other dks in my guild feel bad for tryin to dps...when it comes to aoes, i just do the normal obx2 hsx2 dcx2 and let the others take down the spider trash in naxx...ive been using army of the dead more often recently and its a nice tool to use to bump up the dps charts...but it actually has to be channeled, and that imo cuts on your total dps, so hit raise dead, army of the dead, let someone bloodlust, tap rune blade and hystaria and proceed to the top of the charts

and for some reason, the laziest rotation in the world seems to be getting the most love (until 3.1 in the next months) i actually could make a macro and spam the $hit outta the rotation...but i need to remind myself im still human and need something to preoccupy my shortened mind spam]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990312 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:25:11 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990270 Krisnatharok : FIll your downtime with death coils or do this so you don't consume your diseases:

IT > PS > HS > HS > DS > DC > DC > HS > HS > OB

I don't like using obliterate until the diseases are almost gone. If you build a macro and mash it fast you can get the obliterate in right before the diseases go off. Or you can use blood tap to spread to another and spread back at the cost of a HS.

Or maybe it's late and this makes no sense. You've been warned.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990270 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 02:46:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990205 pwrtoppl :

said by AKDK :

after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz

uh, i didnt get...did you mean that as an insult? cause i got lost somewhere when you said dks are doin less then 2k on raids...

anyway, i do agree that dks should stay outta the aoe stuff when trash is pulled, unless a spriest uses devouring plague and a dk spreads it...im not sayin dks are bad at aoe, but the current blood build means i just need to spend more time bull$hittin on vent while trash is downed]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21990205 Sat, 28 Feb 2009 02:12:14 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21986577 anon : Kris i seem to have 1 or 2 seconds of downtime sometimes to usually because i screwed my rotation and to fill the gaps i either blow a blood tap or summon my goul lol, usuallly if theres nothing i can do ill eat an auto attack and hope for a crit. btw i went 52/19/0 for my blood spec, we have 3 shamys and only 1 seems to be on when we raid, i didnt think my numbers were as good when i dropped 19 in unholy, annihaltion is just broken op. just grabed almost full 25 off tier on tuesday so thursdays raid i was hitting from 3-5k which was damn sweet since im still using titansteel destroyer (lol) i spiked to 6k on the aoe drake but hyst/drw was up mirror grim toll and crusader runeweapon procd at once so that was interesting. i didnt really aoe at all stayed on boss the whole way. was curious arch if you tried 52/19/0 against 51/13/7. was gonna do 51/13/7 but the lack of imp IT or WT chances were to great

one other thing i procd more sudden dooms with 2/5 then my buddy with 5/5 against saph and kt combined, dunno how many you use but i dont feel 5/5 is worth it.

im about to start surgery in a min so i was rushing this post i know im rambling 8D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21986577 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:26:51 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21985189 anon : after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz, as to arch...i love you, i think im gonna stay blood, i do 1- 1.5kdps more on bosses then i did with unholy, plus theres just so many classes with aoe whats 1 less on trash 8P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21985189 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:49:41 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973337 pwrtoppl : :huh:

arch, im hurt man...bleeding
:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973337 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:17:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973260 Archivis : But you suck at this game :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973260 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:00:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973221 pwrtoppl : after reading all the changes, plus your theorycraft, and glyph changes, i think unholy will take the cake with a decent set of gear and a good weapon

arch, im going to throw down on your unholy build on ptr and let you know what i think]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973221 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:48:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973210 Archivis : I went to bed after I posted this, so I'll try and respond to all of the posts.

Death Strike will always be used for healing. I still cannot see it overtaking Obliterate or Scourge Strike, even with its damage bonuses increased. It could replace Obliterate in PVP however.

Bloodworms is like 50DPS if the worms stay alive. They provide extra healing in a stream, but for that "oh god i need heals now" kind of thing, blood worms usually don't help and that's where Rune Tap comes in (like when i accidentally eat a tail swipe on Sapphiron and get punted across the room).

Dandy: There is no best yet.

RP Dumps for Blood are going to be Death Coil unless saving up for DRW. Unholy RP Dumps will be Death Coil, Unholy Blight or possibly Corpse Explosion. Frost RP Dumps are always Frost Strike.

As Unholy, Obliterate should never be on your bars. Take it off or I will bitchslap you. Deathstrike should be used ONLY to heal and that's if you don't trust your healers or know your healers won't get to you.
--
I melt faces.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21973210 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:42:25 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972644 Krisnatharok : There's some better strategies out there than just spamming whatever is not on cooldown:

I use the following:

Single Target

1. Icy Touch,
2. Plague Strike (these two put DoT diseases on the target, so start out with these to get max dps),
3. Blood Strike (does more dmg based on diseases),
4. Blood Strike,
5. Death Strike (to heal you), or Obliterate (if target is near death--consumes diseases but does more damage.
6. Rune Strike as proc
7. RP dump

So that would be: IT, PS, BSx2, DS or Obl, RP dump, rune strike when it procs

Multiple Targets
1. Icy Touch
2. Plague Strike
3. Pestilence (this spreads both diseases to all nearby targets)
4. Blood Boil (AoE)
5. Blood Tap (refreshes a blood ruin instantly)
6. Blood Boil
7. Death Strike or Obl on your first target
8. RP dump on remaining targets

Alternatively, you could do this:

1. Death and Destruction (AoE)
2. Icy Touch
3. Plague Strike
4. Pestilence
5. Blood Tap
6. Blood Boil
7. RP dump on remaining targets

I'm not the greatest on maxing dps on multiple targets... I always feel like I'm missing something. 7 GCD's plus one or two death coils gives me several seconds of dead time. anyone have any thoughts on a better multiple targets cycle?

But anyways, there's a starter.
--
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972644 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:58:35 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972633 Don69Fire :

said by Krisnatharok

:

BS = Blood Strike.

What was your question?

ty, that answered it.

where does OB ang DS come in to play with unholy. i uauslly spamthem too when they are up as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972633 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:52:58 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972627 Don69Fire :

said by Krisnatharok

:

There's a difference between an ability CD and a rune CD.

You have six ruins total, two of each blood, frost, and unholy (not counting talents that convert a certain kind to a death ruin, which is a wildcard ruin).

Once you use any ruin, it takes 12 seconds to refresh. So you can do two blood strikes as fast as your GCD, but then you can't do another attack that requires a blood ruin until your two blood ruins refresh.

ok that makes sense. i have gotten to lvl 70 in about 2 days of play i think now. it is so easy. i just spam any button that isn't on cooldown and go from there.

well now i know... thanks...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972627 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:51:07 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972621 Krisnatharok : BS = Blood Strike.

What was your question?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972621 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:49:08 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972617 Don69Fire : also i know what some are bothers i am a little confused...

IT, icy touch
PS,plague strike
BS,
BS,
SS, scourge strike
RP Dump

SSx3 - scourge strike
RP Dump]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972617 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:48:10 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972613 Krisnatharok : There's a difference between an ability CD and a rune CD.

You have six ruins total, two of each blood, frost, and unholy (not counting talents that convert a certain kind to a death ruin, which is a wildcard ruin).

Once you use any ruin, it takes 12 seconds to refresh. So you can do two blood strikes as fast as your GCD, but then you can't do another attack that requires a blood ruin until your two blood ruins refresh.
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972613 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:46:21 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972594 Don69Fire : ok. i am doing all those. if it is off cooldown i spam it. but every so often. esp if i am full on rune power. the abilities are grey in color and i cannot use them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972594 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:41:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972584 Krisnatharok : Locks out abilities? Lol.

Rune dumps are death coil, rune strike, frost strike, heart strike, scourge strike, etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972584 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:37:52 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972573 Don69Fire : what are you doing as a rune dump. i keep seeing this. and i keep my rune tank full so to speak. and i think it locks outt abilities because of that. how do i rune dump please.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972573 Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:35:47 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972078 Krisnatharok :

said by AB_Lazy :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal.

Deep blood gets a perma-pet? I missed something here....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21972078 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:50:55 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971940 anon :

said by Krisnatharok

:

Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal.

True, but going so deep into Blood for DPS, wouldn't you want to glpyh for something else than rune tap?

Glyph of Death Strike / Glyph of Obliterate
Glyph of Blood/Heart Strike
Glyph of ...eh, ghoul? (seeing as how deep blood now gets perma-pet as well)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971940 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:30:33 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971909 Dandy : soo.. what is the best PVE dps spec then?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971909 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:23:19 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971898 Krisnatharok : Rune tap also increases survivability and when you get the glyph it heals your party for 10%... not insane, but it is a party-wide heal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971898 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:22:00 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971872 Ipone : I enjoy having runetap and would take it over bloodworms. Its great for fights like saph where your taking constant 900+'s and it gives a little more survivability if i want to do a bit of pvp on the side]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971872 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:18:15 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971855 anon : Plus, with the changes to Blood, you have about 4 talent points that aren't going to the staple DPS talents. Would you think 3/3 Bloodworms would be a better replacement for Rune Tap?

I know Bloodworms is weaksauce compared to most of the tree, but it is additional DPS. I don't know exactly how Rune Tap helps you deal more DPS, other than bailing your butt out when you're standing in the fire you shouldn't be standing in.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971855 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:14:57 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971819 anon : Er...by rune, I mean glyph. The changes to Death Strike Glyph does increase the DPS of the strike even further...but not sure if it'll ever overtake an Obliterate.

...plus it really makes me wonder why they'd insert that new +30% DS talent so heavy into Blood if you weren't supposed to use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971819 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:08:29 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971808 anon : With the changes to the Death Strike rune + talents, do you think DS will replace Obliterate for heavy-blood invested DKs?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971808 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:06:32 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971693 Archivis : Doesn't matter dude. Leveling is such a joke. I'd just go Unholy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971693 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:45:32 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971642 Krisnatharok : And what's a good leveling build? I.E. for the DKs starting at lvl 58 and under-geared until they get to 80? Is it still balanced enough to be up to their playing pref?
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971642 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:38:36 EDT Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971568 Archivis : »forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa···71&sid=1

Cross-posted on the WoW DK forums so I can get flamed.
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I melt faces.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971568 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:28:58 EDT Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971325 Archivis : Alright,

I've been reading up on the various new specs/glyphs/spell changes/etc for DK's and I've been mulling over some new ideas.

My first impression, based upon the new trees is that Unholy is insane. The bonus damage this spec affords as well as other goodies is going to put Unholy over the top.

First off... dualwield is dead. They killed dualwield. Anything you'd accomplish with DW, you can do with a 2H.

Second, keep an eye on Death Strike. It's possible that Death Strike could be extremely lethal with the bonus in first-tier Unholy and later-tier Blood. This could serve to be deadly in PVP. With Sigils and set bonuses not having an effect on Death Strike, I sincerely doubt it'll be a good PVE ability (aside from healing on bad fights). Glyph of Death Strike would be pretty interesting though. It could be a primary strike in PVP.

Here's what I suggest:
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

14/2/55 (Old Version, 17/0/54)

You're giving up 1% crit and some minor AP (3/5 Bladed Armor) and instead, going to pick up 30 additional RP cap, and all the goodies in Unholy. Some of that shit looks insane. This scales with gear and will perform better with 4pcT7 and once again, Sigil of Awareness (Sigil applies to base damage, and now there's more multipliers). Additional disease damage length means that with the Glyph of SS, you may only ever need to apply diseases once.

Rotation remains the same.

IT, PS, BS, BS, SS - RP Dump
SSx3 - RP Dump

--------------------

51/13/7
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

Important Glyphs: Pestilence, Blood Strike, Obliterate
(Pestilence will refresh diseases on your primary target)

Rotation:

Line1:IT, PS, OB, HS, HS - RP Dump
Line2:OBx2, HS, Pest - RP Dump
Line3:OBx2, HSx2 - RP Dump

Lead in on line 1. Move onto Line 2. Then Line 3. From there it's 2-3-2-3-etc.

1-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-boss dead

On AoE packs, you'll still do the same rotation. I fear that diseaseless blood is most likely dead at this point. Fortunately, you can apply diseases on a boss and as long as you pop pestilence before they fall off, you could do nearly the same "no disease" rotation for the entire boss fight at the cost of 1 Heart Strike every other rotation.

-----
51/2/18 (Some flexibility)
No disease Heart Strike Spammer

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

This is a good mention for those who may lack the 4pct7 bonus or the Sigil of Awareness. Hell, maybe it might allow for other gear options if this becomes superior. There are a lot of flex points in this build that were placed as filler points. Personal preference can be used where you see fit (non-DPS talents).

Rotation:
OBx2, HSx2 - RP Dump
HSx6 - RP Dump
(Blood Presence)

With Sudden Doom no longer causing screwups on rotations, you're free to do your rotation without weaving in procs. Heart Strike got a buff on non-crit damage and a slight buff on crit damage. All of this bonus damage is non-reliant on diseases (even though they help). This build is worth testing, but I can't see it taking off. Perma Ghoul is nice, even if it has less survivability.
-----------
Frost 17/51/3
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathkn···ion=9614

Fluffer points in frost has been reduced, so you can accumulate all of your points for about the same price. You can choose Deathchill over Hungering Cold for personal preference (but minimal DPS increase)

Rotation:

Line 1:Blood Tap ITx2, PS, BS, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Line 2:IT, Pest, OB, OB(Rime Proc) - RP Dump
Repeat Line 2

Rime procs, you pop Howling Blast and continue Frost Striking. You trade heart strike damage for the ability to constantly have disesaes on every target and to keep plague strike damage on your target at all times, which should boost Obliterate Damage.

What's your thoughts? Also, feel free to correct me on anything I might have mixed up (or need to clarify). I'll edit as need be.
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I melt faces.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21971325 Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:45:27 EDT